1 00:00:10,060 --> 00:00:11,060 'As a journalist, 2 00:00:11,061 --> 00:00:15,059 'you are consumed by two questions constantly - 3 00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:16,579 'how to tell a story, 4 00:00:16,580 --> 00:00:20,060 'but, perhaps more crucially, WHY to tell a story. 5 00:00:21,060 --> 00:00:22,899 'Imagine a country. 6 00:00:22,900 --> 00:00:24,099 'Nice weather. Let's give it nice weather.' 7 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:27,900 'Nice weather for England, anyway. 8 00:00:28,740 --> 00:00:31,059 'Imagine the people in this country 9 00:00:31,060 --> 00:00:34,059 'believe they are living in a democracy, 10 00:00:34,060 --> 00:00:36,059 'believe in their own freedom. 11 00:00:36,060 --> 00:00:38,059 'But they are being abused 12 00:00:38,060 --> 00:00:42,059 'by a power so everyday they don't know to look for it. 13 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:46,059 'A treacherous combination of press, the police and politicians 14 00:00:46,060 --> 00:00:47,900 'that hide in plain sight. 15 00:00:49,060 --> 00:00:51,900 'Imagine a country where that concealment was... 16 00:00:53,060 --> 00:00:55,059 'Imagine a country where... 17 00:00:55,060 --> 00:00:57,059 'where the news organisations...' 18 00:00:57,060 --> 00:00:58,739 Shit! 19 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:00,059 Imagine it all deleted. 20 00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:02,580 HE SIGHS Florid nonsense. 21 00:01:05,060 --> 00:01:07,059 'My name is Nick Davies. 22 00:01:07,060 --> 00:01:09,059 'I am a journalist, 23 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:10,579 'and this is a story 24 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:13,059 'that ends in seven major police investigations, 25 00:01:13,060 --> 00:01:15,739 'nearly 40 convictions, 26 00:01:15,740 --> 00:01:18,059 'and some of the most powerful people in this country 27 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:19,419 'being brought to their knees.' 28 00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:22,060 Oh, no. It's too grand, too grand, too grand. 29 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:29,419 'My name is Nick Davies. 30 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:31,059 'I'm a journalist.' 31 00:01:31,060 --> 00:01:33,059 Morning. I'll just check in. 32 00:01:33,060 --> 00:01:35,059 'This all started with Stuart Kuttner.' 33 00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:36,060 Hello. 34 00:01:36,061 --> 00:01:38,060 Mm, no. 35 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:47,419 'This is the most troubling story I've ever written. 36 00:01:47,420 --> 00:01:52,059 'A story about the abuse of power and the concealment of truth.' 37 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:55,059 Hi. Hi. Nick Davies for the Today programme. 38 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:56,100 I'm late. 39 00:02:04,060 --> 00:02:08,059 British journalism is "sloppy and morally bankrupt". 40 00:02:08,060 --> 00:02:10,899 That is the claim of the journalist Nick Davies, 41 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:14,259 who's written a book that shows how often newspapers use illegal methods 42 00:02:14,260 --> 00:02:16,059 for getting their stories. 43 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:19,899 It's called Flat Earth News, and Nick Davies joins us now. 44 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:21,059 Good morning. Hi. 45 00:02:21,060 --> 00:02:24,579 You say "sloppy" because newspapers use press releases, 46 00:02:24,580 --> 00:02:27,059 rather than getting their own stories, 47 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:31,059 and "morally bankrupt" because of the illegality involved. 48 00:02:31,060 --> 00:02:34,059 Really, the root that binds together all the different themes 49 00:02:34,060 --> 00:02:36,059 is that the logic of journalism 50 00:02:36,060 --> 00:02:39,059 has been overwhelmed by the logic of commercialism. 51 00:02:39,060 --> 00:02:41,899 Journalists no longer have the time or the resources 52 00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:43,059 to do their jobs properly. 53 00:02:43,060 --> 00:02:45,059 Instead, they're just passive processors 54 00:02:45,060 --> 00:02:47,059 of unchecked second-hand material. 55 00:02:47,060 --> 00:02:50,059 OK, but you also... You go much further in suggesting 56 00:02:50,060 --> 00:02:52,059 that there has been criminality involved... 57 00:02:52,060 --> 00:02:53,060 Sure. 58 00:02:53,061 --> 00:02:56,059 .. and that's generally accepted within the press. 59 00:02:56,060 --> 00:02:59,059 OK. So, principally, that involves hiring private investigators. 60 00:02:59,060 --> 00:03:02,059 They hire private investigators to get your bank statements, 61 00:03:02,060 --> 00:03:04,419 your credit card statements, your itemised phone bills, 62 00:03:04,420 --> 00:03:06,059 your tax records, 63 00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:08,059 even your health records these creatures are getting. 64 00:03:08,060 --> 00:03:09,060 All of that is illegal. 65 00:03:09,061 --> 00:03:11,059 OK. We're joined by John Mullin, 66 00:03:11,060 --> 00:03:13,059 who is the editor of The Independent On Sunday, 67 00:03:13,060 --> 00:03:14,739 and Stuart Kuttner, 68 00:03:14,740 --> 00:03:17,059 who's managing editor of News Of The World. 69 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:20,059 John Mullin, do you recognise this? 70 00:03:20,060 --> 00:03:24,059 Well, I ploughed my way through the first half of the book, 71 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:26,059 not the second half so far, 72 00:03:26,060 --> 00:03:28,419 and no-one can deny that life in journalism 73 00:03:28,420 --> 00:03:32,059 is much harder than maybe it was 20, 30 years ago. 74 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:35,059 But to say that journalism as a whole 75 00:03:35,060 --> 00:03:37,099 is "a passive processor of news"? 76 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:39,059 I think that's erroneous. 77 00:03:39,060 --> 00:03:40,060 Stuart Kuttner? 78 00:03:40,061 --> 00:03:42,059 Yes, I'll tell you what I think. 79 00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:46,059 I think, frankly, listening to Nick Davies, 80 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:49,059 I thought he was speaking from a newsroom on another planet. 81 00:03:49,060 --> 00:03:52,059 It is totally unrecognisable to me. 82 00:03:52,060 --> 00:03:55,059 Many years in newspapers in Fleet Street. 83 00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:57,259 Now, of course, at the News Of The World. 84 00:03:57,260 --> 00:04:00,060 But what did he say that was so wrong? 85 00:04:01,060 --> 00:04:03,059 Well, he talks about, if you like, er, 86 00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:07,059 shortcuts, PR interests, commercial interests. 87 00:04:07,060 --> 00:04:11,059 I have to tell you, none of my News Of The World journalists 88 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:12,579 would recognise that at all. 89 00:04:12,580 --> 00:04:15,059 But what about the way these people get the stories 90 00:04:15,060 --> 00:04:18,059 and access to personal information? 91 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:22,059 Well, if it happens, it... it shouldn't happen. 92 00:04:22,060 --> 00:04:24,899 It happened once at the News Of The World. 93 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:26,059 The reporter was fired, 94 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:29,059 he went to prison, the editor resigned. 95 00:04:29,060 --> 00:04:32,059 And while Nick is talking about all this, 96 00:04:32,060 --> 00:04:33,060 I notice he doesn't mention 97 00:04:33,061 --> 00:04:35,899 The Guardian's own act of criminality, 98 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:39,059 when The Guardian forged the signature of a cabinet minister... 99 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:41,059 OK, I-I don't want to go into details of the story. 100 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:43,059 I think the charge that Nick Davies... 101 00:04:43,060 --> 00:04:45,059 Sarah, you may not want to go into detail, 102 00:04:45,060 --> 00:04:49,059 but Nick makes a broad-brush, sweeping attack on our profession, 103 00:04:49,060 --> 00:04:52,059 which I happen to believe is an honourable profession. 104 00:04:59,060 --> 00:05:00,060 Hello, Mr... 105 00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:08,059 Did you hear it? 106 00:05:08,060 --> 00:05:09,419 I wish I hadn't. 107 00:05:11,060 --> 00:05:13,059 You're too kind. 108 00:05:13,060 --> 00:05:16,059 I did say appearing on the Today programme to attack journalism 109 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:18,059 wasn't exactly the most sensible idea. 110 00:05:18,060 --> 00:05:21,059 Listen, before I go home, I wanted to talk to you about something. 111 00:05:21,060 --> 00:05:23,059 Good thing was, you weren't representing The Guardian. 112 00:05:23,060 --> 00:05:25,059 You were talking about your book. 113 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:27,059 My book. 114 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:30,059 Though Kuttner did have a good go at trying to besmirch us through you. 115 00:05:30,060 --> 00:05:31,060 I want out. 116 00:05:34,060 --> 00:05:36,259 Do you know anything about baking competitions? 117 00:05:36,260 --> 00:05:37,419 No. 118 00:05:37,420 --> 00:05:41,059 I want to know how many people cheat at baking competitions. 