1 00:00:16,233 --> 00:00:17,933 Previously on The Hack... 2 00:00:18,033 --> 00:00:21,092 Hacking phones of the News of the World has been endemic. 3 00:00:21,397 --> 00:00:22,497 Endemic? 4 00:00:22,597 --> 00:00:23,697 They've hacked thousands. 5 00:00:23,797 --> 00:00:25,497 There is an industry making huge profit 6 00:00:25,597 --> 00:00:27,017 from invading peoples' private lives 7 00:00:27,117 --> 00:00:28,936 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids 8 00:00:29,036 --> 00:00:31,296 have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it. 9 00:00:31,396 --> 00:00:32,616 Charlotte Harris? 10 00:00:32,716 --> 00:00:34,295 Nick Davies of The Guardian. 11 00:00:34,395 --> 00:00:36,575 I can't talk to you about specific cases, 12 00:00:36,675 --> 00:00:39,335 but I can tell you there is so much more to come. 13 00:00:39,435 --> 00:00:40,814 Show me what you have. 14 00:00:40,914 --> 00:00:42,494 A printout of an email proving a payment 15 00:00:42,594 --> 00:00:45,734 of £7,000 to Mulcaire for a story on Gordon Taylor. 16 00:00:45,834 --> 00:00:48,013 And the police have access to all of this and more. 17 00:00:48,113 --> 00:00:51,533 In my opinion, what I have seen, is a most careful investigation 18 00:00:51,633 --> 00:00:53,573 by very experienced detectives. 19 00:00:53,673 --> 00:00:56,172 And since no additional evidence has come to light, 20 00:00:56,272 --> 00:00:58,532 I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry. 21 00:00:58,632 --> 00:01:01,052 Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 22 00:01:01,152 --> 00:01:04,771 And now, the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 23 00:01:04,871 --> 00:01:07,551 - Are you reading the statement? - No. 24 00:01:08,890 --> 00:01:10,890 But I do have things to say. 25 00:01:13,970 --> 00:01:15,669 Welcome to your voicemail. 26 00:01:15,775 --> 00:01:18,275 You have three new messages. 27 00:01:18,369 --> 00:01:21,149 To listen to your messages, press one. 28 00:01:22,408 --> 00:01:25,328 Papa here. Just wondering when you're over? 29 00:01:25,888 --> 00:01:29,007 Oh, uh, the kitchen tap seems to be fixed now, 30 00:01:29,727 --> 00:01:32,027 which is good. So, uh... 31 00:01:32,127 --> 00:01:34,427 Message deleted. Next message. 32 00:01:34,527 --> 00:01:35,866 Nick, it's Sheridan. 33 00:01:35,966 --> 00:01:38,546 Um, just to say I got a call from the bank today. 34 00:01:38,646 --> 00:01:40,306 They said it's in relation to the re-mortgage, 35 00:01:40,406 --> 00:01:43,545 but... I felt like someone was fishing. 36 00:01:43,645 --> 00:01:45,465 Message deleted. 37 00:01:45,565 --> 00:01:46,625 Next message. 38 00:01:46,725 --> 00:01:49,844 Nick, we're putting together a legal response for Alan. 39 00:01:50,484 --> 00:01:52,784 But, we need to speak to you about the Select Committee. 40 00:02:01,123 --> 00:02:03,122 Oh, God. 41 00:02:04,082 --> 00:02:06,082 Don't you dare. 42 00:02:08,842 --> 00:02:10,221 Has Alan rung again? 43 00:02:10,321 --> 00:02:11,661 Possibly. 44 00:02:11,761 --> 00:02:13,761 Possibly? 45 00:02:15,441 --> 00:02:17,520 Could be the school telling me my son has broken his leg, 46 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,680 or Rebekah Brooks declaring surrender. 47 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,859 Or it could be Alan asking where I am and whether David Leigh is with me. 48 00:02:24,959 --> 00:02:26,959 I didn't answer. I didn't want to lie to him. 49 00:02:27,559 --> 00:02:29,559 Perhaps he'll leave a voicemail. 50 00:02:30,678 --> 00:02:33,218 Why are we here? Good question. 51 00:02:33,318 --> 00:02:34,618 Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 52 00:02:34,718 --> 00:02:36,537 Now, we have a lot of questions, 53 00:02:36,637 --> 00:02:38,777 so try and keep opening statements short. 54 00:02:38,877 --> 00:02:41,497 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 55 00:02:41,597 --> 00:02:43,296 Um, but I do have... 56 00:02:43,396 --> 00:02:45,396 Well, it's quite a lot for me to say. 57 00:02:45,836 --> 00:02:49,816 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, copies of an email. 58 00:02:49,916 --> 00:02:51,575 With respect, Mr Davies, uh, 59 00:02:51,675 --> 00:02:53,135 we have quite a few questions for you. 60 00:02:53,235 --> 00:02:55,335 I understand that but I think your questions will be given context... 61 00:02:55,435 --> 00:02:57,674 - Let's open with a question from... - Mr Whittingdale. 62 00:03:01,434 --> 00:03:03,434 Do you want the evidence or not? 63 00:03:04,393 --> 00:03:06,393 I would like to read it. 64 00:03:10,193 --> 00:03:12,192 Yup. Okay. 65 00:03:17,431 --> 00:03:19,431 - There you go. - Okay. 66 00:03:22,031 --> 00:03:25,090 This is an email sent for Neville Thurlbeck, 67 00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:27,130 Chief Reporter for News of the World. 68 00:03:27,230 --> 00:03:29,230 A document the police have had for some time. 69 00:03:30,030 --> 00:03:33,789 A document that contains transcripts of hacked voicemails. 70 00:03:35,029 --> 00:03:37,029 I hope you'll agree this backs up our claims. 71 00:03:37,709 --> 00:03:39,728 But what's more unsettling is that Scotland Yard 72 00:03:39,828 --> 00:03:43,408 have never arrested or interviewed Neville Thurlbeck. 73 00:03:43,508 --> 00:03:44,488 My chief concern is... 74 00:03:44,588 --> 00:03:46,287 Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic, 75 00:03:46,387 --> 00:03:48,247 but if we can get back to the matter in hand. 76 00:03:48,347 --> 00:03:49,967 Mr Whittingdale, I'm very worried 77 00:03:50,067 --> 00:03:53,266 that News International journalists have been breaking the law. 78 00:03:54,666 --> 00:03:56,286 And equally worried that Scotland Yard 79 00:03:56,386 --> 00:03:58,425 do not appear to have investigated them. 80 00:04:05,584 --> 00:04:08,744 "Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic." 81 00:04:10,144 --> 00:04:13,543 It's amazing what you can do with kids' glue and some black paper. 82 00:04:14,663 --> 00:04:17,403 You... You got your kids to redact a... 83 00:04:17,503 --> 00:04:19,502 They enjoyed it. They like craft. 84 00:04:20,862 --> 00:04:22,482 Good revolutionaries. 85 00:04:22,582 --> 00:04:24,482 Yeah. 86 00:04:24,582 --> 00:04:27,481 What was that letter Che Guevara wrote to his kids? 87 00:04:30,821 --> 00:04:32,820 Alan. 88 00:04:33,660 --> 00:04:35,660 Hi. 89 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:38,120 No, it's fine. 90 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:40,219 I think we got away with it. 91 00:04:45,499 --> 00:04:47,498 What are they saying? 92 00:04:50,618 --> 00:04:52,558 Yes. 93 00:04:52,658 --> 00:04:55,817 Can you just... Yes. 94 00:04:57,057 --> 00:04:59,417 Right. Thanks for letting me know. 95 00:05:02,856 --> 00:05:04,396 David Leppard, The Sunday Times. 96 00:05:04,496 --> 00:05:07,375 - Why is Leppard phoning you? - It wasn't him. 97 00:05:09,055 --> 00:05:11,915 Leppard's spreading a story that I hired John Ford 98 00:05:12,015 --> 00:05:14,014 to hack voicemail. 99 00:05:14,334 --> 00:05:16,154 It's apparently all over parliament. 100 00:05:16,254 --> 00:05:18,554 John Ford, the blagger? You wouldn't use John Ford... 101 00:05:18,654 --> 00:05:22,353 Er, they're saying it's in relation to our investigation of Monsanto. 102 00:05:22,453 --> 00:05:24,553 I did use an intelligence firm. 103 00:05:24,653 --> 00:05:26,832 Limosis. 104 00:05:26,932 --> 00:05:31,212 It's possible they subcontracted to John Ford. 105 00:05:33,691 --> 00:05:35,931 Well, The Guardian isn't in trouble any more. 106 00:05:37,091 --> 00:05:38,791 I am. 107 00:05:59,968 --> 00:06:01,627 John Ford. 108 00:06:01,727 --> 00:06:03,067 John Ford had had his hand 109 00:06:03,167 --> 00:06:05,787 in and out of Alastair Campbell's trash for years. 110 00:06:05,887 --> 00:06:07,886 But his real talent was for blagging. 111 00:06:08,566 --> 00:06:12,166 An ex-actor with style. He did all sorts to get all sorts. 112 00:06:12,806 --> 00:06:15,165 Gordon Brown's bank records for one. 113 00:06:17,365 --> 00:06:19,885 And Alan may have hired him, which... 