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Who are the real-world Illuminati?
Find out @ saveanilluminati.com

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When I tell people my story

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they don't believe it.

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I guess I wouldn't believe
the story

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if someone else were telling
it, but, I'm telling it

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and it's true, every word of it.

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It started when I was born,
56 years ago,

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but the real story
began when I was 19 years old

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and I went to college.

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"Since You've Been Gone"

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It was 1980.
It was the first day of school

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at Sullivan County Community
College up in the Catskills,

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about a 110 miles
from where I grew up.

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So, I drove up there alone.

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I used to have this really
old car. It was a Volvo.

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And it was a 1970 Volvo.

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Had like 130,000 miles on it.

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And the car was burgundy
and the hood was green.

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Actually, the car was called
the Old Bitch.

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But the Old Bitch got me there.

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Sullivan was a community college.

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This wasn't some longstanding
institution of higher learning.

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All these station wagons
are dropping kids off.

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I was nervous,
I'd just gotten to the school,

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I didn't know anybody.
I was a freshman.

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I was never the captain of the
football team in high school,

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so I was never really like popular.

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So, I'm walking around
trying to find where my dorm is.

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Meanwhile all these people
are coming up to me

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saying "Hi, how are you?"

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"How was your summer?"

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"Mine was great.
How was yours?"Super."

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Why are they asking me
how my summer was? I don't know.

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Everybody's being
extremely friendly to me

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and they're going
out of their way to do it.

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I don't mean just a 'hi',

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I mean, claps on the back
and high fives.

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And I was a little hit
bewildered by this

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because no one gets
this kind of a welcome

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on their first day at school.

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And girls were kissing me,

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like fully kissing me saying,
"I'm so glad you came hack."

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And I was saying 'thank you'
and 'hello' back

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but I had never been there
before and I didn't know them.

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It was bizarre.

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And the next thing I heard
from right behind me.

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'Welcome back. Eddy!"

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"Eddy! How are you'!
Eddy, hi!"

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I'm like, "My name's not Eddy.
I don't know

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'what you're talking about.
I just got up here."

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"Sure, Eddy, you're really funny,

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'you're really funny,
real funny."

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I'm like, "I'm not Eddy.
I don't know who Eddy is."

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'Welcome hack, Eddy",
they were all saying.

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I finally made it
to this dump of a dorm room.

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Before a minute had gone by...

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"Who now? Who now
is gonna come to find Eddy?"

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I had been at college

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the previous year
with Eddy, and I knew

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that he wasn't
coming back to school.

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As soon as this guy
turned around, I...

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I was, I was actually shaking.

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I was... I know all color
from my face dropped

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cos I knew it was his double.

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He had the same grin, the same
hair, the same expressions.

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It was his double.

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And I see this guy's face
and he's like...

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just standing there.

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The first thing out of my mouth
was 'Were you adopted?"

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Er... and I was like, "Yes."

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I said, "ls your birthday
July 12th?" He. Said yes.

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I was like, "July 12th 1961."

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"My God", I said,
"You're not gonna believe this."

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I said, "You have a twin
brother. You have a twin."

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"My God."

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I said. "Come with me."

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And the two of us are crammed
into this phone booth.

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Shoulder to shoulder
and you know, we had to like,

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close the door of the phone booth.

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And I'm trying to put the coins in

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and they keep falling on the floor

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and Bobby's picking up the coins.

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And he calls this guy
and he's like,

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"Hey, Eddy, you're not
gonna believe this,

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"you're not gonna believe this.

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"Eddy, Eddy, you are not
gonna believe this."

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This guy's more hysterical
than I am like weirded out.

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"Eddy, you are not
gonna believe this."

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So I was like,
"Give me the phone."

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So I'm like, "Hi, Eddy?"
"Yes."

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But it was my voice
that said, "Yes."

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And I said, "Hi, Eddy,
my name is Robert Shafran

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"and, er... I'm meeting
all these people

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"who say I'm you."

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And he said, “-yeah,
I've been getting some calls."

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I said, "Were you adopted?"
and he said, "Yes."

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And I said,
"When was your birthday?"

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"July 12th."

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And I said, "Do you know what
the name of the agency was?"

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And he said, "No, hold on."

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And I heard him go like, "Mom?"

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And he came back and he said,
"Louise Wise Services."

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Sometimes when you
are just having a dream,

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you know this can't be real,
this can't be real.

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But you know there's nothing
you can do to stop it,

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start it, change it,
you just go with it

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and that's what I was doing.

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I just wanted to see
what was gonna happen next.

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Now I'm like, let's go.
Let's go to LI.

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So we got into the Old Bitch.

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It was about 9 o'clock at night

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and it's about a two-hour ride.

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And we were speeding on route 17.

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We were going 100 miles
per hour, perhaps more.

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We were speeding.

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We're driving as fast
as this car would go.

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It was shaking.

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And we got pulled over
by a New York State trooper.

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And as I roll down my window
there's this gigantic cop

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with like the sunglasses
even though it's night time.

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And a the big hat.

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He said, "You know,
I clocked you at 88 in a 50.

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"Son, you better have
a really good reason."

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And I was like,

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"Well, Officer, you're never
gonna believe this."

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The two of us are like
yelling at this guy.

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"You, you don't know,

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'this guy, this guy
has a twin brother,

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"he was adopted and we're going
to Long Island to go see..."

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And, and, and the guy was,
"Yeah, right." You know.

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"Here's, here's your ticket
have a good day."

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And on to Long Island we went.

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So, we got there.

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But it's like,
the middle of the night.

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And it's this really
quiet neighborhood.

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So, we get out of the car.

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And walk up this little path
to the house.

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And the lights were on
in the house.

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And I reached out
to knock on the door

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and as I reached out
to knock on the door, it opens.

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And there I am.

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His eyes were my eyes
and my eyes were his eyes

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and it's true.

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They looked exactly alike.

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They're duplicates of each other.

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There was no doubt in my mind
that they were twins.

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He's going, "My God."
I'm going, "My God."

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He's going, "Holy crap."
I'm going, "Holy crap."

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They just looked at each other
and they moved...

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Every time Bobby moved
his head, Eddy moved

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and then Eddy would move
and then Bobby would move,

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like, like they were
looking at a mirror.

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It was the weirdest thing.

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It was like the world faded away,

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and it was just me and Eddy.

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So, I'm in the newsroom,
it's the middle of a busy day,

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we got a call from somebody

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who says they have an
amazing story to tell us,

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we are not gonna
believe this story,

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and my first reaction,
"It's a hoax."

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So, I told our reporter,
"I wanna rent a plane."

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In those days we had
enough money to do this.

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"I wanna rent a plane, I wanna
see these two kids face to lace

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"or I don't believe this."

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We flew the journalist up
to Sullivan Community College

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and he called me and he said,
"Howie, it's true, it's true.

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And I remember saying, "My
God, this is a great story.

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"This is a memorable
heart-warming story."

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And then the story went from
being amazing to incredible, OK,

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from amazing to incredible.

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I was on the New York Subway.

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Quite late at night.

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Read an article about two boys
who found each other.

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That were twins separated at birth

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and found each other

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at Sullivan County
Community College.

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There was no picture.
But the story was fascinating.

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I came home, and went to sleep.

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My mother came into the room

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and said, "Wake up, wake up,
I have to show you something."

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And she shows me a newspaper

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with a picture of two boys

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and I had to like, focus
and I looked at the photograph

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and I said, "Is that David?"

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And she's like, "No,
but look at the hands.“

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And I was like, "Holy mackerel.
This is beyond amazing."

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It was a picture
in the newspaper of two guys,

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in the "Post" and
I picked up the picture

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and I looked at it,

190
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and I was like in shock,

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cos the two guys in the "Post"
looked exactly, exactly

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like, like my friend David.
I stared at it.

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00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,636
And it wasn't even just
the look on their face.

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It was the way that they
were holding their hands.

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They have these big meaty hands.
And David always had this,

196
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,956
these hands
that looked like baseball mitts.

197
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,155
And when I saw their hands,
I just knew that this is David.

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It was just a normal day.

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I got to school,
ran into my buddy Alan.

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00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,673
He said, "David,
take a look at this.“

201
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,155
And he's got a copy
of the "New York Post“.

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00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,350
And, er...
he opens it up

203
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,277
and says, "Look at this.

204
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,876
"Look, look familiar?"
Something to that effect.

205
00:12:07,891 --> 00:12:10,360
And I said, "Yeah, right. Sure."

206
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,076
But then we looked at it
a little bit more closely.

207
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,589
It was an article, it said,

208
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,951
"Twins reunited
after more than 19 years."

209
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,470
And it had a picture of two
of what looked like me.

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It all started to sink in.

211
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,038
"Holy shit, my God.

212
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,674
"Do you? This is un...
this is not believable,

213
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,030
"this is, this is unbelievable.
Wow!

214
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,117
"This is big, this is serious,

215
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,039
"this is just not some kind
of crazy coincidence.

216
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,356
"This is not a minor resemblance.

217
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,277
'This is real, this is happening,

218
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:50,913
"this is really,
really serious."

219
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I ditched classes and got home.

220
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My mother was waiting
at the kitchen table

221
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:58,555
with a cup of coffee.