119 00:05:41,060 --> 00:05:42,060 A round number. 120 00:05:42,061 --> 00:05:44,059 Sounds like exactly the sort of thing 121 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:46,059 the Guardian should be investigating 122 00:05:46,060 --> 00:05:48,059 I don't mean out altogether. I'd like to go to Brussels. 123 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:51,059 Investigate a whole new horizon, something well paid... 124 00:05:51,060 --> 00:05:53,059 Naturally. .. that will allow me to commute. 125 00:05:53,060 --> 00:05:55,460 The kids are old enough now to be able to... I need you here. 126 00:05:59,060 --> 00:06:01,059 Sadiq Khan. Bugged. 127 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:03,059 40-year convention breached. 128 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:06,059 And why? Keep the Americans happy. 129 00:06:06,060 --> 00:06:07,060 Needs a good journalist. 130 00:06:07,061 --> 00:06:09,059 Alan, I'm knackered. Nobody likes me. I'm... 131 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:10,099 Oh, come on. 132 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,060 I like you... some of the time. 133 00:06:14,060 --> 00:06:17,060 And I'm sure there are a few others who-who also... Please. 134 00:06:18,060 --> 00:06:22,059 Self-pity is not a redeeming quality. We'll talk tomorrow. 135 00:06:22,060 --> 00:06:25,059 I'm freelance precisely so that I don't need to talk to you tomorrow. 136 00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:29,059 You're freelance with more or less a sole employer. 137 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:31,059 I say you should talk to me tomorrow. 138 00:06:31,060 --> 00:06:34,059 Mm. We've all been roasted by Stuart bloody Kuttner. 139 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,060 Bye. 140 00:06:43,060 --> 00:06:46,059 Let me explain. Alan is, erm... 141 00:06:46,060 --> 00:06:48,739 Well, we grew up together. In journalism, that is. 142 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:51,059 He's always understood... Sorry. 143 00:06:51,060 --> 00:06:52,259 Yep. 144 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:54,579 'Nick Davies?' Who's this? 145 00:06:54,580 --> 00:06:56,899 'My name is...' 146 00:06:56,900 --> 00:06:58,059 Redacted, sorry. 147 00:06:58,060 --> 00:07:00,059 We'll call him Mr Apollo because... 148 00:07:00,060 --> 00:07:03,059 Erm, well, actually, because he's... 149 00:07:03,060 --> 00:07:04,579 It... It doesn't matter. 150 00:07:04,580 --> 00:07:06,059 How did you get this number? 151 00:07:06,060 --> 00:07:08,059 'Listen, Kuttner made a mistake.' 152 00:07:08,060 --> 00:07:09,419 Well, I made several, 153 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:12,059 chief amongst them appearing on the Today programme. 154 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:14,059 'He said it happened once.' 155 00:07:14,060 --> 00:07:16,059 It happened once. 156 00:07:16,060 --> 00:07:17,739 It happened once at the News Of The World. 157 00:07:17,740 --> 00:07:19,099 The reporter was fired, 158 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:22,059 he went to prison, the editor resigned. 159 00:07:22,060 --> 00:07:24,259 You're talking about phone hacking. 160 00:07:24,260 --> 00:07:27,059 'Nick, your book only scratched the surface. 161 00:07:27,060 --> 00:07:31,259 'We have to meet face to face, somewhere absolutely discreet. 162 00:07:31,260 --> 00:07:33,059 'I think you'll like what I have.' 163 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:34,900 Where and when? 164 00:07:36,060 --> 00:07:38,059 In the beginning, it was next to nothing. 165 00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:41,099 Two men were arrested for hacking phones in 2006. 166 00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:43,419 A private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire... 167 00:07:43,420 --> 00:07:45,259 .. and the Royal Editor of The News Of The World, 168 00:07:45,260 --> 00:07:47,059 Clive Goodman. 169 00:07:47,060 --> 00:07:50,059 The sentences they received were short. 170 00:07:50,060 --> 00:07:53,419 The attention they got, limited. But the crime was unusual. 171 00:07:53,420 --> 00:07:56,059 They had discovered they could access 172 00:07:56,060 --> 00:07:58,099 other people's voicemail messages, 173 00:07:58,100 --> 00:08:00,099 and they spent months eavesdropping 174 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:04,059 on three of Prince William's staff at Clarence House. 175 00:08:04,060 --> 00:08:06,099 How? They didn't say. 176 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:08,059 Why? 177 00:08:08,060 --> 00:08:10,580 For the discovery of private information. 178 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:15,100 It was the start of the next six years of my life. 179 00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:34,059 To be clear, I've never told anyone who Mr Apollo is. 180 00:08:34,060 --> 00:08:35,300 So some guesses have been made. 181 00:08:38,060 --> 00:08:39,060 Bad guess. 182 00:08:45,060 --> 00:08:47,059 No. 183 00:08:50,060 --> 00:08:52,100 No. Sorry, it's not you. 184 00:08:54,740 --> 00:08:57,059 OK. 185 00:08:57,060 --> 00:08:58,060 Oh, come on. 186 00:09:05,060 --> 00:09:06,060 Hi. 187 00:09:06,061 --> 00:09:08,059 You coming in, or...? 188 00:09:08,060 --> 00:09:09,100 Sure. 189 00:09:13,060 --> 00:09:15,059 Wow, this is nice. 190 00:09:18,060 --> 00:09:20,060 Nice choice of room. 191 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:22,579 Just to check, is The Guardian paying? 192 00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:25,899 Because if so, I'd implore you to stay away from that minibar. 193 00:09:25,900 --> 00:09:29,059 Mulcaire, in the trial, he said he'd hacked other... 194 00:09:29,060 --> 00:09:31,059 Five non-royals. I remember, yes. 195 00:09:31,060 --> 00:09:33,060 Um, Elle Macpherson... 196 00:09:34,060 --> 00:09:36,060 Sky Andrew, Max Clifford... 197 00:09:37,060 --> 00:09:39,059 He's a liar. 198 00:09:39,060 --> 00:09:42,260 Kuttner is a liar, and one of the five is suing them. 199 00:09:44,580 --> 00:09:46,059 Which one? 200 00:09:46,060 --> 00:09:49,060 Well, that five is just the tip of the iceberg. 201 00:09:50,260 --> 00:09:52,059 Hacking phones at the News Of The World 202 00:09:52,060 --> 00:09:53,099 has been endemic. 203 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:55,059 Endemic? 204 00:09:55,060 --> 00:09:56,060 Mm. 205 00:09:57,260 --> 00:10:00,259 They pick up their leads by intercepting voicemails, 206 00:10:00,260 --> 00:10:03,059 and only then do they get photographs and quotes, 207 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:05,059 so as to lay a false trail, 208 00:10:05,060 --> 00:10:08,059 to pretend they found the story through legitimate means. 209 00:10:08,060 --> 00:10:09,060 They've hacked thousands. 210 00:10:10,060 --> 00:10:11,060 Here. 211 00:10:11,061 --> 00:10:13,060 Dial a number. 212 00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:15,460 Someone who's likely to not answer. 213 00:10:22,060 --> 00:10:24,059 'This is Alan Rusbridger. Please leave...' 214 00:10:24,060 --> 00:10:26,740 That's your phone-a-friend? The editor of The Guardian? 215 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:30,579 Press nine. 216 00:10:30,580 --> 00:10:32,899 'Please enter your 4-digit PIN.' 217 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:35,059 Enter one, two, three, four. That's the factory setting. 218 00:10:36,061 --> 00:10:38,059 'Welcome to your voicemail. 219 00:10:38,060 --> 00:10:41,059 'You have one new message.' 220 00:10:41,060 --> 00:10:42,579 'Alan, it's Mummy. 221 00:10:42,580 --> 00:10:44,059 'I'm just calling about Jill Wyatt. 222 00:10:44,060 --> 00:10:46,099 'She won best sponge again, and I'm sure she cheated.' 223 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:48,059 I don't wanna hear this. 224 00:10:48,060 --> 00:10:50,059 It's that easy? Mm. 225 00:10:50,060 --> 00:10:52,059 Doesn't even need a Glenn Mulcaire most of the time. 226 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:54,059 And you're saying this was widespread? 227 00:10:54,060 --> 00:10:57,059 Glenn's main job was that when it got tricky, 228 00:10:57,060 --> 00:10:59,059 unlike with your Alan, 229 00:10:59,060 --> 00:11:01,059 was to blag the mobile phone companies 230 00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:03,059 into resetting the celebrities' PIN codes 231 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:05,059 to their original factory setting. 232 00:11:05,060 --> 00:11:06,739 One, two, three, four. 233 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:09,059 That's Alan. 234 00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:10,419 Please. 235 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:12,419 'Who is this?' Hi, yeah, it's Nick. 236 00:11:12,420 --> 00:11:15,059 'Oh.' Listen, change the voicemail settings on your phone. 237 00:11:15,060 --> 00:11:17,059 'And how do I do that?' 238 00:11:17,060 --> 00:11:19,060 Ask a young person. I've got to go. Bye. 239 00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:21,739 Who is suing? 240 00:11:23,060 --> 00:11:26,739 The person who is, is currently trying to get Scotland Yard 241 00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:30,059 to hand over evidence they collected and did nothing with 242 00:11:30,060 --> 00:11:31,180 when they arrested Mulcaire. 243 00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:35,059 It's evidence that could... 