114 00:06:20,965 --> 00:06:22,424 Well... 115 00:06:22,524 --> 00:06:25,644 The newspaper industry loves a bit of hypocrisy to expose. 116 00:06:35,362 --> 00:06:37,362 Morning. 117 00:06:37,922 --> 00:06:40,162 Not the face you were hoping to wake up to? 118 00:06:43,761 --> 00:06:47,661 You know, I think the time has come to admit 119 00:06:47,761 --> 00:06:49,920 that John Ford isn't home. 120 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:54,200 David Leigh, investigations editor at The Guardian. 121 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,659 Also, Alan's brother-in-law. 122 00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:58,759 The Sunday Times have got him well hid. 123 00:07:02,278 --> 00:07:04,318 I think we can give him another day. 124 00:07:06,598 --> 00:07:09,397 Perhaps we can get hold of Alan's paper trail? 125 00:07:09,997 --> 00:07:11,577 Get inside the intelligence firm. 126 00:07:11,677 --> 00:07:13,057 Start again. 127 00:07:13,157 --> 00:07:14,777 It'll take too long, they'll publish before... 128 00:07:14,877 --> 00:07:17,736 Then Alan will take a hit and we hope he survives it. 129 00:07:17,836 --> 00:07:19,836 But sitting here, Nick... 130 00:07:21,516 --> 00:07:23,515 It's getting us nowhere. 131 00:07:24,595 --> 00:07:26,375 This is not all my fault. 132 00:07:26,475 --> 00:07:28,475 Murdoch's an eel. 133 00:07:29,355 --> 00:07:30,614 He's entirely relentless. 134 00:07:30,714 --> 00:07:32,714 I'm not picking a fight with Murdoch. 135 00:07:33,194 --> 00:07:34,574 No. 136 00:07:34,674 --> 00:07:37,453 You're picking a fight with our entire industry. 137 00:07:37,553 --> 00:07:39,893 Don't answer it. 138 00:07:39,993 --> 00:07:42,053 No, do. Do. Don't let them leave a voicemail. 139 00:07:42,153 --> 00:07:44,152 - It's an email. - Oh. 140 00:07:44,752 --> 00:07:47,632 Hmm. A statement from the Crown Prosecution Service. 141 00:07:51,511 --> 00:07:53,971 The CPS says, "It's not appropriate 142 00:07:54,071 --> 00:07:56,211 "to re-open a case or revisit the decision." 143 00:07:56,311 --> 00:07:59,910 Ugh! They're not backing us. 144 00:08:01,590 --> 00:08:03,569 Who was it that John Yates said about the case... 145 00:08:03,669 --> 00:08:06,009 Something about, uh, a small number of, uh... 146 00:08:06,109 --> 00:08:07,609 Of hacks, yeah. 147 00:08:07,709 --> 00:08:10,009 Our inquiries showed that they only use the tactic 148 00:08:10,109 --> 00:08:12,308 against a far smaller number of individuals. 149 00:08:13,188 --> 00:08:15,208 Page two. 150 00:08:15,308 --> 00:08:16,608 "Searched Mulcaire's office, 151 00:08:16,708 --> 00:08:20,687 "seized material which indicated some non-royal cases had been hacked." 152 00:08:20,787 --> 00:08:23,107 - Yup. - "The DPP states, 153 00:08:23,986 --> 00:08:26,846 "only a select sample of these could be taken to court 154 00:08:26,946 --> 00:08:32,625 "because any other approach might have made the case unmanageable." 155 00:08:33,665 --> 00:08:35,765 Unmanageable? That suggests a lot of hacking. 156 00:08:35,865 --> 00:08:37,864 - By more than one reporter. - Yeah. 157 00:08:38,544 --> 00:08:40,544 Almost an admission of such. 158 00:08:42,944 --> 00:08:44,563 I'll write, you call. 159 00:08:44,663 --> 00:08:46,403 Got it. 160 00:08:46,503 --> 00:08:48,323 That means you need to leave the car. 161 00:08:48,423 --> 00:08:50,423 Got it. Yeah. 162 00:08:52,622 --> 00:08:55,042 - This is Nick Davies of The Guardian. - Hi there. 163 00:08:55,142 --> 00:08:56,722 I need to speak to somebody at the CPS 164 00:08:56,822 --> 00:08:58,881 about the Glenn Mulcaire prosecution. 165 00:08:58,981 --> 00:09:01,281 Uh, yes. Yes, but specifically, how can I help? 166 00:09:01,381 --> 00:09:02,801 Specifically? 167 00:09:02,901 --> 00:09:04,641 I want to know what the police passed up 168 00:09:04,741 --> 00:09:07,840 and you declined to prosecute because any other approach 169 00:09:07,940 --> 00:09:10,280 would have been "unmanageable". 170 00:09:10,380 --> 00:09:11,799 - Okay. - I have information, 171 00:09:11,899 --> 00:09:14,239 particularly an email that I want to discuss. 172 00:09:14,339 --> 00:09:17,679 Uh, yes, sir. Um, can I put you on hold? 173 00:09:17,779 --> 00:09:19,838 Yes, I will hold. 174 00:09:25,697 --> 00:09:26,837 The plot thickens. 175 00:09:26,937 --> 00:09:28,757 The Neville email was never flagged. 176 00:09:28,857 --> 00:09:30,897 The Met never flagged it to the CPS. 177 00:09:31,417 --> 00:09:32,805 Why not? 178 00:09:34,536 --> 00:09:36,396 I can't give this up. It's too important. 179 00:09:36,496 --> 00:09:38,036 No, I know. 180 00:09:38,136 --> 00:09:40,135 I won't let it hurt Alan. 181 00:09:41,735 --> 00:09:44,435 I'm not entirely sure you can make that promise. 182 00:10:04,892 --> 00:10:07,031 - Hi. - Hi. 183 00:10:07,131 --> 00:10:09,211 - Made you a sandwich. - Oh, cheers. 184 00:10:12,851 --> 00:10:14,205 You look rough. 185 00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:16,365 Yeah, and you look beautiful. 186 00:10:17,370 --> 00:10:19,005 I'm not sleeping. 187 00:10:19,690 --> 00:10:21,285 No, neither am I. 188 00:10:21,649 --> 00:10:23,509 - Daniel Morgan. - Anything I can... 189 00:10:23,609 --> 00:10:25,609 I can't tell you anything. You know that. 190 00:10:26,289 --> 00:10:28,005 - Is there something to tell... - No. 191 00:10:29,048 --> 00:10:30,828 Christ. Salmon and cream cheese, eh? 192 00:10:30,928 --> 00:10:32,668 Scottish salmon. 193 00:10:32,768 --> 00:10:36,547 And I need some non-Daniel Morgan advice. 194 00:10:36,647 --> 00:10:38,827 What, you're saying poncy sandwiches don't come free? 195 00:10:38,927 --> 00:10:40,906 Ah. 196 00:10:41,012 --> 00:10:45,252 Why would the Met not flag evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service? 197 00:10:46,646 --> 00:10:48,385 CPS don't get everything. 198 00:10:48,491 --> 00:10:51,271 And everything it does get has to pass the relevance test, right? 199 00:10:51,365 --> 00:10:53,365 - Correct. - Okay. 200 00:10:55,284 --> 00:10:57,264 So, is this relevant? 201 00:10:57,364 --> 00:10:59,064 They're transcripts for Neville Thurlbeck, 202 00:10:59,164 --> 00:11:01,163 Chief Reporter at the News of the Word. 203 00:11:04,323 --> 00:11:05,663 And they didn't get shown this? 204 00:11:05,763 --> 00:11:07,762 They put it through as "unused material." 205 00:11:08,762 --> 00:11:10,762 Shit. 206 00:11:11,762 --> 00:11:13,762 Tell me. What is happening in the Met? 207 00:11:15,401 --> 00:11:16,821 Well, there's obviously a lot I can't say. 208 00:11:16,921 --> 00:11:18,901 But what I can say, 209 00:11:19,001 --> 00:11:21,001 is that ever since Stephen Lawrence, 210 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,320 the Met's have made it their job to... 211 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:24,900 Well, Dick Fedorcio, 212 00:11:25,026 --> 00:11:26,766 - director of communications. - Yeah, I've met him. 213 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,859 Well, he currently sits on the Met's senior management team. 214 00:11:29,959 --> 00:11:32,459 Our comms chief, not a police officer. 215 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,078 And he has direct impact on operational decisions. 216 00:11:36,078 --> 00:11:38,078 Good press matters that much? 217 00:11:38,958 --> 00:11:42,177 These meetings are dominated by how to get the cases 218 00:11:42,277 --> 00:11:44,137 that are going well in the front of the tabloids 219 00:11:44,237 --> 00:11:46,317 and the cases that are not going so well, off them. 220 00:11:47,477 --> 00:11:49,476 By order of the Commissioner, 221 00:11:49,796 --> 00:11:51,856 Dick will wine and dine the crime journalists. 222 00:11:51,956 --> 00:11:53,956 And guess who he meets the most? 223 00:11:54,756 --> 00:11:56,755 News of the World and The Sun. 224 00:11:57,395 --> 00:11:59,395 But not flagging this to the CPS? 225 00:11:59,955 --> 00:12:01,455 It's bad. Very bad. 226 00:12:01,555 --> 00:12:02,934 Look, will you stop doing that? You're making me jumpy. 227 00:12:03,034 --> 00:12:04,494 I think I'm being watched. 