222
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,716
And I said, "Mom, you see this?"

223
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,674
She said, "You see this?" And
we kinda exchanged newspapers.

224
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,434
It had, "... born Long Island
Jewish Hospital."

225
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,994
"July 12th, 1961."

226
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,715
And it was Louise Wise
adoption agency.

227
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,718
I mean, I always knew growing
up that I was adopted,

228
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,876
My parents were always
open about it.

229
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,038
But it said Eddy Galland
of New Hyde Park, Long Island,

230
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,356
Robert Shafran
of Scarsdale, New York.

231
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,834
I remember it said,

232
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,793
"Son of prominent Scarsdale
physician Mort Shaiman"

233
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,956
and, er... my first thought,
I said,

234
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,991
"He's got the wealthy family.

235
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:38,200
"That SOB's probably driving
a Benz! He got a doctorate!"

236
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,751
And I remember being
with David in the kitchen.

237
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,196
We were like, really nervous.

238
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,278
I mean we were, you know,
jumping around, it was...

239
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,915
You know, we were 19 years old.
I mean this was surreal.

240
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,431
And David picked up the phone
and he called Information,

241
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,273
and he reached Eddy's mom.

242
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,197
And I said, "Hi, is Eddy home?"

243
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,153
She says, "No,
who's calling, please?"

244
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,759
And I thought, 'OK,

245
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,467
“now I've gotta go into
this whole thing on the phone."

246
00:14:07,482 --> 00:14:11,558
I said, "Well, my name
is David Kellman,

247
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,592
"and I was born July 12th 1961

248
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,756
"and I'm looking at a newspaper

249
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,351
"and, er... basically I think
I'm looking at two of me.

250
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,437
"I think I might be the third."

251
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,279
And I think she dropped
the phone, actually.

252
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,836
And I remember hearing
her voice over the phone,

253
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,190
"My God, they're coming out
of the woodwork!"

254
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,869
It was a miracle.

255
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,309
The first time
that the boys met together,

256
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,512
the three together was at my house.

257
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,039
And the three of them ended up

258
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,789
like puppies wrestling
on the floor.

259
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,595
It was the most incredible...

260
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,392
it was the most incredible thing.

261
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,317
They belonged to each other.

262
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,279
They knew each other. There
was no formal introduction.

263
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,597
I mean, when you meet somebody
for the first time

264
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,674
you don't end up rolling around
on the floor with them.

265
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,429
It was truly not fully believable.

266
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,557
Even though it was happening
it was still surreal.

267
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,477
You think you're dreaming.

268
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,114
You're looking and
you're still "My God."

269
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,878
You look at the other one,
"My God."

270
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,877
And then you realize
that they're looking at you

271
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,638
or everybody else
is looking at you too.

272
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,240
To have all three of them
in the house at one time...

273
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,320
It... it was
really madness.

274
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,196
My emotions were shock,
shock and more shock.

275
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,757
I mean, I can't explain it,

276
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,400
I haven't got the terminology.

277
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,834
One of our reporters came
running over to me and said

278
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,076
'You're not gonna believe this,

279
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,353
"you are not gonna believe
the call we just got.

280
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,869
"You know the two kids
on the front page today?

281
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,230
"Well, there's a third."

282
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,874
They even moved the same way.

283
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,834
All of us just sat back

284
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,750
and watched three separate
lives becoming one.

285
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,280
The way I put it was

286
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,755
I looked more like Eddy
than I did David,

287
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,030
and more like David
than I did Eddy,

288
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,072
and more like either of them
than they did like each other.

289
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,872
Does that make sense?

290
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,198
And then we started
comparing notes.

291
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,800
What do 19-year-olds compare?

292
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:53,431
Booze, cigarettes, food,
women, music, cars.

293
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,791
I had just brought a brand new
Mercury Capri, which I loved.

294
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,630
And Bobby had this,
Maroon beat up old Volvo

295
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,796
with cracked leather seats
and I'm thinking,

296
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,630
"Son of a prominent
Scarsdale physician?"

297
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,795
I think it was Eddy who said

298
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,433
right at the beginning,

299
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,919
"I don't know if this will turn
out to be great or terrible."

300
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,591
So, there was always a question
mark, a big question mark,

301
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,110
about where the story
eventually was going.

302
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,198
We didn't realize from then on

303
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,392
just how much
things were going to change.

304
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,636
'Now one of the most remarkable
stories I've seen in sometime:

305
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:37,715
'a story about triplets.

306
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,600
'Eddy and Robert and David
reunited after 19 years.'

307
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,870
'We have a story about triplets
that gives new meaning

308
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,433
'to the phrase
long lost brothers.'

309
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,716
We went on everything.
Everything.

310
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,353
'You're not seeing double

311
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,152
'you are perhaps in a moment
going to be seeing triple.'

312
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,474
'I don't know who's who here.

313
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,832
'Come on out here, gentlemen,
come on out.'

314
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,473
You just had to stop
what you're doing

315
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,872
and watch them
on every different show.

316
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,480
It became a circus,
it became a media circus.

317
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,399
Talk about viral, I mean this
was... it was viral even then.

318
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,716
'You guys have been on the
front page of every newspaper

319
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,956
- 'in the world.'
- True.'

320
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,792
"People Magazine", 'Time Magazine",

321
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,117
even the "New York Times",
"Good Housekeeping".

322
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,554
'David, let's begin with you.

323
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:30,860
'Which one': David,
I keep forgetting?'

324
00:18:30,875 --> 00:18:32,159
- 'You're Edward?'
- 'Right!

325
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,429
'OK, who are you,
are you David?'

326
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:34,754
- 'I'm Bobby.'
- 'You're... I'm sorry.

327
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,434
'You're Robert, all right.
Robert and Edward.'

328
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,710
'Come on.'

329
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,709
ll was a fairy tale story.

330
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,196
And people need to hear
wonderful things.

331
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,231
'These three young men,

332
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,477
'they're all seated
in the same position.'

333
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,753
It was kind of amazing.
They really were strangers.

334
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:01,995
They looked identical to each other

335
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,838
but they were strangers, right?

336
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,325
You know, they really
didn't know one another.

337
00:19:05,340 --> 00:19:08,358
But their behaviors
were so similar.

338
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,040
'Our lives are parallel
to a phenomenal degree.

339
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,991
'It's, it's ridiculous.'

340
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:14,519
'We're all the same,

341
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:15,905
'as soon as we started
discussing our personalities.'

342
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,698
'Personalities are the same,
our gestures are the same.'

343
00:19:17,713 --> 00:19:18,840
'We always talk
at the same time.'

344
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,678
'I'll start a sentence
and he'll finish it.'

345
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,080
'We all like
Chinese load.'

346
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:22,916
'You were all
wrestlers at one time?'

347
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,280
'Yes.'

348
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:25,728
'You all smoke the same brand
of cigarettes?'

349
00:19:25,743 --> 00:19:26,994
'Yes.'

350
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,678
'What kind
of cigarettes do you smoke?'

351
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:29,710
'Marlboro!

352
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,080
'Do you all smoke
the same brand?'

353
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,554
'Yes.'

354
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,240
- 'Do you like the same colors?'
- Wes.'

355
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,157
'Yeah, I was curious,
how's their taste in women,

356
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,760
- 'is it similar?'
- 'Yes. Definitely.'

357
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,710
Il seems they all liked
older women.

358
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,876
'Somebody said
you all liked older women.'

359
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,399
'Well...'

360
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,191
'Another astonishing coincidence

361
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,392
'is that each of the brothers
grew up with an adoptive sister,

362
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,273
'all the girls
now 21 years old.'

363
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:03,872
'I can't get over it,
I tell you.'

364
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,672
'An extraordinary string
of coincidences

365
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:06,755
'you all have to agree,
right?'

366
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,029
'It's beautiful.'

367
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,354
'You say you love each other,

368
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,141
'but you're only known each
other for such a short time.'

369
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,679
'Doesn't matter, I've known
them my whole life.'

370
00:20:12,694 --> 00:20:14,512
'How long did it take for you
to have that feeling?'

371
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,880
'Like that.'

372
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,514
They were more like clones

373
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,110
than they were like brothers.

374
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,949
It was just absolutely
astounding because they grew up

375
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,389
it would appear to be
pretty different households.

376
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,509
We'd been adopted
by a blue-collar family,

377
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,076
a middle-class family
and a more affluent family.

378
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,309
Bobby's parents, Bobby's father
was a medical doctor.

379
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,473
And his mother was an attorney.

380
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,352
So they were very well educated
and they were living

381
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,594
in one of the most prestigious
areas of the country.

382
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:10,230
Eddy's father was a teacher,
he had a college education.

383
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,432
And they lived
in what would be considered

384
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,551
a middle-class neighborhood.

385
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:25,280
My family on paper
were the least educated,

386
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,235
they were immigrants, English
was a second language to them,

387
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,476
they had a little store,

388
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:37,469
they were the more
blue-collar family.

389
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,591
But my father was just

390
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,396
this incredibly generous warm guy.

391
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,274
David's father, Richard was,
was larger than life.

392
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,996
If you could imagine this guy
was a big guy,

393
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,710
with a big cigar always
hanging out of his mouth.

394
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,359
We referred to him as 'bubala'

395
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,277
He was Bubala.