244 00:11:35,060 --> 00:11:38,419 .. burn, fuck and destroy everything. Twice over. 245 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:42,060 You won't tell me which one of the five it is, will you? 246 00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:46,059 I will tell you... 247 00:11:46,060 --> 00:11:48,059 that you're missing two names. 248 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:51,059 Gordon Taylor and Simon Hughes. 249 00:11:51,060 --> 00:11:53,059 Will you go on the record? 250 00:11:55,060 --> 00:11:57,059 If you dig, it comes from you. 251 00:11:57,060 --> 00:11:58,899 I-I can... 252 00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:01,060 I can confirm things, but... 253 00:12:04,060 --> 00:12:07,739 Ah, it's just another story of journos behaving badly. 254 00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:09,059 You're not interested? 255 00:12:09,060 --> 00:12:12,059 It's interesting, but... you should talk to someone else. 256 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:14,059 Do you realise I could lose my job just by talking to you? 257 00:12:14,060 --> 00:12:16,419 Don't worry, this conversation never happened. 258 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:19,059 No, no, no. That's not my point, Nick. You... 259 00:12:19,060 --> 00:12:21,060 Think. Think who edited the paper. 260 00:12:23,060 --> 00:12:25,060 Think about where he sits now. 261 00:12:27,060 --> 00:12:29,060 You're talking about Andy Coulson. 262 00:12:31,060 --> 00:12:32,060 Stop him. 263 00:12:34,060 --> 00:12:35,060 Shit. 264 00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:50,419 'Mind the gap. Stand clear of the doors, please.' 265 00:12:50,420 --> 00:12:54,059 Andy Coulson, a rapid-ascent journalist. 266 00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:56,259 From a local reporter to Showbiz at The Sun, 267 00:12:56,260 --> 00:13:00,059 he was made editor of News Of The World in 2003. 268 00:13:00,060 --> 00:13:02,059 Even after he resigned in 2007 269 00:13:02,060 --> 00:13:03,060 over the original phone hacking case, 270 00:13:03,061 --> 00:13:05,059 it was seen as honourable, 271 00:13:05,060 --> 00:13:07,739 him carrying the can for the one rogue reporter. 272 00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:09,060 "Not me, really, guv." 273 00:13:11,060 --> 00:13:12,180 But if he was... If he is... 274 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:15,059 If this is endemic, 275 00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:18,059 he's David Cameron's communications director. 276 00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:21,260 For him to be involved in widespread criminality... 277 00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:26,060 No. No, bad idea. 278 00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:40,060 I'm not late. 279 00:13:40,061 --> 00:13:42,059 It would be fine if you were to be a bit late, 280 00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:43,060 so you don't need to be so worried. 281 00:13:43,061 --> 00:13:45,059 Are they ready? Are they ever ready? 282 00:13:45,060 --> 00:13:47,059 Kids? 283 00:13:47,060 --> 00:13:48,060 You OK? 284 00:13:48,061 --> 00:13:50,059 - Kids! - Yes, coming! 285 00:13:50,060 --> 00:13:52,059 Ooh, you're anxious to go, then. 286 00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:54,059 Sorry. How are you, etc? 287 00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:56,059 I'm fine, etc. Are you all right? 288 00:13:56,060 --> 00:13:57,060 Never better. 289 00:13:57,061 --> 00:13:59,059 Really? I heard you on the radio. 290 00:13:59,060 --> 00:14:02,059 Mm. That sort of performance help sales? 291 00:14:02,060 --> 00:14:03,060 Oh, I would doubt it. 292 00:14:03,060 --> 00:14:04,060 Mm. 293 00:14:05,260 --> 00:14:06,579 I'm, erm... 294 00:14:06,580 --> 00:14:09,059 I am worried about... BLEEP. 295 00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:11,059 I'm not going to reveal my child's name. 296 00:14:11,060 --> 00:14:14,059 Let's call him... Beans. 297 00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:16,059 He comes home, locks himself in his room. 298 00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:19,059 I have tried to talk to him, but... 299 00:14:19,060 --> 00:14:20,060 Avoids all questions. 300 00:14:20,061 --> 00:14:22,420 So, do we bring the school in? 301 00:14:25,060 --> 00:14:27,059 Let's get the details, make sure he wants the help. 302 00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:29,740 Oh, you sound like a journalist. 303 00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:32,060 Let me try. 304 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:36,060 Let me try. 305 00:14:38,260 --> 00:14:39,580 OK. 306 00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:55,060 Got a new recipe. 307 00:14:55,061 --> 00:14:57,419 OK, Dad. Stuffed tomato thing. 308 00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,059 Yeah, nice. Sounds good. 309 00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:01,059 I'll call you when it's ready. It's Turkish. 310 00:15:01,060 --> 00:15:02,419 Yep. So... 311 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:04,060 I met someone today. 312 00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:06,419 A source. 313 00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:10,059 'He was pissed off with what Kuttner said on the radio.' 314 00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:11,060 OK. 315 00:15:11,061 --> 00:15:14,059 Hacking was "endemic", he said, at News Of The World. 316 00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:16,059 And someone is now suing Scotland Yard 317 00:15:16,060 --> 00:15:18,059 for information on what was hacked. 318 00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:22,059 Now, I know... I know it's one of either Elle Macpherson, 319 00:15:22,060 --> 00:15:25,059 Simon Hughes, Gordon Taylor, Sky Andrew or Max Clifford. 320 00:15:25,060 --> 00:15:26,099 'But I don't know which one.' 321 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:28,099 What do you think? 322 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,059 Do I dig? 323 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:33,059 Try to find out who it is? If I find them, it might... 324 00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:34,060 we might get some evidence 325 00:15:34,061 --> 00:15:37,059 that proves foul play was a bit more widespread. 326 00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:39,059 Imagine what it does to Andy Coulson. He's about to... 327 00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:41,059 He could soon have keys to 10 Downing Street. 328 00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:43,099 Did Cameron do a fit-and-proper-person test on him? 329 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:46,059 'Did he even look into Coulson's past?' 330 00:15:46,060 --> 00:15:47,259 It's a good angle. 331 00:15:47,260 --> 00:15:51,059 'But another "tabloids behaving badly" story?' 332 00:15:51,060 --> 00:15:53,059 I said the same thing. 333 00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:56,059 And who wants to kick a bees' nest? 334 00:15:56,060 --> 00:15:57,580 Murdoch, you know? 335 00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:00,099 This source... 336 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:03,059 'Has he got under your skin?' 337 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:06,580 No. I just wanted to talk it out with someone. You. 338 00:16:07,260 --> 00:16:09,059 Ah. 339 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:12,059 Always grateful to be your sounding board. 340 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:13,060 'Go home, Alan.' 341 00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:16,059 Who says I'm in the office? 342 00:16:16,060 --> 00:16:18,060 'We'll always have Brussels. Bye.' 343 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:33,059 It's creepy when you do that. 344 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:35,059 Stare at me like that. 345 00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:36,060 How are you? 346 00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:38,060 Why are you asking? 347 00:16:38,061 --> 00:16:41,059 If there ever is anything you need to discuss... 348 00:16:41,060 --> 00:16:43,060 Yes, Dad. I know. 349 00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:08,059 I, erm... I-I never much liked school. 350 00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:09,060 I'm not being bullied. 351 00:17:09,061 --> 00:17:11,059 I always saw school as a necessity... 352 00:17:11,060 --> 00:17:13,059 Why does everyone always think I'm being bullied? 353 00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:15,060 .. not a virtue. There was a guy... 354 00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:18,100 .. who-who used to hit us. 355 00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:21,419 Another kid? 356 00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:23,060 Actually, a teacher. 357 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:26,060 He used to... 358 00:17:26,061 --> 00:17:28,059 God, he used to really scare me. 359 00:17:28,060 --> 00:17:30,059 I-I never used to do well. 360 00:17:30,060 --> 00:17:31,060 Erm... 361 00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:34,059 Well, I never used to do well with fear, 362 00:17:34,060 --> 00:17:36,259 but also, the thing I remember most clearly... 