228 00:12:04,594 --> 00:12:07,014 - What, you have anything to hide? - You, for one thing. 229 00:12:07,114 --> 00:12:09,993 Hey, I'm just meeting a pal for a poncy sandwich. 230 00:12:11,233 --> 00:12:14,933 Glenn Mulcaire did a minimum 20,000 hours' work 231 00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:17,212 for the News of the World. 232 00:12:17,312 --> 00:12:19,312 That's on record. It's an industrial level of work. 233 00:12:20,152 --> 00:12:23,251 Which means he worked for far more journalists than Clive Goodman. 234 00:12:23,351 --> 00:12:25,171 So, Neville Thurlbeck appears to be one other, 235 00:12:25,271 --> 00:12:27,551 but was he feeding all of them? 236 00:12:28,831 --> 00:12:30,830 Nick, just be careful, okay? 237 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:34,530 See, these people are not to be fucked with. 238 00:12:44,922 --> 00:12:46,622 There you go. 239 00:12:46,722 --> 00:12:48,022 Charlotte Harris. 240 00:12:48,122 --> 00:12:49,661 Nick Davies. 241 00:12:49,761 --> 00:12:50,741 Right. 242 00:12:50,841 --> 00:12:52,941 You sound delighted to hear from me. 243 00:12:53,041 --> 00:12:55,341 Delighted and not surprised. 244 00:12:55,441 --> 00:12:57,020 How'd you get this number? Did you blag it? 245 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,260 Your office gave it to me. 246 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,300 I can be very polite and surprisingly charming. 247 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,220 If you're calling about the CPS enhancement, 248 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,379 I'm as pissed off as you are, but there's nothing I can do. 249 00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:07,299 Look, the CPS have a file on Glenn Mulcaire. 250 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:08,379 You must know someone who... 251 00:13:08,479 --> 00:13:10,018 Nick, I don't work for you and I've got to go. 252 00:13:10,118 --> 00:13:11,458 Good luck and goodbye. 253 00:13:11,558 --> 00:13:13,558 Uh, right. Okay. 254 00:13:16,878 --> 00:13:20,377 Glenn Mulcaire. Chief phone hacker for the News of the World. 255 00:13:20,477 --> 00:13:22,537 Given six months' jail time for the Clive Goodman case 256 00:13:22,637 --> 00:13:24,956 but now, he's out and about. 257 00:13:25,716 --> 00:13:27,716 And sniffing about. 258 00:13:38,714 --> 00:13:40,714 Mr Mulcaire? Nick Davies. 259 00:13:41,914 --> 00:13:43,294 I saw you. 260 00:13:43,394 --> 00:13:45,393 Maroon Saab by the park. 261 00:13:46,553 --> 00:13:48,813 Think I'd do what I do without being good at it? 262 00:13:48,913 --> 00:13:51,452 I don't know if you've been reading my pieces in The Guardian. 263 00:13:51,552 --> 00:13:53,292 You taping this? 264 00:13:53,392 --> 00:13:56,152 No. I wouldn't do that without your consent, Mr Mulcaire. 265 00:13:56,992 --> 00:13:58,991 It's Glenn. 266 00:13:59,591 --> 00:14:00,971 So, who else are you talking to, Nick? 267 00:14:01,071 --> 00:14:02,531 Got anyone good in the police? 268 00:14:02,631 --> 00:14:04,570 Who's your snout at the screws? 269 00:14:04,670 --> 00:14:06,130 Who are you still talking to at that paper? 270 00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:08,230 You're funny. 271 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:10,370 Why are you here? 272 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:12,669 Did you ever work for Neville Thurlbeck? 273 00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:14,689 Oh, right. 274 00:14:14,789 --> 00:14:15,769 Let me save you some time... 275 00:14:15,869 --> 00:14:17,869 I have an email written to you, 276 00:14:18,428 --> 00:14:20,528 uh, which is marked for Neville 277 00:14:20,628 --> 00:14:23,408 from Ross Hindley and it contains transcripts of 35... 278 00:14:23,508 --> 00:14:25,407 Everything I did came out in court. 279 00:14:25,507 --> 00:14:28,067 - Anything more, I didn't do. - They cut you off, right? 280 00:14:28,987 --> 00:14:31,906 You do know you're still open to future charges? 281 00:14:33,306 --> 00:14:35,286 Get out now before the whole thing collapses on you. 282 00:14:35,386 --> 00:14:37,486 You know I've got five kids in there. 283 00:14:37,586 --> 00:14:39,245 And you come to my house and what, threaten me? 284 00:14:39,345 --> 00:14:40,325 I wasn't threatening you. 285 00:14:40,425 --> 00:14:41,965 Have you any idea what you're dealing with here? 286 00:14:43,785 --> 00:14:47,404 Look, you do yours and I'll do mine, yeah? 287 00:14:47,504 --> 00:14:48,484 I wasn't threatening you. 288 00:14:48,584 --> 00:14:51,064 I was telling you they won't help. 289 00:14:55,423 --> 00:14:57,683 Okay, so, there is a lie happening here. 290 00:14:57,783 --> 00:15:01,442 The CPS memo shows this stretches right inside News International. 291 00:15:01,542 --> 00:15:03,042 Glenn Mulcaire essentially confirmed it. 292 00:15:03,142 --> 00:15:04,282 He didn't confirm it. 293 00:15:04,382 --> 00:15:06,481 I'm digging in. In the meantime, I'd like to publish 294 00:15:06,581 --> 00:15:09,521 "Are Scotland Yard Scared of Rupert Murdoch?" 295 00:15:09,621 --> 00:15:11,281 Saying what? 296 00:15:11,381 --> 00:15:15,920 Saying they buried evidence which should have been passed to the CPS. 297 00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:17,880 - Poking the bear. - That's what we do? Poke the bear. 298 00:15:17,980 --> 00:15:19,320 - No. - Can we just take a minute? 299 00:15:19,420 --> 00:15:21,679 - What's your angle here? - Well, I have two lines of attack. 300 00:15:21,779 --> 00:15:24,799 One, to reveal who was on their shopping list. I need names. 301 00:15:24,899 --> 00:15:28,798 Much more of them. They were far more than three royals, five non-royals. 302 00:15:28,898 --> 00:15:29,897 I want to know who signed off on these names. 303 00:15:29,898 --> 00:15:31,718 I need proof it was more than Clive Goodman. 304 00:15:31,818 --> 00:15:32,758 How will you get that proof? 305 00:15:32,858 --> 00:15:33,997 My second line of attack 306 00:15:34,097 --> 00:15:35,877 - is to get inside the police. - A mistake. 307 00:15:35,977 --> 00:15:39,317 To discover why this evidence wasn't flagged to the CPS. 308 00:15:39,417 --> 00:15:41,836 What criminality was ignored and why? 309 00:15:41,936 --> 00:15:42,876 John Yates called me 310 00:15:42,976 --> 00:15:44,236 and said we've got the wrong end of the stick 311 00:15:44,336 --> 00:15:46,276 - with the police in all of this. - We're on the wrong end of the stick? 312 00:15:46,376 --> 00:15:48,695 Yes. Do you not think that's possible? 313 00:15:49,295 --> 00:15:51,955 Look, are we sure this is sensible? 314 00:15:52,055 --> 00:15:53,954 We're risking our relationship with the police 315 00:15:54,054 --> 00:15:55,954 and with good journalists from other newspapers. 316 00:15:56,054 --> 00:15:57,834 Why? To root out a few bad apples. 317 00:15:57,934 --> 00:15:59,954 - It doesn't seem... - Bad apples, wrong sticks? 318 00:16:00,054 --> 00:16:01,713 I agree with Nick. 319 00:16:01,813 --> 00:16:03,913 The Neville email is extraordinary. 320 00:16:04,013 --> 00:16:06,793 And the fact that they didn't flag it to the CPS, 321 00:16:06,893 --> 00:16:08,512 more extraordinary still. 322 00:16:08,612 --> 00:16:11,472 A chief reporter seems to have been involved in hacking. 323 00:16:11,572 --> 00:16:13,752 That didn't warrant an investigation? 324 00:16:13,852 --> 00:16:15,631 There are potentially thousands of victims, 325 00:16:15,731 --> 00:16:17,471 but the Met is only claiming a small number. 326 00:16:17,571 --> 00:16:19,471 What do you think, Gill? 327 00:16:19,571 --> 00:16:20,990 For a public interest defence, 328 00:16:21,090 --> 00:16:23,090 you need to be absolutely sure of your facts. 329 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:25,110 Right now, this feels a bit small. 330 00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:26,910 Well, I have to say I agree. 331 00:16:27,010 --> 00:16:29,369 Let's pause on the Scotland Yard article. 332 00:16:30,129 --> 00:16:32,709 - Let's let the PCC... - Press Complaints Commission. 