396
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,073
If you know Yiddish,
'bubala' it's like love,

397
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:10,272
it's hugging and it's kissing.

398
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,436
We spent more time at David's house

399
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,790
than any place else.

400
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,596
Bubala celebrated us
like no other person.

401
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,472
He said, "I have two more sons."

402
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,679
When the boys found each other

403
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,519
it just sort of happened

404
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,994
then and there.

405
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,838
Here is this wonderful story

406
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,632
and that's it.

407
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,513
Nobody questioned what was going on

408
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,278
except the parents of course.

409
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,872
When the families met up
the first time

410
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,878
there was great anger
in all at them

411
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,356
about the fact that the parents
had never been told

412
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,391
that there were two other children.

413
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,634
They didn't tell us
a word when we were adopting.

414
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,830
We knew nothing about the other two

415
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,351
until, er... the boys met
at, at school,

416
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,596
that was 20 years later.

417
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:18,240
The first thing
that hit me was what they lost.

418
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,716
I believe they were six months
old when they were separated.

419
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,435
If you imagine those three
little bodies lying together

420
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:31,749
and suddenly the coldness
of being alone in a crib.

421
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,272
It's a terrible deprivation.

422
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,397
I remember being told by my mother

423
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,439
when I was a baby that I would
slam my head against the wall,

424
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,437
I would basically knock myself out.

425
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,994
My mother said
that I would bang my head

426
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,474
on the inside of the crib...

427
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,270
and I would hold my breath
until I passed out.

428
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,394
I believe it was absolutely
separation anxiety

429
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,876
All of us had been adopted
from Louise Wise Services.

430
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,911
'Louise Wise Services,

431
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,352
'the New York institution
founded back in 1915

432
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,232
'overseen by a board of directors

433
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,998
'drawn from New York City's

434
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,953
'social, financial
and political elite.'

435
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,517
They were the pre-eminent
adoption agency

436
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,793
on the East Coast
for Jewish babies in particular.

437
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,354
That was the place to go.

438
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,710
What we have felt

439
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,671
at Louise Wise Services

440
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,199
where I have been active

441
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,232
for a great longtime,

442
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,272
is that adoptive parents
should be told

443
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,871
as much about the background
of a child as is reasonable.

444
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,879
Our parents they, they, they
wanted answers, they were angry.

445
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,879
And they arranged a meeting
and they... the six of them

446
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,915
went in to Louise Wise Agency
to try to get some answers

447
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,952
in terms of piecing together
what happened.

448
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:27,755
There was a meeting with
the top brass at the agency.

449
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,552
And they were asked,

450
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,718
"Is it true that you separated
these boys at birth?"

451
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,470
And they said, 'Yes, we did."

452
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,712
Why?

453
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,830
How could you not tell us?

454
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,599
What did you do?

455
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,950
Why and how could you?

456
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,594
They said the reason was

457
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,352
because it was hard to place
three children in one home.

458
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,437
The parents had been told that

459
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,552
it was in our best interests
that we'd been split up.

460
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,117
That not every parent
would welcome triplets,

461
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,030
and that triplets would be
difficult to place.

462
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,758
Which... I think at that moment
my father blew his stack.

463
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,872
And just said,
"We would've taken all three.

464
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,869
'There's no question."
And he was furious.

465
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,434
Well, the meeting came to an end.

466
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,438
They all left.

467
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,552
They felt like
they had gotten nothing.

468
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,956
And my father realized that he
had left his umbrella in there.

469
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,877
And he went back
to get the umbrella.

470
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,998
And he walked into the room

471
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,954
to see them breaking open
a bottle of champagne...

472
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,156
and toasting each other
as if they had dodged a bullet.

473
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:22,300
They looked like they'd
just missed getting hurt

474
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,554
or killed or what have you.

475
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,276
It was a, er...
that was memorable.

476
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,038
All of our parents came
away from that meeting angry.

477
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,157
The parents went to some pretty
prestigious New York law firms

478
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,478
and initially they were met
with a lot of enthusiasm,

479
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,235
and, er... invariably within
a shun period of time

480
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,159
were told, er...
there's a conflict

481
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,794
and they could not take the case.

482
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,470
They said, "We have
a number of associates

483
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,911
'who are trying to adopt
through Louise Wise,

484
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,999
"and we don't wanna ruin
their chances."

485
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,435
So, that lawsuit was out.

486
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,150
We were too happy
being together to be that angry.

487
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,398
We didn't understand it and to
a degree we almost didn't care.

488
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,757
Our heads were in the clouds,

489
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,632
we knew our parents were pissed off

490
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,991
but it was almost like, "Well,
that's our parents' thing to do"

491
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,077
while we were out partying.

492
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,075
This was New York in 1980s.

493
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,713
Drugs were different,
people were different,

494
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,797
sex was different,
music was different.

495
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,198
We just, we just wok
advantage of all those things.

496
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,119
Sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll.

497
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,156
They were running amok
in New York, I'll say.

498
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,269
Studio 54 was cooking.
Limelight. Copacabana.

499
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,278
They were hitting them all.

500
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,914
New York loved us.
New York loved us.

501
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,673
All the newspapers
were following the boys around

502
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:21,790
no matter where we went.

503
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,480
I remember one morning walking in

504
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,435
and my mother throwing
the "New York Post" at me,

505
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,279
at the kitchen table saying,
"I gotta look at the paper

506
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,834
"to find out where you were
last night?"

507
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,477
The boys thought
they were gonna be stars,

508
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,435
and actually they did star
in one movie.

509
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,757
Walking down the street,
all of a sudden we hear,

510
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,838
"Guys, guys, you're the guys!

511
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,393
"Could you please be in our movie?

512
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,510
"Please be in my movie."

513
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,519
We didn't know who she was,
and she was, she was Madonna.

514
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,439
They stood on the side
and ogled her.

515
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,471
Pretty soon we got
an apartment together,

516
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,797
the triplets apartment.

517
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,353
The triplets apartment.

518
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,759
It's like if you had
the most bachelor apartment

519
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,074
times three.

520
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,918
The liquor store
used to deliver the liquor,

521
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,918
At one point Eddy had appendicitis.

522
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,792
He had no insurance.

523
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,390
And so he checked
into the hospital as Bobby.

524
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,000
And had his appendix taken out as Bobby.

525
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,998
I hope to this day Bobby's
appendix stays pretty healthy.

526
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,750
Between working together,
playing together,

527
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,110
going out together,
going on dates together,

528
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,639
living together,

529
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:56,119
from the time we met till...
well till later

530
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,869
there was nothing, nothing
that could keep us apart.

531
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,151
I feel like I was
the first serious girlfriend.

532
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,912
Initially I couldn't really
tell them apart

533
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,314
and I would bump into them

534
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,158
and I wasn't quite sure

535
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,477
which one I was
going out with, so...

536
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,640
Bob has this very raw, natural,
type of intelligence

537
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,910
that I think I was attracted too.

538
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,876
I always thought David
was the best, right,

539
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,319
of the three of them.

540
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,476
I, I've said it before, you know,

541
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,989
"I got the pick of the litter."

542
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,477
Without a doubt, Eddy
was the, er... handsomest

543
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,672
of all the three
triplets, you know.

544
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,472
Of course, I'm partial

545
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,160
but, you know, I adored him.

546
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,355
When I met him,
he was the last holdout.

547
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,713
The Casanova of the three
and, er... I said,

548
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,878
"Boy, this guy's
a real bachelor, like player."

549
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,511
But he was so warm in his smile

550
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,190
and he had wonderful
beautiful hands, soft hands

551
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,920
and when I shook his hand
I mean, I just, l...

552
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,598
You know, I just
fall in love with him.

553
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,472
I'm from a big colorful
Irish catholic family

554
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,750
and he was a Jewish guy.

555
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,519
When he came to the house
for the first time,

556
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,713
he looked at my dad and he said,

557
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,952
"I don't know if you know this,
Mr Stanley,

558
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,276
"I've been seeing Brenda
every night pretty much

559
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:38,958
"since the first day I met her."

560
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,718
And I thought, "my God,

561
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,195
"my dad knows that, you know,
we're together every night."

562
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,949
And my dad just son of, you
know, looked at me like, "OK"

563
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,115
and that was Eddy.

564
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,912
- 'I do.'
- 'l do.'

565
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:02,675
'We love you.'

566
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,274
Everyone loved him.

567
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,918
If there was a scale,
Bobby would be reserved,

568
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,394
David would be middle

569
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,751
and Eddy was just
the loveable, mushy,

570
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,916
huggable, funny,

571
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,191
you know, he just exuded
warmth and love.

572
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,390
'Jamie's first
Thanksgiving with Daddy.'

573
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,398
- 'Hi, look who's here.'
- 'Yes, Daddy.'

574
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,953
'Daddy decided to show up

575
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,237
'and make a special
guest appearance.'

576
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,832
'Happy birthday, dear Jamie"

577
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,998
"Happy birthday to you"

578
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,997
He loved family gatherings.

579
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,549
You know, Eddy really, really loved

580
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,911
being around David and Bobby.

581
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,511
Eddy seemed to get the most out
of the three of them meeting.

582
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,119
For whatever reason.