363 00:17:36,260 --> 00:17:38,060 rage. 364 00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:44,420 I heard you on the radio. 365 00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:47,900 You listen to the Today programme? 366 00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:51,060 Mum makes us listen to or read everything you do. 367 00:17:52,260 --> 00:17:54,059 "You've an impressive dad." 368 00:17:54,060 --> 00:17:56,059 And she says it like, 369 00:17:56,060 --> 00:17:59,059 "He may be a total dick, but he's impressive." 370 00:17:59,060 --> 00:18:01,060 HE SCOFFS All right. 371 00:18:04,060 --> 00:18:05,740 You know the story of the dung beetle? 372 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:08,099 God. Really, again? 373 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:10,059 If you want to fly free... 374 00:18:10,060 --> 00:18:12,059 First you have to eat a lot of shit. 375 00:18:12,060 --> 00:18:13,259 Sometimes you have to ignore bullies. 376 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,059 I'm not being bullied. Sometimes you... 377 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:16,060 you have to puncture them. 378 00:18:16,061 --> 00:18:18,099 I'm not, Dad. There's always a way to... 379 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:20,579 There's always a chance when the wankers... 380 00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:22,059 when they suddenly seem vulnerable. 381 00:18:22,060 --> 00:18:24,059 When they are... 382 00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:28,059 you have to clamp your pincers onto them as hard as possible. 383 00:18:28,060 --> 00:18:29,060 Do not let go. 384 00:18:37,060 --> 00:18:40,060 Tomatoes are in the oven. Ready in ten. They're Turkish. 385 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:43,060 I love you very much. 386 00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:53,420 'You stupid child! 387 00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:57,100 'You are SUCH a disappointment!' 388 00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:06,059 It won't surprise you to know we didn't get the rights 389 00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:08,060 to use their masthead. 390 00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:11,060 Or this one. 391 00:19:23,420 --> 00:19:25,059 Hi, it's Nick Davies. 392 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:28,059 You still have that contact at Scotland Yard? 393 00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:29,060 'No, sorry, mate. 394 00:19:29,061 --> 00:19:31,579 'I really cannot be getting involved with that one. 395 00:19:31,580 --> 00:19:32,739 'You know how it is.' 396 00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:35,059 But Andy Coulson will soon be sitting in Downing Street. 397 00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:38,059 'Yeah, and Murdoch's already sitting on Downing Street.' 398 00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:40,059 Yeah, I-I... 399 00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:41,259 Yes, I appreciate that. I understand. 400 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:43,059 If I could get some evidence of this... 401 00:19:43,060 --> 00:19:45,059 'No.' 'No.' 402 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:47,059 'No.' All right. Thanks. Bye. 403 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:54,059 Oh, hi. Thanks for calling back. 404 00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:56,059 Do you have the number for... Name redacted. 405 00:19:56,060 --> 00:19:58,060 See you later. Yeah. 406 00:19:59,060 --> 00:20:01,060 OK, great. Zero... 407 00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:06,059 ..seven, seven, zero, zero, nine, 408 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:10,059 zero, zero, nine, five, four. 409 00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:12,059 Got that. Thank you. 410 00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:14,059 Hi. I'm wondering whether I could speak to 411 00:20:14,060 --> 00:20:16,060 whoever represents Elle Macpherson. 412 00:20:19,060 --> 00:20:20,060 No, no, I'm not a fan. 413 00:20:20,061 --> 00:20:23,059 No, I'm wondering whether she's currently suing 414 00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:24,060 the News Of The World. 415 00:20:24,061 --> 00:20:26,059 Is that Max? 416 00:20:26,060 --> 00:20:28,059 Hi, it's Nick Davies. 417 00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:30,059 We met at The Orwell Prize. 418 00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:32,060 I'm actually after a bit of insight. 419 00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:36,060 Well, no. Just give me a chance... 420 00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:59,059 Detective Buzz Aldrin? 421 00:20:59,060 --> 00:21:00,060 Not his real name. 422 00:21:00,061 --> 00:21:02,059 My name is Nick Davies. I'm a Guardian journalist. 423 00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:04,059 I believe you were looking into the Clive Goodman case? 424 00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:05,579 I'm very busy, Mr Davies. 425 00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:08,059 I've followed your work, Buzz. I know how principled you are. 426 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:10,059 I think you know that this... what is happening here 427 00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:12,059 is acutely in the public interest, 428 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:14,059 and if it's all dealt with in behind-stairs deals, 429 00:21:14,060 --> 00:21:15,060 it'll help no-one. 430 00:21:15,061 --> 00:21:17,059 I can't talk to journalists. You don't have to talk. 431 00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:20,059 All I need to know is which of the five non-royal names 432 00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:22,059 in the Clive Goodman case is now suing the paper. 433 00:21:22,060 --> 00:21:23,060 Cough. 434 00:21:23,061 --> 00:21:25,059 That's all I ask. Cough when I hit the right name. 435 00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:26,060 You are very persistent. 436 00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:27,060 Because what I understand 437 00:21:27,061 --> 00:21:29,059 is that those five names represent thousands, 438 00:21:29,060 --> 00:21:30,259 thousands of people 439 00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:34,060 who've had their privacy stolen by this newspaper. Please. 440 00:21:35,060 --> 00:21:36,099 Elle Macpherson. 441 00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,060 Simon Hughes. 442 00:21:39,420 --> 00:21:41,059 Gordon Taylor. 443 00:21:42,061 --> 00:21:43,260 Thank you. 444 00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:46,060 You did the right thing. 445 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:05,059 Sorry, excuse me. Charlotte Harris? 446 00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:06,060 Nick Davies at The Guardian. 447 00:22:06,061 --> 00:22:08,059 I believe you represent Gordon Taylor. 448 00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:09,060 I'm due in court. 449 00:22:09,061 --> 00:22:12,059 I understand that he's suing News Of The World for breach of privacy. 450 00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:14,059 Mr Davies, whether or not Mr Taylor is my client, 451 00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:16,059 I have no interest in talking to any press. Sorry. 452 00:22:16,060 --> 00:22:19,059 These so-called journalists... 453 00:22:19,060 --> 00:22:21,059 bring our whole industry into disrepute. 454 00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:22,060 You're very persistent. 455 00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:25,059 Well, can you... 456 00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:28,059 can you tell me, then, about John Hewison? 457 00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:30,059 He's also a claimant, is he not? 458 00:22:30,060 --> 00:22:31,579 And the interesting thing is, 459 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:33,579 if you ask the public who those two are, 460 00:22:33,580 --> 00:22:35,059 they might know Taylor. 461 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:37,059 They wouldn't know Hewison because he's a lawyer. 462 00:22:37,060 --> 00:22:38,899 Like you. 463 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,059 He's entrusted with the secrets of others, 464 00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:43,059 in the secrets of sports stars, in his case, 465 00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:46,739 which makes him interesting to the News Of The World. 466 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:48,579 This is a news operation, 467 00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:51,059 which is trying to undermine the confidentiality 468 00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:54,059 that crucially underlies your profession. 469 00:22:54,060 --> 00:22:56,059 If you want to fight it... 470 00:22:56,060 --> 00:22:58,899 well, you're a tiger, but they're lions. 471 00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:00,060 The Guardian's a lion too. 472 00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:04,059 Well, what if I'm neither a lion nor a tiger? 473 00:23:04,060 --> 00:23:06,060 What if... I am a walrus? 