333 00:16:32,809 --> 00:16:35,008 The PCC will settle all of this down. 334 00:16:35,768 --> 00:16:38,448 They'll back us and it will all be easier. 335 00:16:39,768 --> 00:16:40,828 What else have we got? 336 00:16:40,928 --> 00:16:43,467 Something other than when's Gordon Brown 337 00:16:43,567 --> 00:16:45,567 going to call this next damn election? 338 00:16:46,207 --> 00:16:48,926 Listen, Alan's nervous, but he's right. 339 00:16:49,486 --> 00:16:53,426 You need more, but the angles you're pursuing, also right. 340 00:16:53,526 --> 00:16:55,905 Who says the PCC are gonna back us? 341 00:16:56,005 --> 00:16:57,145 What, you don't think they will? 342 00:16:57,245 --> 00:16:59,945 Why is Alan waiting for them? You know we have to keep pushing. 343 00:17:00,045 --> 00:17:01,465 It's kill or be killed. We can't wait. 344 00:17:01,565 --> 00:17:04,104 Yes. The Sunday Times are getting ready to publish 345 00:17:04,204 --> 00:17:06,204 on John Ford and Alan. 346 00:17:06,924 --> 00:17:08,663 - Right. - Hmm. 347 00:17:08,763 --> 00:17:10,763 Have Limosis come back with any more? 348 00:17:11,163 --> 00:17:13,503 Nothing that gives us categorical proof. 349 00:17:13,603 --> 00:17:15,342 He's in trouble. 350 00:17:15,442 --> 00:17:17,142 Just give him time. 351 00:17:17,242 --> 00:17:18,822 They're accusing him of being a hypocrite. 352 00:17:18,922 --> 00:17:22,321 We have hypocrisy on hypocrisy. The world's gone mad. 353 00:17:23,081 --> 00:17:25,081 Look, Nick. 354 00:17:25,961 --> 00:17:26,941 Nick. 355 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:34,900 No, Nick. Nick, Nick. 356 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,479 Whatever you're doing, Nick, stop. 357 00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:41,179 Hello? 358 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:43,018 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 359 00:17:43,118 --> 00:17:45,098 Can I have The Sunday Times managing editor's office? 360 00:17:45,198 --> 00:17:47,198 I mean it, Nick. 361 00:17:49,677 --> 00:17:50,657 Hello? 362 00:17:50,757 --> 00:17:52,537 Hi, this is Nick Davies of The Guardian. 363 00:17:52,637 --> 00:17:54,417 - All right. - Yeah. 364 00:17:54,517 --> 00:17:57,656 I'd like confirmation, on the record, of A, 365 00:17:57,756 --> 00:18:00,016 how many times you've made payments to John Ford 366 00:18:00,116 --> 00:18:02,456 to blag into confidential databases. 367 00:18:02,556 --> 00:18:06,335 And B, the period of time over which these payments have been made. 368 00:18:06,435 --> 00:18:07,935 Okay. We'll need to investigate. 369 00:18:08,035 --> 00:18:09,894 Of course. You'll need to do some investigation. 370 00:18:09,994 --> 00:18:13,034 You just call me back whenever you've had the chance to do so, yeah? 371 00:18:14,154 --> 00:18:15,654 Right. 372 00:18:15,754 --> 00:18:17,753 Great, thanks. Bye-bye. 373 00:18:27,272 --> 00:18:29,272 Hi. 374 00:18:29,952 --> 00:18:31,531 Peace offering. 375 00:18:31,631 --> 00:18:33,631 I don't drink. 376 00:18:34,231 --> 00:18:36,751 Can I get you something softer? A Mars bar? 377 00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:40,210 Sure, I'd tell you everything I know for a Mars bar. 378 00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:42,090 I wasn't... I'm not threatening you. 379 00:18:42,190 --> 00:18:44,489 No, no. You're Willy Wonka. Chocolate for everyone. 380 00:18:45,989 --> 00:18:48,429 I want to know your side of the story. 381 00:18:49,389 --> 00:18:50,688 How'd you find me here? 382 00:18:50,788 --> 00:18:51,808 You're on the club's website. 383 00:18:51,908 --> 00:18:55,288 You won the big break competition here two years ago. Congratulations. 384 00:18:55,388 --> 00:18:58,367 In court transcripts, it says that you worked 385 00:18:58,467 --> 00:19:00,127 for News of the World for 70 hours a week. 386 00:19:00,227 --> 00:19:01,247 Here we go. 387 00:19:01,347 --> 00:19:03,667 Over six years, that's over 20,000 hours. 388 00:19:05,266 --> 00:19:06,686 What were you doing for them during that time? 389 00:19:06,786 --> 00:19:08,886 I'm a PI. I did PI work. 390 00:19:08,986 --> 00:19:10,606 For who? 391 00:19:10,706 --> 00:19:12,125 Because it wasn't just Clive Goodman. 392 00:19:12,225 --> 00:19:14,885 Oh, oh, oh. Naming names? That's two Mars bars at least. 393 00:19:14,985 --> 00:19:18,044 I know you aren't to blame for all this. 394 00:19:18,144 --> 00:19:19,964 Your name is in the mud already. 395 00:19:20,064 --> 00:19:21,884 If you explain exactly what you did 396 00:19:21,984 --> 00:19:23,284 and who you were working for... 397 00:19:23,384 --> 00:19:24,883 Even if I wanted to tell you who, 398 00:19:24,983 --> 00:19:27,243 the police have got all my notebooks and my computers 399 00:19:27,343 --> 00:19:28,723 and everything, so. 400 00:19:28,823 --> 00:19:31,363 Notebooks? What's in those? 401 00:19:31,463 --> 00:19:34,202 Fuck you. 402 00:19:34,302 --> 00:19:36,442 It was in the CPS report that your office was searched 403 00:19:36,542 --> 00:19:38,242 and material was seized but I didn't know there were notebooks. 404 00:19:38,342 --> 00:19:40,681 You find me a PI who doesn't write things down. 405 00:19:40,781 --> 00:19:42,001 Yeah, well, what's in them? 406 00:19:42,101 --> 00:19:44,101 Lines of inquiry? 407 00:19:44,581 --> 00:19:45,760 Names of the people you were hacking... 408 00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:47,860 Sorry, doing PI work on? 409 00:19:48,860 --> 00:19:50,480 And the names of who you were doing them for. 410 00:19:52,059 --> 00:19:54,059 Names of the News of the World journalists. 411 00:19:54,539 --> 00:19:56,079 Go away. 412 00:19:56,179 --> 00:19:58,199 And take your cheap beer with you. 413 00:19:58,299 --> 00:19:59,958 I do not think... 414 00:20:00,058 --> 00:20:03,598 Genuinely, really do not think that you should be the fall guy here. 415 00:20:03,698 --> 00:20:06,697 Yeah, well, be careful that you're not a fall guy too. 416 00:20:07,217 --> 00:20:08,517 Eh, champ? 417 00:20:08,617 --> 00:20:10,657 Now, please fuck off. 418 00:20:12,057 --> 00:20:13,916 Let me do the one thing I still enjoy. 419 00:20:14,016 --> 00:20:16,076 All right. 420 00:20:16,176 --> 00:20:18,176 Good luck. 421 00:20:23,575 --> 00:20:24,875 Mulcaire's given me an idea. 422 00:20:24,975 --> 00:20:27,194 Oh, good. All he's given me is a headache. 423 00:20:27,294 --> 00:20:29,474 We need to get inside the court system. 424 00:20:29,574 --> 00:20:31,274 We need to get more information released. 425 00:20:31,374 --> 00:20:32,354 Sorry? 426 00:20:32,454 --> 00:20:34,233 They won't release documents to me. 427 00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:35,953 They will if they're compelled to by a judge. 428 00:20:36,053 --> 00:20:38,053 Hang on. Can you calm down? 429 00:20:39,253 --> 00:20:41,072 - What? - Children. 430 00:20:41,172 --> 00:20:42,792 You are aware it's the weekend? 431 00:20:42,892 --> 00:20:45,672 Oh, right. The police have Mulcaire's notebooks. 432 00:20:45,772 --> 00:20:47,031 If we can get them into the public eye, 433 00:20:47,131 --> 00:20:49,111 we'll see who hired who, 434 00:20:49,211 --> 00:20:50,951 how high this goes, who was being hacked. 435 00:20:51,051 --> 00:20:53,031 I need... We need compelled evidence. 436 00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:56,190 You swapped between "I need" and "We need" 437 00:20:56,290 --> 00:20:57,790 in the same sentence. Do you know that? 438 00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:59,350 I know you've other clients. 439 00:20:59,450 --> 00:21:01,389 I know you're building several cases here. 440 00:21:01,489 --> 00:21:03,489 Help me, it'll help you, too. 441 00:21:05,009 --> 00:21:05,989 We don't work together, Nick. 442 00:21:06,089 --> 00:21:10,148 Well, of course we don't. But we do have the same cause. 443 00:21:10,248 --> 00:21:12,028 I can't get inside the notebooks 444 00:21:12,128 --> 00:21:14,147 because I'm not mentioned in the notebooks. 