583
00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:22,794
He wanted his brothers
and him to have a beautiful life

584
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,038
and everyone to get along

585
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,392
and he wanted everyone
to be one big family.

586
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,873
Eddy was absolutely
the driving force

587
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,914
in terms of leading the search
for our birth mother.

588
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,270
He got a fever
and he just wanted to do it.

589
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,038
And Alan was also rallying,

590
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,356
because it was just
an exciting thing to do.

591
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,516
We figured what are the chances

592
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:58,000
of having triplets born in New York

593
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,276
on July 12th 1961.

594
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,393
We figured out
that New York Public Library

595
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,080
shared birth records.

596
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,310
We each grabbed a book

597
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,512
and went page by page, by page, by page.

598
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,313
And within a couple of hours,
it was, "Bingo!"

599
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,911
Male, male, male.
Three in a row.

600
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,917
All born July 12th 1961.

601
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,877
Right next to it,
birth mother's last name.

602
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,470
The first meeting was in a bar
on like, 47th Street.

603
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,831
It was like, her local
neighborhood watering hole

604
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,760
on the East side,
and it was awkward.

605
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,758
She told the story
of what happened.

606
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,519
Unfortunately it wasn't
a romantic story.

607
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,597
She was a young girl.

608
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,873
Basically, prom night
knock up type thing.

609
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,157
I don't think
she ever got over the fact

610
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,034
that she had triplets
and had to give them up.

611
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,476
You know, to us at 19,

612
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,158
you drink like a fish,
you think you're invincible.

613
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,993
But we found it a little concerning

614
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,432
that she was pretty much
keeping up with us, you know.

615
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,757
Er... the apple doesn't fall
that far from the tree

616
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,794
and it that's the tree,
I was less than thrilled,

617
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,597
and we had our parents already,
so we met her and it was OK.

618
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,637
But she was not a particularly
close part of our lives.

619
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,916
We were all young and starting
our marriages and careers.

620
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,633
'Hi, welcome to Triplets.'

621
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,479
'David Kellman,
Eddy Galland and Robert Shafran

622
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,397
'are identical triplets.

623
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,113
'Now they run a New York
restaurant called,

624
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,310
'what else, you guessed,
Triplets, '

625
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,437
'Welcome. Hello.
Welcome, welcome.'

626
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,630
We had a lot of people
who were coming for us.

627
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,069
They came to see the triplets.

628
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,236
They wanted to be waited
on by one of the triplets.

629
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,396
We served vodka, frozen
blocks of ice,

630
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,875
and we'd get the whole roam
up and dancing.

631
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,718
It was like this
big party going on,

632
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,989
it was like this big Bar Mitzvah.

633
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,516
'Triplets become wildly successful

634
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,755
'owning a restaurant

635
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,438
'in the Soho district
of New York City.'

636
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,876
We did over
a million dollars first year.

637
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,878
That's when things kinda got funky.

638
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,234
In the mid-90s
I started working on a story

639
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,351
for "The New Yorker" magazine

640
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,358
about identical twins reared apart.

641
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,834
I've always thought,

642
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,075
"What would it be like
if you turned

643
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,875
"the corner one day
and you saw yourself?"

644
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,753
In the process of my research,

645
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,192
I came across this obscure
scientific article.

646
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,115
It referenced this secret study

647
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,596
in which identical siblings
had been separated.

648
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:07,149
I was shocked and intrigued.

649
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,512
They were separating
identical babies at birth

650
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,155
for the purpose
of this scientific experiment.

651
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,594
And these babies had all come

652
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,235
from one adoption agency
in New York City.

653
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,958
'The first thing out of my mouth

654
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,479
'was, "Were you adopted?'

655
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:27,999
There I am,
this can't he real.'

656
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,758
'Twins separated
at birth.'

657
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,589
'Eddy and Robert and
David reunited after 19 years.'

658
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,035
'It's beautiful.'

659
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,276
'Blue-collar family,
middle-class family

660
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,879
'and a more affluent family.'

661
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,118
'Adoptive parents should be told
as much as is reasonable.'

662
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,878
'Something
was just not right.'

663
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,799
'They were breaking
open a bottle of champagne

664
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,275
'as if they had
dodged a bullet.'

665
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,395
'All of us were adopted
from Louise Wise.'

666
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,272
'Louise Wise.'

667
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,109
'And these babies had all come
from Louise 'Wise Services.'

668
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,954
Lawrence Wright called me

669
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,312
and he told me
all about the experiment.

670
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,670
And I said, "This is
like Nazi shit."

671
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,034
It was kind of like reality
hitting like a tidal wave.

672
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,796
We were a science experiment.

673
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:46,740
These people split us up
and studied us like lab rats.

674
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,915
We didn't recognize this stuff
until it was put in our face.

675
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,359
Until it was in newsprint.

676
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,155
But there were clues in the past,

677
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,879
I remember from a very young age...

678
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,192
people would come to the house...

679
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,480
"usually a young man
and a young woman.

680
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,476
And they had me taking tests.

681
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,479
They did IQ tests,
personality inventory tests,

682
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,433
they did eye-hand
co-ordination tests.

683
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:36,112
I do remember people coming
to the house, having tests done,

684
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:43,060
square pegs and round holes,
and Rorschach ink block tests.

685
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,114
"What does this mean to you?"
that kind of stuff.

686
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:51,950
Eddy told me
that when he was younger,

687
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,313
he remembers people
watching him and taking notes,

688
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,112
and they would ask him questions

689
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,476
and he would get frustrated
with the questions.

690
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,395
And he remembers
they were videotaping him.

691
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,795
I remember the filming
more than anything else.

692
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:16,473
I remember having
super 8 mm films taken of me

693
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,353
when I was on the swing set,
or on the slide.

694
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,994
Every single time they came
they filmed.

695
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,031
Riding my bike, throwing a ball,

696
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,878
and they wanted to see
how many times I could,

697
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,355
you know, go on my pogo stick,
roller-skating,

698
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,670
throwing a frisbee,
shooting a how and arrow,

699
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,119
you know, they had my attention.

700
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:35,389
I was performing.

701
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,636
The stuff they did would be
more complex as I got older.

702
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,798
Hell weird about it,
I didn't really understand

703
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,797
why they needed to some so often,

704
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,354
why were they asking me
all these questions.

705
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,277
Somewhere around age of nine or ten

706
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,277
I started becoming
less comfortable with it,

707
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,914
and it was kinda like, "Mom,
do I still have to do this?

708
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,313
"Do I still have to do this?"

709
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,791
When our parents adopted us

710
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,958
they were each told
that we were being followed

711
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,434
as part of a normal study

712
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,558
of the development
of adopted children,

713
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:18,040
They had no idea
that we'd been separated.

714
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,677
The agency said the children
born in this period of time

715
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:26,998
were all gonna be in a normal
study of adopted children.

716
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:33,980
And, as far as we knew,
that was it.

717
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:37,280
That this was a new thing
they were going to follow up

718
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,713
with all the children
and at the time we accepted it.

719
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,271
You're talking
about a group of people

720
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,393
that went and held a baby

721
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,991
and did psychological testing
on a six-month-old baby,

722
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,591
and then went to another house
to see his brother,

723
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,996
and then went to another house
to see his brother,

724
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:08,399
and did this over years
and years and years and years

725
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,238
with full knowledge

726
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,271
that we were within
a 100-mile radius.

727
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,757
And not knowing each other.

728
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,475
It's just unconscionable.

729
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,469
Who would think that anybody
would be evil enough

730
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,309
to come up
with something like this?

731
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,677
In the process of my research,

732
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:42,600
I learned is that the person
really in charge of the study

733
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,713
was Dr Peter Neubauer,

734
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:51,073
very distinguished psychiatrist
in New York,

735
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,794
director of the Freud archives.

736
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,799
He was an Austrian refugee
from the Holocaust

737
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,759
and he set up shop in New York
and became, you know,

738
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,040
one of the great men
of psychiatry in America.

739
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,311
What I learned is that people
at the Louise Wise agency

740
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,671
were separating identical siblings

741
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:15,917
and then a team of scientists
led by Neubauer

742
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,429
would follow them.

743
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,030
But it wasn't just the triplets.

744
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,713
There were others.

745
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,716
After my article came out

746
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,957
another twin set
discovered themselves.

747
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,559
'And here they are now.

748
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:34,971
'I appreciate you coming
on the show today.'

749
00:45:34,986 --> 00:45:37,102
- 'Our pleasure.'
- 'Paula and Elyse.'

750
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:45,031
'The story is incredible.
Is that the way to tell it?'

751
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,720
'It's funny. I mean, we say
If it hadn't happened to us

752
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,037
- 'we wouldn't believe it.'
- 'This is a Disney movie.'

753
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,832
'It's a little darker
than a Disney movie.

754
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,871
'I was at home
in my apartment in Brooklyn

755
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,558
'with my two-year-old daughter,

756
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,752
'and the phone rings
and I answer the phone

757
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,279
'and it was the adoption agency.

758
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,317
“We've got some news for you,
you've got a twin sister.

759
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,714
"And she's looking for you!"

760
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,354
'You were both editors
of your high school paper,

761
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,959
'you both went to film school.'

762
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,778
'Well, it's funny because I
don't know if you noticed...'