474 00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:10,059 Walruses can be fierce. 475 00:23:10,060 --> 00:23:11,060 And what if you're a... 476 00:23:11,061 --> 00:23:13,059 See, I'm trying to think of an annoying animal. 477 00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:15,059 Has Mr Taylor settled? 478 00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:17,419 What evidence do you have? Are there other claimants? 479 00:23:17,420 --> 00:23:20,739 I'm sure you must... you must be looking to engage more clients. 480 00:23:20,740 --> 00:23:22,419 Privacy cases like this can sometimes... 481 00:23:22,420 --> 00:23:25,059 What did Max Mosley get? 482 00:23:25,060 --> 00:23:27,059 £60,000 and costs. 483 00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:29,059 Line enough up, you could have a class-action suit 484 00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:30,259 worth a lot of money. 485 00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:32,739 You were doing well, reasonably well, 486 00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:35,059 until you brought money into it. 487 00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:37,059 I can't talk to you about specific cases, 488 00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:39,060 but I can tell you... 489 00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:43,060 ..I can tell you that there is so much more to come. 490 00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:02,060 Yep. 491 00:24:02,061 --> 00:24:03,739 'You've got the name.' 492 00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:06,059 Mr Apollo, you're back. 493 00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:08,059 Are you watching me? 494 00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:10,220 'I take it you're still interested in this case, then?' 495 00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:18,099 The deer is in the fireplace. The lion is alight. 496 00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:21,059 Wh-What the fuck are you doing? 497 00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:23,059 Sorry, I... I have a tendency to make jokes. 498 00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:25,060 I was trying to... trying to be a Russian spy. 499 00:24:26,580 --> 00:24:29,059 We could be spotted at any moment. Do you know the risks? 500 00:24:29,060 --> 00:24:30,060 I do. Sorry. 501 00:24:32,060 --> 00:24:34,059 So, you found the lawyer. 502 00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:36,059 Is this some kind of a test? 503 00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:37,419 Do I get a prize at the end of it? 504 00:24:37,420 --> 00:24:40,059 Do you know how much they're settling for? No. 505 00:24:41,061 --> 00:24:46,059 £400,000 in damages, another £300,000 in legal expenses, 506 00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:49,059 and their associates are getting £140,000 in damages, 507 00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:50,899 plus their legal. 508 00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:54,059 The whole package comes in at just over a million pounds. 509 00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:55,060 Now, that's a lot, 510 00:24:55,061 --> 00:24:57,419 even for News International, to stomach. 511 00:24:57,420 --> 00:24:59,060 But... 512 00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:01,060 Max Mosley was... 513 00:25:01,061 --> 00:25:04,059 They accused him of being a Nazi at an orgy. 514 00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:05,060 All he got was... 515 00:25:05,061 --> 00:25:08,060 Was £60,000, yes. Now you're getting it. 516 00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:12,059 Look, I need... 517 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:14,579 I need paperwork, or-or audio recording, 518 00:25:14,580 --> 00:25:16,059 some sort of hard evidence. 519 00:25:16,060 --> 00:25:17,419 I don't even have to publish it. 520 00:25:17,420 --> 00:25:19,899 I just need to be able to show The Guardian. 521 00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:22,059 The preliminary hearings in 2007, they're public record. 522 00:25:22,060 --> 00:25:23,580 That's not enough. 523 00:25:25,060 --> 00:25:26,060 Mm. 524 00:25:28,260 --> 00:25:30,060 Right. 525 00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:36,059 What is it? You'll work it out. 526 00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:37,060 Can I use it? Nope. 527 00:25:37,061 --> 00:25:39,059 I need to be able to use it. 528 00:25:39,060 --> 00:25:41,059 Summarise it, yes. 529 00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:42,060 Show it to your editor, yes. 530 00:25:42,061 --> 00:25:44,419 Quote from it, no. 531 00:25:44,420 --> 00:25:46,060 Can I have your number? 532 00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:49,060 Be careful, Nick. 533 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:52,060 This could get nasty. 534 00:26:08,420 --> 00:26:11,099 I have a piece on MPs' expenses I want you to have a look at. 535 00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:13,059 OK. Do you want some gingerbread? 536 00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:15,059 My mother made it. It's not very good. 537 00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:16,419 I have evidence. 538 00:26:16,420 --> 00:26:18,099 How long did that take you to get? 539 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:20,900 Maybe two months. And you've never mentioned it? 540 00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:24,099 They're paying out millions to cover this up. 541 00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:25,580 This is a story. 542 00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:29,899 Nick, newspapers reporting on newspapers... 543 00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:33,059 But the editor of that newspaper is about to enter government. 544 00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:37,059 If Andy Coulson was complicit in hacking phones as an editor, 545 00:26:37,060 --> 00:26:39,180 imagine what he might do to enemies of the Government. 546 00:26:41,060 --> 00:26:42,419 Show me what you have. 547 00:26:42,420 --> 00:26:44,060 OK, so... 548 00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:47,059 Printout of an email. 549 00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:52,059 Ross. hindley@news-of-the-world to shadowmen@yahoo.co.uk. 550 00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:54,419 It's Glenn Mulcaire's email. His email was "shadowmen"? 551 00:26:54,420 --> 00:26:57,059 Mm. It says, "Transcript for Neville. 552 00:26:57,060 --> 00:26:59,059 "Wednesday, 29th of June, 2005." 553 00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:00,259 I can read. 554 00:27:00,260 --> 00:27:02,739 And Neville is...? 555 00:27:02,740 --> 00:27:05,059 Neville Thurlbeck. Chief reporter at News Of The World. 556 00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:09,059 There are transcripts of 35 voicemail messages 557 00:27:09,060 --> 00:27:12,059 which had been left on the phones of Gordon Taylor and a colleague. 558 00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:13,060 It wasn't just Clive Goodman. 559 00:27:13,061 --> 00:27:15,060 And then there's this. 560 00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:18,099 Greg Miskiw, assistant editor, 561 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:22,059 approving a payment of £7,000 to Mulcaire 562 00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:24,579 for a story on Gordon Taylor. 563 00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:27,059 And the police have access to all of this and more. 564 00:27:27,060 --> 00:27:28,060 Can we use these? 565 00:27:28,061 --> 00:27:29,900 No. 566 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,060 Can we get your Mr Apollo to speak on the record? 567 00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:36,059 How long have we known each other? 568 00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:38,059 I've no idea. 569 00:27:38,060 --> 00:27:40,059 And no interest in trying to work that out. 570 00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:41,060 It'll make me feel old. 571 00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:42,060 Nearly 30 years. 572 00:27:42,061 --> 00:27:44,059 This is it, Alan. 573 00:27:44,060 --> 00:27:46,059 There is an industry making huge profit 574 00:27:46,060 --> 00:27:48,059 from invading people's private lives, 575 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:50,059 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids 576 00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:52,060 have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it. 577 00:27:57,060 --> 00:27:59,060 This matters. 578 00:28:04,060 --> 00:28:05,100 Tin hats on. 579 00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:09,060 Good. OK. 580 00:28:12,060 --> 00:28:15,059 I'll-I'll let you know when I've got something. 581 00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:17,060 Thanks, Alan. 582 00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:20,579 'You may think you lead a private life, 583 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:22,419 'but The Guardian has uncovered evidence 584 00:28:22,420 --> 00:28:24,739 'to suggest otherwise. 