445 00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:17,000 But you find a client who is in there 446 00:21:17,087 --> 00:21:18,987 who has the bravery to take it to court, 447 00:21:19,087 --> 00:21:23,506 suddenly, you can see how much this opens up. 448 00:21:23,606 --> 00:21:25,766 Yeah. 449 00:21:27,206 --> 00:21:29,205 Let me, um... 450 00:21:29,898 --> 00:21:32,038 There might be somebody you could talk to. 451 00:21:32,125 --> 00:21:34,304 Well, let me know as soon as you can, okay? 452 00:21:34,404 --> 00:21:35,944 Yes, I heard you. I'm on it. 453 00:21:36,044 --> 00:21:38,044 Okay, thanks. Bye. 454 00:21:45,843 --> 00:21:47,742 There is an art to fear. 455 00:21:47,842 --> 00:21:49,662 An art the News of the World and The Sun 456 00:21:49,762 --> 00:21:52,142 and all those nasty buggers mastered a long time ago. 457 00:21:52,242 --> 00:21:53,902 They call it monstering. 458 00:21:54,002 --> 00:21:56,181 Grievous emotional harm. 459 00:21:56,281 --> 00:21:59,281 The kind of injury from which some victims simply never recover. 460 00:22:00,361 --> 00:22:03,340 A monstering is intended to destroy the victim involved 461 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:04,820 and it is intended to make sure 462 00:22:04,933 --> 00:22:07,213 that no one stands up to them ever again. 463 00:22:08,479 --> 00:22:11,099 Take former Labour government minister, Clare Short. 464 00:22:11,199 --> 00:22:14,539 She criticised The Sun's use of topless women to sell the paper. 465 00:22:14,645 --> 00:22:16,864 She found herself denounced to millions as... 466 00:22:16,958 --> 00:22:18,658 Killjoy Clare. 467 00:22:18,758 --> 00:22:20,498 Short of looks. 468 00:22:20,598 --> 00:22:21,977 Short on brains. 469 00:22:22,077 --> 00:22:24,657 The paper offered free car stickers, 470 00:22:24,757 --> 00:22:26,897 sent page three models round to her home. 471 00:22:26,997 --> 00:22:29,096 Ran a beauty contest to ask their readers 472 00:22:29,196 --> 00:22:32,936 whether they would prefer to see her face or the back of a bus. 473 00:22:37,915 --> 00:22:40,215 The News of the World ran two bogus stories 474 00:22:40,315 --> 00:22:42,694 suggesting Clare was involved in pornography. 475 00:22:42,794 --> 00:22:46,174 Tried to buy old photographs of her as a 20 year-old in a nightdress. 476 00:22:46,274 --> 00:22:48,454 And published a smear story which attempted to link her 477 00:22:48,567 --> 00:22:50,746 to a West Indian gangster. 478 00:22:50,833 --> 00:22:52,873 They monstered her. 479 00:22:53,833 --> 00:22:55,833 It was horrible. 480 00:22:57,272 --> 00:23:00,732 In his diary, Alastair Campbell recalls the ferocious monstering 481 00:23:00,832 --> 00:23:02,931 which was given to the then Transport Secretary, 482 00:23:03,031 --> 00:23:05,191 Stephen Byers in 2002. 483 00:23:05,757 --> 00:23:07,757 It continued even after he resigned. 484 00:23:08,231 --> 00:23:09,490 It's like they get a corpse 485 00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:12,130 but then they're disappointed there's nothing left to kill. 486 00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:14,130 So, they try and kill the dead body, too. 487 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:17,549 So, standing up to it... Standing up to that paper takes guts. 488 00:23:19,709 --> 00:23:21,709 And possibly a little insanity. 489 00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:24,148 Max, it's an honour. 490 00:23:24,468 --> 00:23:26,548 An honour? Is that right? 491 00:23:27,948 --> 00:23:29,048 Max Clifford. 492 00:23:29,148 --> 00:23:30,927 King of the kiss and tell. 493 00:23:31,027 --> 00:23:33,007 His job was bargaining with the tabloids 494 00:23:33,107 --> 00:23:35,447 to get the best headlines and the most money 495 00:23:35,547 --> 00:23:36,686 for his string of clients. 496 00:23:36,786 --> 00:23:38,786 Didn't need to be true, just needed to sell. 497 00:23:40,186 --> 00:23:42,466 Do you remember "Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster"? 498 00:23:43,186 --> 00:23:45,285 He wrote that headline. 499 00:23:45,385 --> 00:23:48,265 But maybe it takes a tabloid man to kill the tabloids. 500 00:23:49,460 --> 00:23:51,359 I'm sincerely grateful for you being here. 501 00:23:51,459 --> 00:23:53,639 Charlotte explained your problem. 502 00:23:53,739 --> 00:23:56,259 I have a feeling that our interests might align on this. 503 00:23:56,819 --> 00:23:58,818 They hacked me. That's on record. 504 00:23:59,698 --> 00:24:01,878 And I want to find out who signed off on it. 505 00:24:01,978 --> 00:24:05,577 - Well, that's extremely important. - We hope it will be important. 506 00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:09,530 We've had our first disclosure. We made an application to the courts. 507 00:24:09,617 --> 00:24:12,176 This is everything Mulcaire wrote about Max. 508 00:24:15,741 --> 00:24:16,832 Hmm. 509 00:24:21,193 --> 00:24:22,395 They've redacted everything. 510 00:24:22,495 --> 00:24:24,355 In particular, anything which might identify 511 00:24:24,455 --> 00:24:26,854 the News of the World journalists who might have commissioned the hacking. 512 00:24:27,574 --> 00:24:29,794 I'm going back to court. We'll get more. 513 00:24:29,894 --> 00:24:32,353 Question. When they disclosed Gordon Taylor's paperwork, 514 00:24:32,453 --> 00:24:33,713 did they redact anything? 515 00:24:33,813 --> 00:24:35,753 - No. - Why start now? 516 00:24:35,853 --> 00:24:37,033 Because it implicates them. 517 00:24:37,133 --> 00:24:39,132 So did Gordon Taylor. 518 00:24:40,012 --> 00:24:43,612 They're working out how to make themselves impenetrable. 519 00:24:45,011 --> 00:24:46,911 They're watching us. 520 00:24:47,011 --> 00:24:49,191 You do know what you're taking on? 521 00:24:49,291 --> 00:24:51,151 Do you know who you're talking to? 522 00:24:51,251 --> 00:24:53,250 I believe Rebekah Brooks is your friend. 523 00:24:53,690 --> 00:24:55,550 Didn't you help her when she was accused of assault? 524 00:24:55,650 --> 00:24:57,770 I help her. But not in that case. 525 00:24:58,695 --> 00:25:01,055 I have my loyalties and I have beliefs. 526 00:25:02,169 --> 00:25:03,909 I mean, I know Andy Coulson. 527 00:25:04,009 --> 00:25:06,048 But him, sitting next to the Prime Minister, 528 00:25:07,008 --> 00:25:08,788 that's wrong in every way. 529 00:25:08,888 --> 00:25:09,868 All the same... 530 00:25:09,968 --> 00:25:12,787 I've spent my entire life inside that machine. 531 00:25:12,887 --> 00:25:15,207 I know what their guns smell like. 532 00:25:16,007 --> 00:25:17,547 Do you? 533 00:25:17,647 --> 00:25:19,174 We need you, Max. 534 00:25:20,086 --> 00:25:22,566 Christ. If I'm your best hope, 535 00:25:23,366 --> 00:25:24,814 you're fucked. 536 00:25:29,483 --> 00:25:31,390 You look tired. 537 00:25:31,415 --> 00:25:32,674 Are you sleeping? 538 00:25:33,082 --> 00:25:35,082 Oh, I've definitely slept better. 539 00:25:35,522 --> 00:25:38,362 That, um, mortgage application, did that come back at all? 540 00:25:39,362 --> 00:25:40,861 No, but there was something else. 541 00:25:40,961 --> 00:25:42,821 Um... 542 00:25:42,921 --> 00:25:46,860 So, when I was picking the kids up, uh, someone I didn't recognise 543 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,940 started talking to me about a Maggie someone. 544 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,040 Now, that's an ex of yours, right? 545 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,759 Oh, God. Did they see the kids? 546 00:25:55,439 --> 00:25:57,719 Yeah, I mean, they kept is casual, but... 547 00:25:58,679 --> 00:26:00,658 Shit. 548 00:26:00,758 --> 00:26:03,458 Maggie? God, they're desperately digging. 549 00:26:03,558 --> 00:26:06,338 I didn't like it, Nick. School gate. 550 00:26:07,957 --> 00:26:09,697 Well, look, they approach you again, 551 00:26:09,797 --> 00:26:11,657 you take out your phone, you take a photograph. 552 00:26:11,757 --> 00:26:16,356 Okay. And promise me it's not going to get worse than this. 553 00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:19,456 Well, they'd be really stupid to do anything I could print. 554 00:26:19,556 --> 00:26:21,555 But I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. 