763
00:46:10,793 --> 00:46:13,837
'Our mannerisms are inherited.'

764
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,791
'I contacted the adoption agency

765
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,070
'and I asked them, "Well,
why were we separated?“

766
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,787
'That's the million-dollar
question of this story.'

767
00:46:19,802 --> 00:46:20,999
'And they said,
"For a twin study."

768
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,997
'We felt that our lives
had been orchestrated

769
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,316
'by these scientific researchers

770
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,829
'who put their scientific needs,

771
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,032
'research needs or desires,
their career interests

772
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,276
'before the needs of us,
and the interests of us

773
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,278
'and other twins and triplets
who were separated.'

774
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,075
Nobody is sure
of how many identical twins

775
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,872
were involved in this study.

776
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,471
I was told six to eight,
but we don't really know.

777
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:52,959
When you have a study like this,

778
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,196
normally you produce the results

779
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:58,198
and you show how large
the sample is

780
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:00,151
and all this sort of thing.

781
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,716
But this study was never published,

782
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,196
Which makes it all
the more intriguing.

783
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,756
We did have an attorney

784
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,111
try to get us
some of the study records.

785
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,471
We received a small amount
of information.

786
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,837
It was very dry, technical data,

787
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,473
that didn't really shed any light

788
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,080
on the reasons for the study.
It was garbage.

789
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,512
I don't know what the results were,

790
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,712
or if there ever were results
because I never saw them.

791
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,750
They're trying
to conceal what they did

792
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,235
from the people they did it to.

793
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,032
Why?

794
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,640
I mean, what was the purpose of it?

795
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,638
The study was never
published. Why?

796
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,917
My name is Natasha Josefowitz...

797
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,713
and I was Peter Neubauer's
research assistant.

798
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,519
So, come on in.
Would you like a cup of coffee?

799
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,358
Here are some of my buddies.

800
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,870
Michelle Obama and I.
She is very tall.

801
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,718
I'm like a little shrimp
next to her,

802
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,751
I come up to her right here.

803
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,473
This is Obama three years ago,

804
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,870
and here he is holding
my latest hook.

805
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,230
I have to tell you.
I said, "Barack, I love you."

806
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,591
He said, "I love you too", and
he gave me a kiss on this cheek.

807
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:53,111
Yeah. This is Robert Redford
and Al Gore.

808
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,869
And this is Errol Flynn and me
when I was 18.

809
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,513
I thought he was a hoot.

810
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,311
Picasso's.

811
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,397
When are we gonna talk
about the twin study?

812
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:14,029
You need to know
I am not part of the team,

813
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,550
I am a peripheral person.
I just do the hearsay.

814
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,116
The first time I heard
about the twin study,

815
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,438
it was still just a dream
in Peter's head.

816
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,074
What was he like'!

817
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,796
Sexy, nice looking, interesting.

818
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,389
His background was very Freudian.

819
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,397
Anna Freud, Freud's daughter,

820
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,080
would often some
and visit with him.

821
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,349
He was very focused on wanting
to make a difference

822
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,437
in children's lives.

823
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,395
Peter started thinking,
wouldn't it be interesting

824
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,750
to have a study of mothers

825
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,757
who wanted to give up
their children.

826
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,837
Who happen to be identical twins

827
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,515
and then could be
separated at birth?

828
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,758
If we could put them in two
totally different environments,

829
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,713
we would put to rest the dilemma,

830
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,718
nature or nurture, forever.

831
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,955
Now you may think,
"this is terrible, you know,

832
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,718
"how could you do this?"

833
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,038
You have to put yourself back
in the late 50s and 60s.

834
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,436
This was not something
that seemed to be bad.

835
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,950
Nobody said, "To take children
apart, how terrible."

836
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,119
That was not at all
in anyone's thoughts.

837
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,552
This was a very exciting time.

838
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,035
Psychology was just beginning
to be the big deal

839
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,276
that everybody was talking about.

840
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,591
This was all in terms
of research. An opportunity.

841
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,591
One of the great questions
that science has ever asked

842
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,109
is "How do we become
the people we are,

843
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,152
"how much of nature
versus how much of nurture

844
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,760
"shapes us into the people
that we become?“

845
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,319
I did not go and do the research.

846
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,954
But I would hear about it
because I was in the office.

847
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,510
What they found out,
was incredible.

848
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,194
'Our lives are parallel
to a phenomenal degree.

849
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,516
'It's, it's ridiculous.'

850
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,039
'We're all the same,

851
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,385
'as soon as we started
discussing our personalities.'

852
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,357
'Personalities are the same,
our gestures are the same.'

853
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:38,470
'We always talk
at the same time.'

854
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,477
'You were raised
in different homes?'

855
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,193
True.'

856
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:47,360
I did not believe that it'd be
as much hereditary as it was,

857
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,357
that was more
than any of us thought.

858
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,118
'I'll start a sentence
and he'll finish it.'

859
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:52,309
'We all like Chinese food.'

860
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:53,589
'You were all wrestlers
at one time?'

861
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,074
'Yes.'

862
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,269
- 'You all smoke cigarettes?'
- Yes.'

863
00:51:56,284 --> 00:51:57,594
'Do you all smoke
the same brand?'

864
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,074
'Yes.'

865
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,509
- 'Do you like the same colors?'
- Yes.'

866
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,312
'How's their taste in women,
is it similar?'

867
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,476
'Yes. Definitely.'

868
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,111
We are moved to behaviors

869
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:10,992
that we are totally
unconscious about.

870
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,990
'You were both editors
of your high school paper,

871
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,872
'you both went to film school.'

872
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,274
'I don't know if you noticed...'

873
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,436
'Our mannerisms are inherited.'

874
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,437
It's disturbing,
we don't like that.

875
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,517
People don't like to hear,
they say, "I have free will."

876
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,390
We would prefer that we have
some influence over our lives.

877
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,272
Wouldn't you rather know that'?

878
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,516
That you have
some control over this

879
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,598
and so finding out, never mind,
doesn't matter what you do.

880
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,315
So, I think
it's upsetting to people

881
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,590
to see how little influence
they have,

882
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:55,710
how little control they have.

883
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,832
We don't like that, we fight that.

884
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:11,070
If the conclusions of the study
were so shocking

885
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,760
and so earth-shaking,

886
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,110
why haven't you published
your study?

887
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,790
There is a lot that we don't know.

888
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,595
We have anecdotes
that are very provocative,

889
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,990
but we don't know,
we don't have the data.

890
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,160
I don't know
what happened to the study.

891
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,034
I moved to Switzerland in 1965

892
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,835
and lost touch
with what was going on.

893
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,111
All that research should be seen.

894
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,999
This study was the first,
and it's also the last,

895
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,351
it will never be done again,
il will never be replicated.

896
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,550
It's monumental,
it's a monumental study.

897
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,390
In terms of the motivation they used

898
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,158
to justify what they did,

899
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,555
I don't even care because, I...

900
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,238
It's not justifiable what they did.

901
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,077
You know what?

902
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,839
Coming from the Holocaust,

903
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:23,512
our family has a knowledge

904
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,315
that when you play with humans...

905
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,916
you do something very wrong.

906
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:41,079
And I really believe that
because of this research,

907
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,591
these three boys
did not have happy endings.

908
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,718
'What were some of the similarities

909
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,797
'you found that you had
as you were all growing up

910
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,549
'in your own respective
households?'

911
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,716
'We all smoked the same
cigarettes when we met,

912
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:04,910
'we all wrestled
in high school and junior high,

913
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,076
'we all loved the same food, er...

914
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:08,440
'our taste in women
was similar.'

915
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,118
'What are some
of the stranger things

916
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,271
'you found out you had in common?

917
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,309
'Any other more
surprising discoveries?'

918
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:17,555
'Well, sometimes when you think

919
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,159
'you're having
a unique thought or idea

920
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,316
'and you go to share it
with someone

921
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,192
'and they say, "Your brother
just told me."

922
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:24,574
- 'It's a little annoying.'
- 'It's funny.'

923
00:55:24,589 --> 00:55:25,988
'It's a little annoying,
it's unnerving.'

924
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,476
Being in business with my brothers

925
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,989
damaged our relationship.

926
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,637
There were conflicting work ethics,

927
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,753
and my father had passed away.

928
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:47,432
He really anchored us together
as a group

929
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,279
and kept the peace so to speak,

930
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,199
They started to argue
like kids would argue, you know.

931
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:56,551
And they didn't have
that opportunity,

932
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,558
that gift of being able
to be brothers for 18 years.

933
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,720
When you are living
in a family of children

934
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,310
you learn how to adjust to each other.

935
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,991
If I don't like the way
you do this, I can get angry,

936
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,078
or I can learn to compromise.

937
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:21,035
But they met as adults.

938
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,039
And had never learned
how to live with each other.

939
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,118
As things went on,
things got more complicated,

940
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,278
and as things got more complicated,

941
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,278
what ended up happening was I left.

942
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,720
When Bobby left the business

943
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,958
Eddy and I felt
that we were being betrayed.

944
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,755
Bobby felt that
he was being pushed out.

945
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:54,354
Either way, it did major, major
damage to the relationship.

946
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,630
I think that took
an extreme loll on Eddy

947
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,116
more so than I think
David and Bobby.