585 00:28:24,740 --> 00:28:29,059 'This strange story began in 2006 with the arrest of two men. 586 00:28:29,060 --> 00:28:31,099 'The News Of The World Royal Editor, Clive Goodman, 587 00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:34,099 'and private investigator Glenn Mulcaire. 588 00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:37,059 'The men pled guilty to phone hacking charges 589 00:28:37,060 --> 00:28:38,259 'and served prison sentences. 590 00:28:38,260 --> 00:28:41,739 'Following an investigation, the paper told the world 591 00:28:41,740 --> 00:28:44,059 'that hacking was the work of "one rogue reporter". 592 00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:47,059 'The story should have ended there. 593 00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:48,060 'But it didn't.' 594 00:29:02,060 --> 00:29:04,059 'From the beginning on, 595 00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:07,059 'newspapers have prospered for one reason - 596 00:29:07,060 --> 00:29:09,059 'giving readers the news they want.' 597 00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:11,059 Shit. 598 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:15,899 Shit! Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit! 599 00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:20,259 Keep it simple. 600 00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:22,579 'Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers 601 00:29:22,580 --> 00:29:24,899 'had paid out more than £1,000,000 602 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:27,099 'to settle legal cases that threatened to reveal evidence 603 00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:29,059 'of his journalists' repeated involvement 604 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:32,059 'in the use of criminal methods to get stories.' 605 00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:35,059 "The payments secured secrecy over out-of-court settlements 606 00:29:35,060 --> 00:29:38,059 "in three cases that threatened to expose evidence 607 00:29:38,060 --> 00:29:41,059 "of Murdoch journalists using private investigators 608 00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:44,259 "to illegally hack into the mobile phone messages 609 00:29:44,260 --> 00:29:46,059 "of numerous public figures. 610 00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:49,059 "Cabinet ministers, MPs, actors and sports stars 611 00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:51,059 "were all targets of private investigators." 612 00:29:51,060 --> 00:29:53,059 Are you sure we can safely list all those groups? 613 00:29:53,060 --> 00:29:56,059 We already have evidence of actors, Elle Macpherson, 614 00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:58,059 sport stars, Sky Andrew... MPs, then? 615 00:29:58,060 --> 00:30:00,059 I have an invoice, er, 616 00:30:00,060 --> 00:30:02,059 recording a payment to a private investigator 617 00:30:02,060 --> 00:30:03,099 showing John Prescott had been targeted. 618 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:04,419 It's likely hacking. 619 00:30:04,420 --> 00:30:07,059 This article has no named sources, no evidence on the record. 620 00:30:07,060 --> 00:30:09,059 Alan thinks we have enough. I do too. 621 00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:11,059 And we haven't got right of reply. 622 00:30:11,060 --> 00:30:12,899 It's a declaration of bloody war. 623 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:14,419 Murdoch and Brooks, they have nuclear weapons. 624 00:30:14,420 --> 00:30:16,059 Right now, they do. 625 00:30:16,060 --> 00:30:18,059 But we can neuter their nuclear weapons with this. 626 00:30:18,060 --> 00:30:20,059 If we do, Fleet Street will fall in behind us, 627 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:22,059 the police soon after. And they have... 628 00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:24,059 When they find the information they already have. 629 00:30:24,060 --> 00:30:25,060 Information they've lost? 630 00:30:25,061 --> 00:30:27,059 Information they don't know they have. 631 00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:28,099 This is The Met we're talking about. 632 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,059 Look, once we publish, they'll be forced to act. 633 00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:33,059 Can we name Coulson? 634 00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:35,259 Now you're worried I haven't gone far enough. 635 00:30:35,260 --> 00:30:37,419 No, it makes it more in the public interest 636 00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:39,059 if we can name him. 637 00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:41,059 I did ring Conservative HQ - right to reply, Gill. 638 00:30:41,060 --> 00:30:43,059 I asked about the Gordon Taylor settlement. 639 00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:45,059 His office replied - it "didn't ring any bells". 640 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:47,059 We've nothing that directly links him. 641 00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:48,060 I agree. 642 00:30:48,061 --> 00:30:50,059 But... 643 00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:52,059 we can say... 644 00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:54,059 that he was the editor in place 645 00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:57,059 when journalists for whom he was responsible, etc, etc, etc... 646 00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:59,059 That's good. 647 00:30:59,060 --> 00:31:00,100 That's good. 648 00:31:03,060 --> 00:31:04,060 Yes? 649 00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:08,100 I'm uneasy. But if you're sure... 650 00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:13,060 I am. 651 00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:19,580 It reads well. 652 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:27,060 OK. 653 00:31:34,060 --> 00:31:38,059 At half past five in the afternoon on Wednesday, 8th of July, 2009, 654 00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:41,059 we posted my news story on The Guardian website. 655 00:31:41,060 --> 00:31:44,059 As it ran, The Guardian news desk asked a reporter, Caroline Davies, 656 00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:46,419 to call John Prescott, ex-Deputy Prime Minister, 657 00:31:46,420 --> 00:31:47,740 to get a quote. 658 00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:52,059 I told him the gist of the story, and he said, "Fookin' 'ell!" 659 00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:54,059 'You'd have thought the police, 660 00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:55,579 'in the committing of a criminal offence, 661 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:57,059 'as, clearly, it is, against anyone, 662 00:31:57,060 --> 00:31:59,259 'and particularly, you'd have thought, a Cabinet member, 663 00:31:59,260 --> 00:32:01,059 'they would have told me about it. 664 00:32:01,060 --> 00:32:03,059 'I would have asked them, "What are you gonna do about it?" ' 665 00:32:03,060 --> 00:32:05,059 Prescott roared. 666 00:32:05,060 --> 00:32:07,060 But the house fell silent. 667 00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:10,060 Anyone? 668 00:32:13,060 --> 00:32:14,060 Anyone? 669 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:21,059 And Fleet Street, well... 670 00:32:23,740 --> 00:32:28,059 Fleet Street essentially did their best to ignore the story. 671 00:32:28,060 --> 00:32:31,059 Ask any journalist what a great story depends on. 672 00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:32,260 They'll say the same thing. 673 00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:35,059 A new angle. 674 00:32:35,060 --> 00:32:37,059 One at least journalists can get behind. 675 00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:39,059 We are reliant on our own profession 676 00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:42,059 to follow up on stories so they have impact. 677 00:32:42,060 --> 00:32:45,059 To make a story newsworthy requires multiple news outlets. 678 00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:46,259 But on this one... 679 00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:48,060 crickets. 680 00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:51,059 My company couldn't have settled the legal action 681 00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:52,060 like The Guardian claims. 682 00:32:52,061 --> 00:32:54,059 If they had done, I'd have known about it. 683 00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:56,419 I tried to get this out as wide as possible. 684 00:32:56,420 --> 00:32:58,899 I talked on radio stations, TV shows. 685 00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:01,259 I took constant calls from agents of public figures asking, 686 00:33:01,260 --> 00:33:03,059 "Am I on that list?" 687 00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:04,060 I slept about four hours. 688 00:33:04,061 --> 00:33:06,579 And then, at five in the afternoon, 689 00:33:06,580 --> 00:33:09,059 I was surprised to hear that John Yates, 690 00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:11,099 Assistant Commissioner of Scotland Yard, 691 00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,579 was preparing to make a statement. 692 00:33:13,580 --> 00:33:15,059 Good afternoon. 