555 00:26:24,475 --> 00:26:26,535 Will they find any skeletons? 556 00:26:26,635 --> 00:26:28,454 Well, if they look properly, they'll find a cemetery. 557 00:26:28,554 --> 00:26:30,094 This is a delivery. 558 00:26:30,194 --> 00:26:32,054 - You stay where you are. - No, no. Let me go. 559 00:26:32,154 --> 00:26:34,453 - All right. - Um, we'll... Let's talk later. 560 00:26:34,553 --> 00:26:35,533 Bye, kids. 561 00:26:35,633 --> 00:26:36,613 Bye-bye. Bye. 562 00:26:36,713 --> 00:26:37,893 Alan. 563 00:26:37,993 --> 00:26:40,253 Sheridan. Oh. 564 00:26:40,353 --> 00:26:41,692 How are you? 565 00:26:41,792 --> 00:26:43,572 - I'm good. You all right? - Mmm. 566 00:26:43,672 --> 00:26:46,332 I'm off. I'll leave you to it. 567 00:26:46,432 --> 00:26:48,431 Hello. You coming in? 568 00:26:49,311 --> 00:26:50,291 No. 569 00:26:50,391 --> 00:26:52,171 I've got food on. There's enough. 570 00:26:52,271 --> 00:26:54,011 I have some, uh, good news actually. 571 00:26:54,111 --> 00:26:57,370 Max Clifford, of all people, taking them to court. 572 00:26:57,470 --> 00:26:59,130 John Ford thing's gone away. 573 00:27:01,309 --> 00:27:03,309 Great. 574 00:27:03,629 --> 00:27:05,629 You think I don't know how? 575 00:27:06,509 --> 00:27:08,808 - Let's talk inside. - Nick Davies, 576 00:27:08,908 --> 00:27:11,848 always guaranteed to bring a flame thrower to a knife fight. 577 00:27:11,948 --> 00:27:13,848 It was the best thing to do. 578 00:27:13,948 --> 00:27:16,047 You didn't think to consult me beforehand? 579 00:27:16,147 --> 00:27:17,407 It's gone away, Alan. 580 00:27:17,507 --> 00:27:19,507 Because you, um... 581 00:27:19,907 --> 00:27:22,646 What's the right word to use here? Provoked them. 582 00:27:22,746 --> 00:27:25,206 In Flat Earth news, I found substantial proof that 583 00:27:25,306 --> 00:27:26,566 The Sunday Times were using John Ford... 584 00:27:26,666 --> 00:27:28,905 - That doesn't matter. - Of course it matters. 585 00:27:29,665 --> 00:27:31,405 They were wrong to use John Ford. 586 00:27:31,505 --> 00:27:34,885 I was wrong if I did, inadvertently, use John Ford. 587 00:27:34,985 --> 00:27:36,764 And you were wrong to get involved 588 00:27:36,864 --> 00:27:39,984 in a way that wasn't asked for and wasn't warranted. 589 00:27:41,264 --> 00:27:43,243 I was trying to broker peace with John Witherow 590 00:27:43,343 --> 00:27:45,083 and you could have destabilised that, 591 00:27:45,183 --> 00:27:46,843 and starting a fight with the News of the World 592 00:27:46,943 --> 00:27:48,243 and The Sunday Times. 593 00:27:48,343 --> 00:27:50,362 I knew it would work. Are you denying that it did? 594 00:27:50,462 --> 00:27:52,602 No. But if you knew it would work, 595 00:27:52,702 --> 00:27:55,002 why didn't you make that call at the very beginning? 596 00:27:55,102 --> 00:27:56,641 Why did you try and find him? 597 00:27:56,741 --> 00:27:58,641 Spend a couple of nights in a car with David Leigh? 598 00:27:58,741 --> 00:28:00,481 Jesus Christ, Nick, 599 00:28:00,581 --> 00:28:02,243 you're such a... 600 00:28:02,540 --> 00:28:03,800 Hazard. 601 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,120 I was just following what was... 602 00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:07,760 Alan, come on. Look... 603 00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:09,359 We need to keep pushing. 604 00:28:09,459 --> 00:28:11,759 They will push back. We need to keep pushing. 605 00:28:11,859 --> 00:28:14,199 I get it, you're exhausted. 606 00:28:14,299 --> 00:28:16,038 You think you're taking on everyone by yourself, 607 00:28:16,138 --> 00:28:18,638 but it's not just you in the box on this one, Nick. 608 00:28:18,738 --> 00:28:20,738 It's all of us. 609 00:28:21,338 --> 00:28:23,737 And I can have a hand on your leg the whole time. 610 00:28:45,574 --> 00:28:47,574 What have you done? 611 00:28:50,054 --> 00:28:52,053 You stupid child. 612 00:29:02,172 --> 00:29:03,232 Yeah? 613 00:29:03,332 --> 00:29:05,331 - I guessed you'd be up. - Yup. 614 00:29:05,651 --> 00:29:08,091 The Press Complaints Commission have come back. 615 00:29:08,891 --> 00:29:10,271 Not good news? 616 00:29:10,371 --> 00:29:12,750 "The PCC has seen no new evidence 617 00:29:12,850 --> 00:29:15,430 "to suggest that the practice of the phone messaging tapping 618 00:29:15,530 --> 00:29:19,149 "was undertaken by other beyond Goodman and Mulcaire. 619 00:29:19,249 --> 00:29:21,909 "Or evidence that the News of the World executives 620 00:29:22,009 --> 00:29:24,488 "knew about Goodman or Mulcaire's activities." 621 00:29:25,008 --> 00:29:28,128 You were right, Alan was wrong. They haven't backed us either. 622 00:29:28,768 --> 00:29:29,748 Yeah, okay. 623 00:29:29,848 --> 00:29:30,868 Sorry, Nick. 624 00:29:30,968 --> 00:29:32,347 Mmm. Thanks for calling. 625 00:29:32,447 --> 00:29:34,447 - Bye. - Bye. 626 00:29:42,246 --> 00:29:44,665 Please enter your four digit PIN. 627 00:29:46,805 --> 00:29:48,465 Welcome to your voicemail. 628 00:29:48,565 --> 00:29:51,105 You have four new messages. 629 00:29:51,205 --> 00:29:53,624 To listen to your messages, press one. 630 00:29:53,724 --> 00:29:55,344 Uh, this is Carl. 631 00:29:55,444 --> 00:29:57,464 I'm here to read your meter. You said you'd be here... 632 00:29:57,564 --> 00:29:59,343 Message deleted. 633 00:29:59,443 --> 00:30:00,823 Next message. 634 00:30:00,923 --> 00:30:02,343 Hey, it's Charlotte. 635 00:30:02,443 --> 00:30:03,903 We've entered the amended claim for Max 636 00:30:04,003 --> 00:30:05,502 and we're waiting for the courts... 637 00:30:05,602 --> 00:30:07,102 Message deleted. 638 00:30:07,202 --> 00:30:08,422 Next message. 639 00:30:08,522 --> 00:30:10,942 Nick, hi, it's me. Uh, another one. 640 00:30:11,143 --> 00:30:13,522 Not sure if it's anything, but, um, a girl you used... 641 00:30:13,622 --> 00:30:15,242 Message deleted. 642 00:30:15,342 --> 00:30:16,562 Next message. 643 00:30:49,657 --> 00:30:51,657 Hello, Dad. 644 00:30:52,537 --> 00:30:53,956 You're looking thinner. 645 00:30:54,056 --> 00:30:56,196 You look good. 646 00:30:56,296 --> 00:30:58,296 Still a charmer. 647 00:31:12,374 --> 00:31:13,713 I should be helping with that, Papa. 648 00:31:13,813 --> 00:31:15,893 Should. Would. Could. 649 00:31:16,653 --> 00:31:18,113 No, you can't. 650 00:31:18,213 --> 00:31:21,472 Anyway, these are the good hours. 651 00:31:21,572 --> 00:31:22,832 What's that mean? 652 00:31:22,932 --> 00:31:27,911 Hips hurt, knees hurt, back hurts till 11:00 am. 653 00:31:28,011 --> 00:31:29,751 And then again, from 3:00 pm. 654 00:31:29,851 --> 00:31:32,011 - But 11:00 till 3:00... - Is a holiday. 655 00:31:32,651 --> 00:31:34,650 Never get old. 656 00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:40,030 So, you've got four good hours and you sleep for, presumably eight... 657 00:31:40,130 --> 00:31:42,289 Yes, but don't turn it into a maths puzzle. 658 00:31:42,929 --> 00:31:46,249 I can still do the crossword, however my hips feel. 659 00:31:46,849 --> 00:31:48,848 That's all that counts. 660 00:31:52,088 --> 00:31:54,088 The crossword in The Times. 661 00:31:54,727 --> 00:31:56,267 Should I stop buying The Times? 662 00:31:56,367 --> 00:31:58,367 Yes. 663 00:31:58,927 --> 00:32:00,927 - I won't. - I know. 664 00:32:01,926 --> 00:32:04,706 I've, um, been reading your pieces. 665 00:32:04,806 --> 00:32:06,546 You've managed to watch the Select Committee. 666 00:32:06,646 --> 00:32:08,265 I have no idea how you even did that. 667 00:32:08,365 --> 00:32:09,905 I'm not a dinosaur. 668 00:32:10,005 --> 00:32:12,005 I can use the internet. 669 00:32:14,684 --> 00:32:17,904 So, is it all as hard as it looks? 670 00:32:18,004 --> 00:32:20,004 It's fine. 671 00:32:21,923 --> 00:32:23,823 You've got nothing to prove. 672 00:32:23,923 --> 00:32:25,923 I'm not trying to prove anything. 673 00:32:34,682 --> 00:32:36,741 Your mother would have liked it. 674 00:32:36,841 --> 00:32:38,621 All this trouble. 675 00:32:38,721 --> 00:32:40,721 She always liked trouble. 676 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,019 Just be safe with yourself. 