948
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:05,719
Eddy was always the one

949
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,674
who just wanted to have
everybody be at peace together,

950
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:11,711
and Eddy was, was very
upset about it.

951
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,274
He was kind of crushed
about it. It was eating at him.

952
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,160
He dearly loved them,

953
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,237
and he wanted his brothers
to be together.

954
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,353
He was just not really sure
how to deal with it all.

955
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:30,749
You're just seeing a lot more
kind of up and down behaviors,

956
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,274
erratic behaviors.

957
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,158
'Eddy's
growing a heard.'

958
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:36,998
'Fur face, that's me.'

959
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:38,394
'Jeez, wake the child.'

960
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,398
'Jamie,
your daddy is fuzzy.'

961
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,479
You're just seeing a lot more
unnatural highs and lows.

962
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:52,119
He would call people and...
at bizarre hours of the evening,

963
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,152
and then they would say,

964
00:57:55,240 --> 00:58:00,269
"I haven't seen or heard
from Eddy in ten years.

965
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,596
"Why is he picking up
the telephone and calling me

966
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,517
"at two o'clock
in the morning?"

967
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,439
You know, those are,
those are signs.

968
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,835
This was just...
this was more

969
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,389
than just somebody
who needed counseling.

970
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,796
This was, like, really
something very, very serious.

971
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,352
He could be unbelievably charming.

972
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,038
'Hello?'

973
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,152
But the downswing
was a lot of anger.

974
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,477
Er... there was just
deep, deep darkness.

975
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,235
Manic depression

976
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,114
I think was what
they eventually said.

977
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,312
It made sense in hindsight

978
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,553
I didn't walk down the aisle

979
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,318
thinking, you know,

980
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:55,434
"I have a man who is suffering
from manic depression."

981
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,319
People will say, "How
could you not know?", but...

982
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,478
he was so unique
and so wonderful and special,

983
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,517
you just... that was Eddy,
you know.

984
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:18,430
I was advised that he needed
to be in a... a facility.

985
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,795
I mean, I felt bad that
I put him through this trauma

986
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:29,513
of going into a psych ward

987
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,790
because I had been in a psych
ward and I know how hard It is.

988
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,879
When I was a kid, I spent my
16th birthday in a psych ward.

989
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,159
We all were really disturbed kids.

990
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,272
We were all under psychiatric
care when we were teenagers.

991
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,234
We all had very challenging

992
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,756
and dysfunctional teenage years.

993
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,109
Could we ask about personal?

994
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:04,474
One of you were involved
in a murder,

995
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:05,669
is that right?

996
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,153
It's up to you guys.

997
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,156
No. No.

998
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:11,554
People Magazine...

999
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,991
One was accused of
being involved in a murder.

1000
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,598
And it was me,

1001
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,758
who never met this person
who was killed,

1002
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,792
never was present
or anything like that.

1003
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,478
It was peer pressure.

1004
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,080
Friends pressuring me
into covering for them,

1005
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,111
telling a story for them
to the police

1006
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:31,753
and that pulled me right into it.

1007
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,598
I've never hurt anyone in my life.

1008
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,075
We know it, we can feel it.

1009
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:37,633
We can feel it.

1010
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:48,756
A lot of people in this study
had dysfunctional childhoods

1011
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,155
and some mental problems

1012
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,397
and it raises questions, you know.

1013
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,558
If you are a person
who has devoted your life,

1014
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,991
like Dr Neubauer has
to the study of mental illness,

1015
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,034
then is that a factor
that you are researching?

1016
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,719
'The story is incredible.
This is a Disney movie.'

1017
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,751
'It's a little darker
than a Disney movie.'

1018
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,953
When we first met we realized
we had all these similarities,

1019
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,389
we had similar mannerisms,

1020
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,590
we both had studied film.

1021
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,556
And then we also found out

1022
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,989
we both had suffered
from depression.

1023
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,159
So, this is the letter

1024
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,636
that I received
from Louise Wise Services.

1025
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:44,277
"You were born at 12.51 pm
on October 9, 1968,

1026
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,358
"to a 29-year-old Jewish
single woman.

1027
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,040
"She was very intelligent
with a high IQ.

1028
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,879
"She entered college
on a merit scholarship

1029
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,550
"but emotional problems
interrupted her attendance,

1030
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,433
"She had a history
of voluntary hospitalizations

1031
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,517
"for emotional problems.

1032
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,358
"Although I have not
been able lo locate

1033
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,473
"the original medical reports,
secondary sources noted

1034
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,955
"that your mother's diagnosis
was schizophrenia."

1035
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,154
It was really disturbing
to read that my birth mother

1036
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,670
had been in and out
of institutions.

1037
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,792
I started finding out more

1038
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,078
about the other twins
and triplets in the study,

1039
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,634
and it turns out that
not only had many of them

1040
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,360
struggled with mental
health problems.

1041
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,280
But that their birth parents
had mental health issues.

1042
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,312
And their adoptive families
had never been told.

1043
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,234
How possible is it

1044
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,796
that your mother
had mental health issues?

1045
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:51,913
Er... I don't think
they were severe.

1046
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,555
L, I think that she was, er...

1047
01:02:55,600 --> 01:03:01,437
She may have had some minor,
minor issues, er...

1048
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,196
She may have had some, a little
bit more than minor issues.

1049
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,029
Were the scientists
purposefully choosing children

1050
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,277
whose biological parents
had a mental illness,

1051
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,519
and placing them
into different homes

1052
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,952
to see, is mental illness
hereditable.

1053
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:38,353
Eddy was in the hospital

1054
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,471
for I think it was three weeks.

1055
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,514
And then he came back to work
at the restaurant.

1056
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,997
I wasn't there. David
was with him, all the time.

1057
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,310
I think maybe he can give you
better detail about it.

1058
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,478
I was running the kitchen.

1059
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,796
Eddy wasn't in.
I was running the kitchen,

1060
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:06,478
he was running
the front of the house.

1061
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,318
That's the way it worked.

1062
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,955
And I didn't know where he was,
and he lived across the street.

1063
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:16,911
So, David called me
from the restaurant

1064
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:21,079
and he asked me
to look out the window

1065
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,750
to see if Eddy's car
was in the driveway,

1066
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,757
because if it were in the driveway,

1067
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:28,438
we knew that he was home.

1068
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,110
So, the car was in the driveway,

1069
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:37,109
and I said to David, er...

1070
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,596
"Do you want me
to go over there?"

1071
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,838
And David said, "Yes."

1072
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,877
And she called me back
a few minutes later

1073
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,116
and her voice
was trembling and shaking.

1074
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,549
She said,
"You've gotta come home."

1075
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,557
And I said, "Why?"

1076
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,319
And she said, "Please,
you've just gotta come home."

1077
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,353
Er...

1078
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:09,277
And I, er... I pulled up
we lived across the street.

1079
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,278
I pulled up, kind of, just...
cop cars were all there

1080
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,199
and I just kind of,
pulled up on... you know,

1081
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,516
blocking half the street,
left the door open

1082
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,710
and started running into the house

1083
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,594
and the cops grabbed me and
they wouldn't let me come in.

1084
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,551
They said, "You don't,
you don't wanna see this.

1085
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,160
"You can't see this,
you don't wanna see this.

1086
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,760
"You, you don't wanna see this."

1087
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,713
And that's when I knew he was gone.

1088
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:40,716
I told Bobby, "I need
to talk to you."

1089
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,989
And it's as if he, he kind of knew.

1090
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:52,433
He kind of knew, before
the words came out of my mouth.

1091
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,994
Eddy committed suicide.

1092
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,034
Eddy shot himself.

1093
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,556
He look his own life.

1094
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:22,837
I don't remember who told us.
I just remember darkness.

1095
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:34,399
Buried him on Father's Day,
I gave the eulogy,

1096
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,434
and I don't remember
everything I said,

1097
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,951
but I do remember saying
that my brother Eddy

1098
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,992
could light up a room
with his smile.

1099
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,310
Why Eddy? Why Eddy?
Why not me?

1100
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,556
I've asked myself
that a hundred times.

1101
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,036
I'd rather it was me than Eddy.

1102
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:12,039
I, I don't know why Eddy
and why not me.

1103
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,469
Maybe just because...

1104
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,079
I don't know, I just don't know.

1105
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:23,272
I, I, can't answer this.

1106
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:32,074
Thank you, Bobby.

1107
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,191
You're welcome.

1108
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:25,672
I'd like to know
the truth about the experiment.

1109
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:32,194
My understanding, within
this small group of twins

1110
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:33,878
that were separated and studied,

1111
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:39,871
there was more than one suicide.

1112
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,753
It's almost impossible
just to be a coincidence.

1113
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,994
Given Eddy's mental illness...

1114
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,791
who knows what's in their DNA.

1115
01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:59,438
If they have anything conclusive

1116
01:08:59,480 --> 01:09:02,916
that is in any way predicting
anything in the future

1117
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,237
that I need to know about,
I wanna know about it.

1118
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,712
There is still so much
that we don't know.

1119
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,916
I have more questions
than I have answers.

1120
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,757
One of the things
about being a journalist

1121
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,519
is that you don't know
what you are gonna find out.