693 00:33:15,060 --> 00:33:18,059 I was not involved in the original case 694 00:33:18,060 --> 00:33:21,059 and clearly come at this with an independent mind. 695 00:33:21,060 --> 00:33:22,060 In my opinion, what I've seen 696 00:33:22,061 --> 00:33:26,099 is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives. 697 00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:30,059 He proceeded to gently demolish our work. 698 00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:32,059 We'd suggested there were thousands of victims. 699 00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:36,059 The potential targets may have run into hundreds of people. 700 00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:39,059 But our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic 701 00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:42,059 against a far smaller number of individuals. 702 00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:44,059 And since no additional evidence has come to light, 703 00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:46,579 I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry. 704 00:33:46,580 --> 00:33:49,059 Thank you. That's all for today. 705 00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:51,259 Does that mean The Guardian fabricated the story? 706 00:33:55,060 --> 00:33:57,059 '.. may have run into hundreds of people. 707 00:33:57,060 --> 00:34:00,059 'But our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic 708 00:34:00,060 --> 00:34:02,059 'against a far smaller number of individuals. 709 00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:04,739 'And since no additional evidence has come to light, 710 00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:07,059 'I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry.' 711 00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:10,059 'That was Assistant Commissioner John Yates, 712 00:34:10,060 --> 00:34:12,060 'speaking in response to...' 713 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:17,099 What is it? 714 00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:19,259 The police haven't backed us, 715 00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:23,059 and Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 716 00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,059 He was Director of Public Prosecutions then. 717 00:34:25,060 --> 00:34:27,419 But he doesn't consider there was anything inappropriate 718 00:34:27,420 --> 00:34:30,059 in the prosecutions undertaken in this case. 719 00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:32,059 We are being squashed. 720 00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:36,059 We need to speak to your Mr Apollo. We need to get him on the record. 721 00:34:36,060 --> 00:34:37,099 He... Mm. 722 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:40,059 No, he can contact me. I can't contact him. 723 00:34:40,060 --> 00:34:41,060 Nick. 724 00:34:43,060 --> 00:34:46,059 Our colleagues upstairs are gravely concerned. 725 00:34:46,060 --> 00:34:48,059 Is it possible you were set up? 726 00:34:48,060 --> 00:34:50,059 No, this is right. I've... 727 00:34:50,060 --> 00:34:53,059 We've used no named sources, no quotes from documents. 728 00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:55,060 We should never have published. 729 00:34:56,060 --> 00:35:00,059 And Murdoch has set his attack dogs on us in the Commons. 730 00:35:00,060 --> 00:35:03,059 They're briefing that we can't back up our story. 731 00:35:03,060 --> 00:35:06,060 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 732 00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:08,259 That doesn't sound great. 733 00:35:08,260 --> 00:35:11,059 They want to barbecue you, Nick, 734 00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:13,060 and John Yates has given them permission. 735 00:35:16,060 --> 00:35:17,060 I'm sorry. I, er... 736 00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:20,580 I've read the runes wrong here. 737 00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:24,059 The Guardian are putting together a statement. 738 00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:26,059 What kind of statement? 739 00:35:26,060 --> 00:35:27,060 I'll know when I see it. 740 00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:30,059 I feel like I'm having a heart attack. 741 00:35:33,060 --> 00:35:34,900 Why is everybody doing this? 742 00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:09,059 My mother was a strong character. 743 00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:12,059 Intelligent, forceful, imaginative. 744 00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:16,059 Trapped, as she believed, in domestic drudgery. She had... 745 00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:19,059 She had a furious temper. 746 00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:22,059 This wasn't the 1950s toxic ideal of "Spare the rod and spoil the child". 747 00:36:22,060 --> 00:36:24,259 This was mad beatings, 748 00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:27,259 when she came after us with a black-eyed fury, 749 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:30,059 armed with whatever weapon she had to hand - 750 00:36:30,060 --> 00:36:34,060 a dog lead, a slipper, a riding crop, a rope. 751 00:36:36,060 --> 00:36:37,580 Are you ready to say you're sorry? 752 00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:41,060 No. 753 00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:50,059 I'd been working as a journalist for a couple of decades, 754 00:36:50,060 --> 00:36:52,059 thinking I was interested in criminal justice 755 00:36:52,060 --> 00:36:53,259 and social problems, 756 00:36:53,260 --> 00:36:56,059 when I saw that I was being drawn to stories, 757 00:36:56,060 --> 00:36:58,060 again and again, with the same theme. 758 00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:02,059 A deep-seated urge to hit back... 759 00:37:03,060 --> 00:37:04,060 ..at anybody at all... 760 00:37:04,061 --> 00:37:05,739 Mr Davies! 761 00:37:05,740 --> 00:37:07,059 .. who takes power and abuses it. 762 00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:08,419 Stupid child! 763 00:37:55,060 --> 00:37:57,059 Yeah, so, I tried hitting him back. 764 00:37:57,060 --> 00:37:58,900 Why? 765 00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:01,060 Seething rage. 766 00:38:02,060 --> 00:38:04,060 I thought he looked vulnerable. 767 00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:06,060 Oh. 768 00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:09,060 Didn't work. 769 00:38:09,061 --> 00:38:10,740 No. 770 00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:14,059 You look terrible. 771 00:38:14,060 --> 00:38:15,060 Thank you. 772 00:38:17,060 --> 00:38:18,060 What happened to you? 773 00:38:18,061 --> 00:38:20,060 You asking me or him? 774 00:38:22,060 --> 00:38:26,059 OK, so, I need to take you to your mum's tonight. 775 00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:29,059 Erm... She says she's cool with it if you are. 776 00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:30,100 Yeah, sure, I don't mind. 777 00:38:40,060 --> 00:38:43,059 'It's been a day of statement and counter-statement 778 00:38:43,060 --> 00:38:44,899 'in the phone hacking affair, 779 00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,059 'with News International angrily refuting 780 00:38:47,060 --> 00:38:50,059 'all the allegations made by The Guardian. 781 00:38:50,060 --> 00:38:52,059 'With the editor and the reporter 782 00:38:52,060 --> 00:38:54,059 'due to appear at the Media Select Committee, 783 00:38:54,060 --> 00:38:57,739 'certain publications are claiming a leftist agenda 784 00:38:57,740 --> 00:39:00,059 'against the News Of The World by The Guardian 785 00:39:00,060 --> 00:39:03,099 'and calling for legal action to be taken against the organisation 786 00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:05,059 'if they can't back up 787 00:39:05,060 --> 00:39:08,060 'spurious claims made against Murdoch's paper.' 788 00:39:15,060 --> 00:39:17,060 - Hi. - Hello. 789 00:39:20,060 --> 00:39:22,059 See you, kids. Hi, kids. 790 00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:24,059 Oh, hang on... I'm fine, Mum. I'm fine. 791 00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:26,059 It's my fault. 792 00:39:26,060 --> 00:39:27,900 Sorry. Bad advice. 793 00:39:29,060 --> 00:39:31,060 Coffee? I'll... 794 00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:34,899 Thanks for this. I'll see you Monday. I'm sorry. 795 00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:36,059 Nick? Yeah? 796 00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:37,099 Have you eaten? 797 00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:40,059 When? In the last day. 798 00:39:40,060 --> 00:39:41,060 I'm just... 799 00:39:41,061 --> 00:39:44,059 a bit tired. I'm not... I'm not really at my best. 800 00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:47,060 I need to think. And the... 801 00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:52,059 ..House of Commons Select Committee want to see us tomorrow. 802 00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:54,059 And The Guardian have got this message 803 00:39:54,060 --> 00:39:57,059 that their PR have written, that is... that is just... 804 00:39:57,060 --> 00:39:59,060 All right. OK. 805 00:40:00,060 --> 00:40:02,059 You look worse than he does. Let's... 806 00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:04,059 I didn't tell him to fight back. 807 00:40:04,060 --> 00:40:07,059 I told him to pick his moment. I didn't want him to hit someone. 