677 00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:51,119 That's all I ask. 678 00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:53,559 Just be safe. 679 00:33:04,997 --> 00:33:06,737 Thank you. 680 00:33:06,837 --> 00:33:08,537 Fifth floor, yeah? 681 00:33:30,393 --> 00:33:32,413 - Mr Davies. - Assistant Commissioner. 682 00:33:32,513 --> 00:33:34,513 - Thank you for coming in. - Thank you. 683 00:33:35,593 --> 00:33:37,372 - Dick said we should meet. - Yes. 684 00:33:37,472 --> 00:33:39,992 Dick Fedorcio was kind enough to arrange the meeting. 685 00:33:41,392 --> 00:33:43,931 I thought it useful so we could smooth matters over, 686 00:33:44,031 --> 00:33:45,451 so we can help each other. 687 00:33:45,551 --> 00:33:46,971 Mmm. I don't think I can help. 688 00:33:47,071 --> 00:33:48,611 No, no, no. I'm here to help you. 689 00:33:48,711 --> 00:33:50,650 A story that makes Scotland Yard look good. 690 00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:54,030 I just need you to confirm that in order to be able to 691 00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:57,409 uh, inform all the potential victims of the hacking 692 00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:59,369 that you set up a new database 693 00:33:59,469 --> 00:34:02,469 containing all the evidence which you gathered in 2006. 694 00:34:03,229 --> 00:34:04,208 Have we? 695 00:34:04,308 --> 00:34:06,488 Uh... 696 00:34:06,588 --> 00:34:08,608 Well, I've very good word from lawyers 697 00:34:08,708 --> 00:34:09,888 who've been in touch with the Yard 698 00:34:09,988 --> 00:34:12,047 saying that you're taking the need to organise 699 00:34:12,147 --> 00:34:15,547 the evidence which perhaps wasn't organised quite so well, seriously. 700 00:34:17,386 --> 00:34:19,086 All right, fine. 701 00:34:19,186 --> 00:34:21,186 Maybe we have organised a database. 702 00:34:21,723 --> 00:34:23,343 I will give you that. 703 00:34:23,443 --> 00:34:24,742 But in return, 704 00:34:24,842 --> 00:34:28,182 maybe you can cease and desist with briefing everyone against me. 705 00:34:28,282 --> 00:34:30,342 We have nothing to do with News International 706 00:34:30,442 --> 00:34:32,341 and you bloody well know it. 707 00:34:32,441 --> 00:34:33,541 Assistant Commissioner, my interest... 708 00:34:33,641 --> 00:34:35,781 You think I don't know what you're doing? 709 00:34:35,881 --> 00:34:37,501 When I appeared in front of that damn Select Committee, 710 00:34:37,601 --> 00:34:40,120 I could see in the eye movements of the MPs 711 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,800 that you'd briefed all but one of them. 712 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,419 I'm sorry, eye movements? 713 00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:48,239 Mmm-hmm. I'm a clever cop, Mr Davies. 714 00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:51,079 Right. 715 00:34:51,478 --> 00:34:56,138 Why didn't you pass the CPS the email to Neville Thurlbeck, 716 00:34:56,238 --> 00:34:58,537 which clearly implicated him in the hacking scandal? 717 00:34:58,637 --> 00:35:00,697 Was it because, well, as the CPS have said, 718 00:35:00,797 --> 00:35:02,417 that you could only use a sample 719 00:35:02,517 --> 00:35:04,057 because the evidence was unmanageable otherwise? 720 00:35:04,157 --> 00:35:06,256 No. The CPS were clear. 721 00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:09,056 With the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 722 00:35:09,156 --> 00:35:11,176 it is only a crime 723 00:35:11,276 --> 00:35:14,295 if the intended victim had not already heard the message. 724 00:35:14,395 --> 00:35:16,855 No one interprets RIPA like that, except you. 725 00:35:16,955 --> 00:35:18,295 All I want to know is the extent of this. 726 00:35:18,395 --> 00:35:19,614 Can you tell me how many victims 727 00:35:19,714 --> 00:35:21,014 of phone hacking you've been able to identify? 728 00:35:21,114 --> 00:35:22,734 Mr Davies, 729 00:35:22,834 --> 00:35:25,613 the Crown Prosecution Service do not agree with you. 730 00:35:25,713 --> 00:35:28,033 The Press Complaints Commission do not agree with you. 731 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:32,153 And the Metropolitan Police certainly do not agree with you. 732 00:35:33,792 --> 00:35:36,792 There's dog-minded and then there's just dog. 733 00:35:37,352 --> 00:35:39,571 This left wing attack on Murdoch by The Guardian... 734 00:35:39,671 --> 00:35:40,811 If you can't give me a bald number, 735 00:35:40,911 --> 00:35:43,331 just tell me how many victims were in Mulcaire's notebooks. 736 00:35:47,110 --> 00:35:49,430 I have never fallen out with a journalist before. 737 00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:55,229 Well, you finally have done so. 738 00:35:55,749 --> 00:35:57,749 Congratulations. 739 00:36:11,008 --> 00:36:13,368 This is Kate Saunders from The Guardian newspaper. 740 00:36:23,204 --> 00:36:24,489 Hi. 741 00:36:25,284 --> 00:36:27,763 Look, I brought you a gift. 742 00:36:30,323 --> 00:36:32,323 It's an "I'm not sorry" gift. 743 00:36:34,402 --> 00:36:36,402 Gonna look? 744 00:36:38,762 --> 00:36:41,881 But I'm also, um... I'm stuck, so... 745 00:36:43,761 --> 00:36:45,661 If calling it an "I'm not sorry" gift is offensive, 746 00:36:45,761 --> 00:36:47,620 call it a "damn" gift. 747 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:49,140 As in, "Damn, I'm stuck. Please help". 748 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:51,020 Why are you stuck? 749 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,680 They are... Everybody is... 750 00:36:56,679 --> 00:36:58,699 No one is telling me the truth and I... 751 00:36:58,799 --> 00:37:00,059 Basic thing about you, Nick, 752 00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:02,218 is that each time you find someone lying to you, 753 00:37:02,318 --> 00:37:03,618 you are utterly amazed, 754 00:37:03,718 --> 00:37:06,658 even though you've devoted most of your life to uncovering liars. 755 00:37:06,758 --> 00:37:10,237 I wear the coat of a cynic only to conceal the heart 756 00:37:11,677 --> 00:37:13,377 of an agitated otter. 757 00:37:13,477 --> 00:37:16,576 They, um... Talking of cynicism, 758 00:37:16,676 --> 00:37:19,756 they're now spreading a rumour that I have a love child. 759 00:37:20,316 --> 00:37:22,315 A love child. 760 00:37:24,395 --> 00:37:26,575 They're coming after me too. 761 00:37:26,675 --> 00:37:28,814 Sheridan's been farming all sorts of calls. 762 00:37:28,914 --> 00:37:30,734 But they're not telling lies about you. 763 00:37:30,834 --> 00:37:32,914 - Why are the only lies about me? - Don't know. 764 00:37:33,594 --> 00:37:35,533 Because they think attacking me 765 00:37:35,633 --> 00:37:37,673 is the easiest way of shutting you up? 766 00:37:38,353 --> 00:37:40,293 Clever, really. 767 00:37:40,393 --> 00:37:42,372 They know I need you. 768 00:37:42,472 --> 00:37:45,512 How curious, you choose now to say something so kind. 769 00:37:47,152 --> 00:37:49,051 Oh, God. 770 00:37:49,151 --> 00:37:50,691 I'm your Sancho Panza. 771 00:37:52,551 --> 00:37:54,551 I always thought I was yours. 772 00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:57,390 I'm sorry for making your life difficult. 773 00:37:58,590 --> 00:38:00,770 I don't... 774 00:38:00,870 --> 00:38:04,169 I don't take our friendship to mean that... 775 00:38:04,269 --> 00:38:07,529 I don't expect you to print everything I write. 776 00:38:07,629 --> 00:38:09,088 You're just doing what you're doing. 777 00:38:09,188 --> 00:38:11,208 Which is why you're the best. 778 00:38:11,308 --> 00:38:13,328 Which is why I pay you. Handsomely. 779 00:38:15,188 --> 00:38:16,487 You're just as optimistic as me. 780 00:38:16,587 --> 00:38:18,807 Christ, you thought the PCC would come back on our side. 781 00:38:18,907 --> 00:38:21,887 - Even I didn't... - How a so-called industry regulator 782 00:38:21,987 --> 00:38:23,406 could say that about us. 783 00:38:23,506 --> 00:38:25,546 Well, it's the death of self-regulation. 