1122
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:35,995
Sometimes you know
what you didn't find out

1123
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:40,113
which is frustrating
like with this story.

1124
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,279
Well, I didn't get
to the bottom of it

1125
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:46,470
because I never got
to see the study.

1126
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,318
As no one has, you know.

1127
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,510
That would be the bottom of it.

1128
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,597
But that's why
this is so tantalizing.

1129
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,158
Here's the research that I kept

1130
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,794
from when I was writing
about twins.

1131
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,116
It's been a while since
I've had a look at this box.

1132
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,470
This is interesting.

1133
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,396
Mini cassettes.

1134
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:28,559
Before he passed away I managed
to talk to Dr Neubauer.

1135
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,477
He was reluctant,

1136
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,309
he had not ever spoken about it
to my knowledge.

1137
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:36,920
All right, let's see
what he has to say.

1138
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,431
'OK, I've got it on now.

1139
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:44,949
'How did this study
come about?'

1140
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,274
'I tell you,

1141
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,119
'I would rather
not want to speak about it.'

1142
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,959
'Really? Why?'

1143
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,389
'Until
we have published it.'

1144
01:10:54,440 --> 01:10:57,319
'-When do you plan to publish it?'

1145
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,990
'Well, maybe, we would publish

1146
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,998
'in about a year,
a year and a half from now.'

1147
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:05,758
He was certainly elusive,

1148
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,030
he was protecting something.

1149
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,789
'Well, tell me a little bit
about the scope of the study

1150
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,958
'and how many people
were involved in it?'

1151
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,516
'The study was only
based on a small number

1152
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,952
'of identical twins
separated at birth,

1153
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,150
'for many, many reasons.

1154
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,476
'I don't want to talk
about that now.

1155
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:31,309
'We had to stop it because
it became too expensive.'

1156
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,159
'Who was
your primary support?'

1157
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,589
'Some private family foundations.

1158
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,674
'We got some money
from Washington.'

1159
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:44,758
'OK.'

1160
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,509
Private charities and
Washington, what does that mean?

1161
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,313
And I don't know where
their funding came from.

1162
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:52,714
'OK, thanks again
for your time.'

1163
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:53,716
'Bye!

1164
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,120
I think that there's
a great deal of sensitivity

1165
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,356
about this story.

1166
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,198
There's a lot of powerful people

1167
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,392
who would like
to have this story silenced.

1168
01:12:10,440 --> 01:12:11,919
What happened to the study

1169
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:13,678
as far as you're aware?

1170
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:17,031
Before Neubauer died in 2008,

1171
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:19,356
he left all the research materials

1172
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,119
in an archive at Yale University.

1173
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:29,551
Neubauer placed it under seal,
for decades and decades.

1174
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,071
So far as I know
nobody's been able to access it.

1175
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:40,078
Er...
what do we have here?

1176
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,033
Wow.

1177
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,874
This is the Yale University
website, and this appears to be

1178
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:54,718
the Guide to Adoption Study Records

1179
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:57,115
of the Child Development Center.

1180
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:01,996
66 boxes filled with information:

1181
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:06,432
charts, films and tapes
and research findings.

1182
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:09,074
Home visits, that's a big one.

1183
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:13,239
It says that the dates of the
study were from 1960 to 1980.

1184
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:18,116
I guess our reunion,
kind of closed the study.

1185
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,152
"Information about access.

1186
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:26,036
"The records are restricted
until 2066."

1187
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:29,758
It's sealed!

1188
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,998
So, they did all that they did

1189
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,839
to have this whole list tucked away

1190
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:43,875
in a dusty library somewhere,
where nobody can touch it.

1191
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,517
"Researchers wishing
to use these records

1192
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:50,914
"before this date must secure

1193
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,837
"written authorization
from the Jewish Board

1194
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:54,837
"of Family and Children's
Services."

1195
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,433
The Jewish Board
was the parent organization

1196
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:07,713
of the Child Development Center
run by Peter Neubauer.

1197
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:10,674
My understanding is that

1198
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:13,917
they are a very, very
powerful organization

1199
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:17,749
with very deep
political connections,

1200
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:23,234
'Thank you for calling

1201
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,352
'the Jewish Board of Family
and Children Services.'

1202
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:28,550
'Hello!

1203
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,036
Yes, hi. My name
is David Kellman, er...

1204
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:36,472
and apparently, I was a,
one of the subjects of a study,

1205
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,638
run by the Child Development
Center many years ago,

1206
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,399
and it's being kept
at Yale University.

1207
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:46,070
- Yes?'
- And on their website it says

1208
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,475
that I would need permission
from the board

1209
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,080
in order to gain access
to those records,

1210
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,636
and somehow the receptionist
got me to you.

1211
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,910
'OK. Er...

1212
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,759
'I'm not aware of any of that
stuff or when the study was,

1213
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:00,995
'but I can...'

1214
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:02,394
There have been
a number of journalists

1215
01:15:02,440 --> 01:15:04,750
and as far as I know,
some of the twins

1216
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:06,598
that were involved in this study

1217
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:08,916
who have tried to gain access
to this material.

1218
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,874
So far as I know
they haven't been able to see

1219
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,480
the results of this study.

1220
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,353
Is there a way that I can go
directly to someone

1221
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,437
that would be able
to provide access to me,

1222
01:15:29,480 --> 01:15:31,790
as I was one of the subjects
within the study?

1223
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,595
If anybody should have the right
to see all this material,

1224
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:37,039
it's the people that were actually

1225
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:38,434
the subject of the study.

1226
01:15:38,480 --> 01:15:40,118
They should know what was learned.

1227
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:43,158
'I mean, I have no idea

1228
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:47,433
'who would even be the one
to ask right now.

1229
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:48,993
'I would need
to look into that.'

1230
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,556
OK, so you're the first line
of defense, so to speak.

1231
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,398
'I guess, yeah.'

1232
01:15:54,440 --> 01:15:57,796
OK, I will send an email to you.
I'll put at the subject line,

1233
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,799
is going to be, er...
"Twin Studies".

1234
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:04,195
'Gotcha!

1235
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:09,309
Louise Wise Services
is long closed.

1236
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,239
Peter Neubauer passed away.

1237
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,077
And yet we still don't know exactly

1238
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:23,956
what they were looking for,
or what they found out.

1239
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,157
I'm a Clinical Psychologist

1240
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:52,674
and I was a research assistant
on Peter Neubauer's study.

1241
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,633
I believe I am the only person

1242
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:57,671
who worked on this study

1243
01:16:57,720 --> 01:16:59,313
who is willing

1244
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:01,954
to go on record

1245
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,434
about what was done.

1246
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:07,393
I was 24.

1247
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:10,751
This is essentially my first job.

1248
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:21,312
You know, you had to be careful
to not let on that, er...

1249
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:25,433
"Gee, you look just
like your, your twin brother."

1250
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:30,475
I would've been fired
on the spot, right?

1251
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,079
It was a little tempting, yeah,

1252
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:33,633
there was, there was
a little bit of temptation.

1253
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,116
It's like,
"Hey, I, I know your twin.

1254
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:43,236
"I saw somebody a week ago
who was exactly like you."

1255
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,789
The question whether
I feel guilty is interesting

1256
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:54,357
because I never felt
a responsibility.

1257
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,310
I came on after this was designed.

1258
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:01,437
However, I was a participant,

1259
01:18:01,480 --> 01:18:06,031
so you could say I was
ethically compromised by that.

1260
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:12,952
In retrospect, I think it was
undoubtedly ethically wrong.

1261
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,796
I got some notes here. OK.

1262
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:21,913
OK.

1263
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:33,320
These are my actual original notes,

1264
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,796
copies of psychologicals
that I did.

1265
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,071
And who in, who in
particular are in these files?

1266
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:42,430
Well, I have the triplets.

1267
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:47,589
Here we go.

1268
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,200
I, I'm not gonna mention
the name. But, er...

1269
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:53,517
"He's a loud, energetic boy.

1270
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,517
"His need to establish his autonomy

1271
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,119
"takes to the form of showing off,

1272
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,754
"both his intelligence
and his strength,

1273
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,395
"and putting down others
including his parents."

1274
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:09,390
Yeah, this one's eager
to show off his new bicycle

1275
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:14,389
and all of his sports equipment
while I filmed him.

1276
01:19:14,440 --> 01:19:17,159
He was very intense in his play

1277
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:22,434
and got quite... rough.

1278
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:24,232
This kid had some problems.

1279
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,309
Hyper aggressiveness.

1280
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:32,475
OK, so apparently,

1281
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:33,874
his parents are not cognizant

1282
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,355
of his problems,
nor are they able to help him

1283
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:37,913
understand his weaknesses

1284
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:41,510
and establish more appropriate
control over his actions.

1285
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:45,872
So, I didn't think the parents
were very tuned in

1286
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,560
to the struggles
this youngster was having.

1287
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,437
What were the findings
of the study?

1288
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:59,429
I have no idea because
I left the study after 10 months

1289
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,831
and the results
were never published,

1290
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,558
All I have is my little,
tiny piece.

1291
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,150
It's a mystery, it's a huge loss.

1292
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,595
All this important scientific data

1293
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:17,474
is just buried in these archives.