808 00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:08,060 Shit. 809 00:40:08,061 --> 00:40:10,060 It's all right. 810 00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:12,060 Come on. 811 00:40:13,060 --> 00:40:15,419 Sit down. Sit down. 812 00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:17,060 Soup OK? 813 00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:24,059 What do I do? 814 00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:26,059 How do I make it better? 815 00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:29,059 Er, well, we will talk to the school. 816 00:40:29,060 --> 00:40:31,059 You think they'll do better? 817 00:40:31,060 --> 00:40:33,060 It's a good school. 818 00:40:35,060 --> 00:40:36,099 Things have changed, you know. 819 00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:40,060 Teachers, parents, they're not allowed to do... 820 00:40:41,060 --> 00:40:43,060 There's systems, right? 821 00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:46,060 I thought about her. 822 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:49,060 Earlier today, I was reading this... 823 00:40:51,060 --> 00:40:55,059 .. papier-mache, over-apologetic PR nonsense, 824 00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:58,059 and I thought about all the times I'd gone to her and apologised. 825 00:40:58,060 --> 00:41:00,059 And all the times that I... 826 00:41:00,060 --> 00:41:02,060 And then my son gets a face like that. 827 00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:06,060 OK. 828 00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:10,260 I'm gonna make the sofa up. You're staying here tonight. 829 00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:14,060 And I'll just put this soup on. 830 00:41:46,060 --> 00:41:47,060 'Hi.' 831 00:41:47,061 --> 00:41:49,059 I can't read that statement. 832 00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:51,059 A retraction at this time... 833 00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:53,059 you're asking me to say I was wrong. 834 00:41:53,060 --> 00:41:56,419 If we can't get Mr Apollo on the record, 835 00:41:56,420 --> 00:41:58,099 then we need to make a retraction. 836 00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:02,060 You know getting him on the record is impossible. 837 00:42:03,060 --> 00:42:05,059 Then I'm afraid you'll have to make that statement 838 00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:06,579 to the Select Committee tomorrow. 839 00:42:06,580 --> 00:42:09,059 If you make me read it out, I won't come. 840 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:11,059 If you don't come... 841 00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:13,060 we're fucked. 842 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:17,060 Oh. 843 00:42:45,060 --> 00:42:47,099 Carl Bernstein, one of the great reporters 844 00:42:47,100 --> 00:42:50,059 who exposed the Watergate scandal, said, 845 00:42:50,060 --> 00:42:54,059 "I think all good reporting is the same thing. 846 00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:57,059 "The best attainable version of the truth." 847 00:42:57,060 --> 00:43:01,059 The best attainable version of the truth. 848 00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:03,260 The best attainable... So, no matter what, you've got... 849 00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:06,060 ..you've got to... 850 00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:26,060 Morning. 851 00:43:26,061 --> 00:43:29,739 Hi. Does this, erm, printer-scanner thing still work? 852 00:43:29,740 --> 00:43:31,059 Er... 853 00:43:31,060 --> 00:43:32,060 Yeah, that one does. Coffee? 854 00:43:32,061 --> 00:43:36,059 And do you have some black paper and some glue and some scissors? 855 00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:38,059 Aw, are you making me a collage, Nick? 856 00:43:38,060 --> 00:43:41,059 Might need the kids to be slightly late for school. 857 00:43:41,060 --> 00:43:43,060 Right. Why? 858 00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:48,059 OK, so, these are emails 859 00:43:48,060 --> 00:43:51,059 written to a journalist, that's Neville, 860 00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:52,060 with transcriptions 861 00:43:52,061 --> 00:43:55,059 of a man called Gordon Taylor's voicemail messages. 862 00:43:55,060 --> 00:43:57,059 What I need you to do is to block out all the sections 863 00:43:57,060 --> 00:43:59,059 which are clearly transcribed from those voicemails. 864 00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:01,059 Leave everything else visible. 865 00:44:01,060 --> 00:44:03,059 Should be able to tell which bits are which. Any doubts, just ask. 866 00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:06,059 Mm. May I ask, why aren't you doing this at The Guardian, 867 00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:07,419 with some sort of vague professionalism? 868 00:44:07,420 --> 00:44:09,059 Alan can't know. 869 00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:11,060 Your editor can't know? 870 00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:13,899 Because I can't have him tell anyone else. 871 00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:16,059 Oh, yeah, that man is a gossip. 872 00:44:16,060 --> 00:44:17,060 Fleet Street can't know about this. 873 00:44:17,061 --> 00:44:20,059 As far as they know, I'm walking naked into that committee room. 874 00:44:20,060 --> 00:44:22,059 I was just trying to protect my editor. 875 00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:23,060 And my newspaper. 876 00:44:23,060 --> 00:44:24,060 And you? 877 00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:28,060 What sort of danger are you putting yourself in here? 878 00:44:57,580 --> 00:44:58,740 Nick. 879 00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:03,259 How are you, Alan? 880 00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:06,059 I'm fine. Bit tired. 881 00:45:06,060 --> 00:45:08,059 Something interrupted my sleep last night. 882 00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:09,740 I hate it when that happens. 883 00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:13,060 I hate all of this. 884 00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:16,579 Sorry if I've made your life difficult. 885 00:45:16,580 --> 00:45:18,419 My life? 886 00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:20,060 This is bigger than me. 887 00:45:22,060 --> 00:45:23,060 You could have brought down 888 00:45:23,061 --> 00:45:26,059 the whole Guardian newspaper with this one. 889 00:45:26,060 --> 00:45:28,059 But what a way to go. 890 00:45:28,060 --> 00:45:29,419 I mean... 891 00:45:29,420 --> 00:45:31,899 consider the glory. 892 00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:33,899 "I, Nick Davies, 893 00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:38,059 "have destroyed, utterly destroyed, 894 00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:42,059 "close to 200 years of journalistic endeavour." 895 00:45:42,060 --> 00:45:44,060 You're an absolute... God! 896 00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:47,419 God, I can't even think what you are. 897 00:45:47,420 --> 00:45:49,060 You're awful. 898 00:45:51,060 --> 00:45:55,059 You know what Peter Preston told me when I took over the editor's desk? 899 00:45:55,060 --> 00:45:57,059 "Why in hell did they choose you?" 900 00:45:57,060 --> 00:46:00,059 "Don't join the club." 901 00:46:00,060 --> 00:46:02,059 He'd had to make adjustments to the paper 902 00:46:02,060 --> 00:46:05,059 after the move from Manchester, and he didn't... 903 00:46:05,060 --> 00:46:09,579 well, he wouldn't be part of the media cabal. 904 00:46:09,580 --> 00:46:12,059 He liked being on the edge of Fleet Street. 905 00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:15,060 He considered it part of our DNA. 906 00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:18,900 Last night in bed, I realised something. 907 00:46:20,060 --> 00:46:23,059 What you've done, bringing us here, 908 00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:26,060 is in the line of great Guardian coups. 909 00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:31,420 But I do want to keep the newspaper I've been entrusted with alive. 910 00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:35,059 Are you reading the statement? 911 00:46:35,060 --> 00:46:36,060 No. 912 00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:39,260 But I do have things to say. 913 00:46:42,260 --> 00:46:45,059 If you go too far, I will squeeze your leg, 914 00:46:45,060 --> 00:46:47,060 and you will stop. 915 00:46:48,060 --> 00:46:50,060 I've got a paper to protect. 916 00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:55,060 And you, be sure to protect yourself. 917 00:46:56,060 --> 00:46:58,059 Tin hats on. 918 00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:01,059 Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 919 00:47:01,060 --> 00:47:03,059 Now, we have a lot of questions, 920 00:47:03,060 --> 00:47:05,059 so try to keep opening statements short. 921 00:47:05,060 --> 00:47:07,419 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 922 00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:12,060 But I do have... There is a lot for me to say. 923 00:47:16,060 --> 00:47:19,059 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, 924 00:47:19,060 --> 00:47:21,060 copies of an email.