1294
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,635
So, some people have speculated

1295
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,320
that the purpose of the study,
ultimate purpose,

1296
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,237
was looking at mental health.

1297
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:32,390
I... there was, there was never
a mention of mental health

1298
01:20:32,440 --> 01:20:38,914
of the biological parents
when I was in the study.

1299
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,478
We were not interested
in mental health,

1300
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:46,399
that's not what
we were interested in.

1301
01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:49,080
We were looking
for differences in parenting.

1302
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:57,634
We wanted to understand
parenting practices

1303
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,115
and how it would affect
development.

1304
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:03,757
So, you're saying
they were interested more

1305
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:05,677
in the family dynamics?

1306
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,872
But they couldn't have
known that. They didn't know

1307
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:10,877
how the families
were going to interact

1308
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,275
with this newly-adopted child.

1309
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,596
The only way
they could possibly know

1310
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:17,876
about the family dynamics

1311
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:22,039
was if they already had a child
placed in that family.

1312
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:23,991
'Another astonishing coincidence

1313
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,111
'in this story
is that each of the brothers

1314
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,993
'grew up in their families
with an adopted sister,

1315
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,271
'all the girls
now 21 years old.'

1316
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:38,517
The triplets,
they all had an older sibling.

1317
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:39,755
They were placed in families

1318
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,269
where there was an older
adopted child

1319
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:45,199
that had been placed with,
by Louise Wise.

1320
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,509
That was part of the design.

1321
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,640
It's good to see you.

1322
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:11,830
It's good to see you.

1323
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,556
I'd just like
to show you guys a clip.

1324
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:19,753
It's Lawrence Perlman, who was
a Researcher on the study.

1325
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,549
'What were
the findings of the study?

1326
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:32,549
'I have no idea because
they were never published.

1327
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,831
'We were looking
for differences in parenting.

1328
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:40,113
'We wanted to understand
parenting practices

1329
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:41,912
'and how it would affect
development.

1330
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,315
'The triplets
were placed in families

1331
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,000
'where there was an older
adopted child

1332
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:50,999
'that had been placed with,
by Louise Wise.

1333
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:55,910
'That was part of the design.'

1334
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:57,997
How do you feel watching that?

1335
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:02,034
Like a lab rat.

1336
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:08,110
It, it only just makes it
that much... it just only...

1337
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:09,480
It just makes it...

1338
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:12,239
- That much worse.
- Much more duplicitous.

1339
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:14,315
Er...

1340
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:15,839
They're not just studying the kids,

1341
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,077
but they're studying the parents.

1342
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,990
So, they did in fact know the
parenting style of each parent.

1343
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:25,314
So, this was not, you know...

1344
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:28,398
Obviously it was far
from a random selection.

1345
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:32,394
They knew exactly
who they had chosen

1346
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:38,277
to place each one of us with
when they called the Gallands,

1347
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:42,029
and the Kellmans, and the Shafrans.

1348
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:54,953
In terms of how
they parented their children

1349
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:56,593
the three families

1350
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,200
were quite, quite different.

1351
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,799
David's father stood out.

1352
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,514
There was nobody in the world
like his son.

1353
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:12,516
He was so proud of him.
Whatever he did was wonderful.

1354
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:18,670
Bobby's father
was very busy as a doctor

1355
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:23,556
and didn't have the time
to be with Bobby

1356
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:25,716
that David's father had,

1357
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,435
but was as devoted to him
as possible.

1358
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:34,233
The most traditional
was Eddy's father...

1359
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:40,677
who was rather strict.
He was the boss.

1360
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:43,798
He made the rules and Eddy
was supposed to follow.

1361
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,675
Eddy's relationship
with his father...

1362
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,319
it couldn't have been good.

1363
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,515
And that matters.

1364
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,712
And why do you
say it couldn't have been good?

1365
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:10,516
Because otherwise,
I would have known him,

1366
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:11,914
we would have seen him,

1367
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,356
Eddy would have talked about him.

1368
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:32,318
This was the last picture
we ever had of Edward.

1369
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:34,510
He was very gregarious.

1370
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,393
He got into all the things
young guys do.

1371
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:39,636
He wrecked a car

1372
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:43,639
and a few things like that, but...

1373
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:48,516
I mean, occasionally
I disciplined him.

1374
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:53,270
Eddy and his dad
were very different as people.

1375
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:58,713
Eddy was more artsy, kinda kid,
you know, he wasn't into sports.

1376
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:01,878
Elliott had a very
strong militaristic

1377
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:05,197
kind of approach to life,
very traditional.

1378
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,800
He was a teacher,
he was all about punctuality.

1379
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:14,000
I was a strict disciplinarian,

1380
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:18,352
and my children unfortunately

1381
01:26:18,440 --> 01:26:21,159
had me as a strict
disciplinarian too.

1382
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:26,551
Eddy said he always
sort of didn't feel

1383
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:30,753
like he fit in with his family.

1384
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:38,837
He always felt like, like
he wasn't in the right place.

1385
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:44,837
How much did you have any sense

1386
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:48,396
that Edward was unhappy?

1387
01:26:48,440 --> 01:26:51,956
He didn't discuss
his problems with me.

1388
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,034
We were a rather quiet family.

1389
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:05,075
We didn't tell our problems
to one another.

1390
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:11,871
We protected each other.
It was a nice family.

1391
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:20,272
Some people
are just not a good fit.

1392
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,557
It wasn't his father's fault.

1393
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:34,676
Elliot did what he believed
to be best as a parent.

1394
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,917
They were just different people.

1395
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:43,080
I got the phone call from...
I believe it was Bobby.

1396
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:47,273
And he told me to sit down

1397
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:50,278
and I said no need to.

1398
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:53,597
And he told me about it.

1399
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:58,840
And then standing right there

1400
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:02,191
I went over to my wife

1401
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:07,110
and told her Edward
had committed suicide.

1402
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:12,155
And we stood there
for quite a while, crying.

1403
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:23,075
And... that was it.

1404
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:40,190
I often wondered whether
I didn't teach him something...

1405
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,276
because of the way he left.

1406
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:49,080
I don't know.

1407
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:52,431
Maybe I didn't teach him something,

1408
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:55,871
how to live life or something.

1409
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:59,470
That bothers me occasionally.

1410
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:14,630
Why did the boys' lives
turn out completely different?

1411
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:16,159
I don't need to read any hooks,

1412
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,555
I don't need to read any studies.

1413
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:24,113
I saw it first hand
with those three boys.

1414
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:29,391
It's all about nurture.

1415
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:44,954
'These three young men

1416
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,719
'they are all seated
in the same position.'

1417
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:50,599
We found a lot of similarities

1418
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,280
because that's what people
were looking for.

1419
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:54,913
They smoke the same
kind of cigarettes.

1420
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:56,234
You say, "My God,

1421
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:58,840
'They're smoking Marlboros,
that's amazing.'

1422
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:01,269
What you're not looking for
are their differences.

1423
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:03,277
'I can't get over it,
I'm telling you.

1424
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:04,754
'You all wrestled
at one time?'

1425
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:05,870
'Yes.'

1426
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:08,793
We found the ways
that we were alike

1427
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:12,236
and we emphasized them
and we wanted to be alike.

1428
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,713
We were falling in love
with each other.

1429
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:20,276
I think there
were superficialities.

1430
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:24,314
They liked the same things
and they had similar interests,

1431
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:27,239
but deep down they were different.

1432
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:33,994
They were not a case study
of biology being destiny.

1433
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:42,759
I've come to believe
genes and the environment

1434
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:46,270
are close competitors.

1435
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:51,758
You could say that we drift
in the direction

1436
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:55,759
that our genes tell us to go

1437
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,440
but it doesn't mean
you are destined

1438
01:30:58,480 --> 01:31:01,472
to be one person or another.

1439
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:10,358
I believe that I'm still here today

1440
01:31:10,440 --> 01:31:14,798
because of the foundation that
was given to me by my parents.

1441
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:19,357
I believe that absolutely
made a difference

1442
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:21,277
in terms of struggling

1443
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:23,152
with whatever demons
I struggle with.

1444
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:31,391
I believe nature
and nurture both matter.

1445
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:38,340
But I think nurture
can overcome nearly everything.

1446
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:15,713
Because the study's
never been published

1447
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:17,717
we simply don't know definitively

1448
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:22,078
how many people's lives
were separated in this fashion.

1449
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:23,679
There may still be twins out there

1450
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,473
who still don't know
they are twins.

1451
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:31,759
There are probably
at least four individuals

1452
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,076
who were subjects of this study

1453
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:37,909
who don't know
that they have a twin.

1454
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,271
If they know that there
are still twins out there

1455
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:46,633
that are missing out on life,
it boggles the mind.

1456
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,796
There's two ways
of thinking about it.

1457
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:52,117
These people really should know
that there is a twin,

1458
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:54,629
or, "My God, these people
should not know

1459
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:59,072
"that they were used this way,
that will make them so upset."

1460
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:03,239
Maybe this is why the study
cannot be published as yet,

1461
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:05,430
until they're gone.

1462
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,830
Il really opens up the possibility.

1463
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:11,996
Anybody can just
walk around the comer

1464
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:15,715
and discover that you
have a twin out there.

1465
01:33:16,345 --> 01:33:26,345
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