784 00:38:27,506 --> 00:38:30,545 - Me? What do I do? - Can't you call your Mr Apollo? 785 00:38:31,145 --> 00:38:32,125 No, he's gone. 786 00:38:32,225 --> 00:38:33,525 Said he would. 787 00:38:33,625 --> 00:38:37,224 He always contacted me. Never from the same line twice. 788 00:38:38,184 --> 00:38:41,204 Well, wait for Max Clifford and your day in court. 789 00:38:41,304 --> 00:38:44,323 Max is important, but we can't wait. We're in a firefight here. 790 00:38:44,423 --> 00:38:47,103 They're gonna keep slinging mud till something sticks. 791 00:38:48,263 --> 00:38:50,442 Then... 792 00:38:50,542 --> 00:38:52,642 Oh, what about the phone companies? 793 00:38:52,742 --> 00:38:54,122 Sorry? 794 00:38:54,222 --> 00:38:57,521 Yates made that claim in the Select Committee 795 00:38:57,621 --> 00:39:00,281 that they'd asked the companies if there were any other victims 796 00:39:00,381 --> 00:39:03,520 of Mulcaire and Goodman in order to take appropriate action. 797 00:39:03,620 --> 00:39:05,480 - Yeah, I remember. - Well, 798 00:39:05,780 --> 00:39:11,039 ask the phone companies to disclose how many victims they identified 799 00:39:11,139 --> 00:39:13,139 and warned of being hacked. 800 00:39:13,659 --> 00:39:15,739 You might get the hacked numbers that way. 801 00:39:17,818 --> 00:39:19,478 You're a genius, Sancho. 802 00:39:19,578 --> 00:39:21,578 Never call me that again. 803 00:39:27,177 --> 00:39:29,177 Go on. Click it. 804 00:39:30,177 --> 00:39:32,176 Just click it. 805 00:39:34,656 --> 00:39:36,676 Got books. 806 00:39:36,776 --> 00:39:38,355 She's not naked. There's pens when you click 807 00:39:38,455 --> 00:39:39,635 and they're naked, but she's covered in books. 808 00:39:39,735 --> 00:39:41,955 - It's a joke. - Thanks for explaining it to me. 809 00:39:42,055 --> 00:39:43,795 - I'll never use it. - I'll never ask you to. 810 00:39:43,895 --> 00:39:45,434 Thank you. 811 00:39:45,534 --> 00:39:47,834 The Commissioner called after you left Yates. 812 00:39:47,934 --> 00:39:51,673 He said to me that, um, your coverage of the hacking scandal 813 00:39:51,773 --> 00:39:53,833 was exaggerated and incorrect. 814 00:39:53,933 --> 00:39:56,753 It's the first time I felt genuine confidence 815 00:39:56,853 --> 00:39:59,312 that we're doing absolutely the right thing. 816 00:40:01,932 --> 00:40:03,992 Adios. 817 00:40:04,092 --> 00:40:06,351 The Select Committee had, of course, rumbled on after us, 818 00:40:06,451 --> 00:40:08,111 meeting press, politicians, the police. 819 00:40:08,211 --> 00:40:10,111 Trying to meet Rebekah Brooks, she said no. 820 00:40:10,211 --> 00:40:12,670 Though they succeeded in meeting Andy Coulson, who said... 821 00:40:12,770 --> 00:40:14,310 As little as possible. 822 00:40:14,410 --> 00:40:16,630 But they were working it as best they could. 823 00:40:16,730 --> 00:40:19,349 And I was working with them, as best I could, 824 00:40:19,449 --> 00:40:20,869 feeding them occasional questions. 825 00:40:20,969 --> 00:40:23,149 Which we asked in our own way. 826 00:40:23,249 --> 00:40:25,868 Hadn't occurred to me that the police revealing, 827 00:40:25,968 --> 00:40:27,308 in a memo, written by Yates, 828 00:40:27,408 --> 00:40:30,648 that the mobile phone companies had been contacted, was a way in. 829 00:40:31,288 --> 00:40:34,647 The police provided the individual phone companies 830 00:40:35,367 --> 00:40:37,367 details of the telephone numbers. 831 00:40:38,287 --> 00:40:42,146 And it was agreed that they would individually research, 832 00:40:42,246 --> 00:40:46,125 assess and address whether or not and to what degree, 833 00:40:47,125 --> 00:40:51,045 their customers had been the subject of contact by the suspects. 834 00:40:57,524 --> 00:41:00,663 What I'm looking to find out is when the police contacted you, 835 00:41:00,763 --> 00:41:02,703 what number of victims you managed to trace 836 00:41:02,803 --> 00:41:04,143 and how many you contacted. 837 00:41:04,243 --> 00:41:06,242 Right, but... Yes. 838 00:41:07,202 --> 00:41:09,822 But John Yates was quoted in the Select Committee 839 00:41:09,922 --> 00:41:11,502 as saying you were spoken to, so. 840 00:41:12,921 --> 00:41:15,541 My question is, did you ignore the Assistant Commissioner 841 00:41:15,641 --> 00:41:17,641 of the Metropolitan Police? 842 00:41:18,281 --> 00:41:20,900 - Yeah, sure. Sure, I'll hold. - Nick. 843 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,860 O2, 40 victims. Now, it's only one. 844 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,019 It's only one. When one goes, they all... 845 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:29,139 Yes, it is. Now, O2 have just confirmed 846 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:30,819 that once they were alerted by the police, 847 00:41:30,919 --> 00:41:33,059 they contacted 40 hacking victims. 848 00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:35,158 I just wondered whether you have a number for us. 849 00:41:35,598 --> 00:41:37,178 Or have you more to hide than them? 850 00:41:37,278 --> 00:41:39,278 Great. 851 00:41:39,838 --> 00:41:41,837 Great. How many? 852 00:41:42,197 --> 00:41:43,817 Broadly the same as O2. 853 00:41:43,917 --> 00:41:46,856 You think you can do any better than, "Broadly the same as O2"? 854 00:41:46,956 --> 00:41:49,176 Orange have come back with 45 victims. 855 00:41:49,276 --> 00:41:50,736 Do you want to match that number instead? 856 00:41:53,036 --> 00:41:54,815 No? Okay. Right, okay. 857 00:41:54,915 --> 00:41:57,735 Well, thank you very much. Thank you, bye. 858 00:42:02,074 --> 00:42:04,214 O2, 40 victims. 859 00:42:04,314 --> 00:42:07,613 Vodafone, 40 victims, Orange, 45 victims. 860 00:42:07,713 --> 00:42:10,493 Together with the original eight, that's more than 130 people 861 00:42:10,593 --> 00:42:12,013 who had their phones hacked. 862 00:42:12,113 --> 00:42:14,012 Far more than Yates said. 863 00:42:14,112 --> 00:42:17,672 And this is just the tip of a very, very big iceberg. 864 00:42:19,272 --> 00:42:21,211 Okay. Let's do it. 865 00:42:27,031 --> 00:42:29,030 This wasn't just Goodman. 866 00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:30,930 This wasn't just the royals. 867 00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:32,570 This was a practice. 868 00:42:32,670 --> 00:42:34,669 This was our foothold. 869 00:42:35,149 --> 00:42:37,149 And yet... 870 00:42:37,709 --> 00:42:40,409 Even though News International should have been on fire, 871 00:42:40,509 --> 00:42:42,448 it, once again, barely hit the sides. 872 00:42:45,108 --> 00:42:48,587 And no other newspaper thought it was an important story either. 873 00:42:59,626 --> 00:43:01,286 Good scoop. 874 00:43:01,386 --> 00:43:03,405 The mobile phone companies, very good. 875 00:43:03,505 --> 00:43:05,545 Makes me happy to hear you say words like scoop. 876 00:43:06,425 --> 00:43:07,525 Why, is that not what you say? 877 00:43:07,625 --> 00:43:09,624 You ever say "You're nicked"? 878 00:43:09,944 --> 00:43:12,184 I think I tried that once or twice when I was a younger man. 879 00:43:13,184 --> 00:43:15,244 It doesn't matter. No one's reporting it. 880 00:43:15,344 --> 00:43:17,583 Doesn't matter what it is, we're just getting frozen out. 881 00:43:18,423 --> 00:43:20,423 - So try harder. - What? 882 00:43:20,863 --> 00:43:22,962 Try harder. Stop pussy footing around. 883 00:43:23,062 --> 00:43:25,442 You think this is pussy footing? I put my paper on the line. 884 00:43:25,542 --> 00:43:26,562 I put myself on the line. 885 00:43:26,662 --> 00:43:28,802 You're not nailing people. You're not asking the right questions. 886 00:43:28,902 --> 00:43:30,901 Oh, you're a journalist now? 887 00:43:32,221 --> 00:43:34,781 Why was your Neville email not passed on? 888 00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:38,080 Print the photo on your front page 889 00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:41,200 of Assistant Commissioner, John Yates and Rebekah Brooks 890 00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,299 sitting together at the Police Bravery awards. 891 00:43:43,699 --> 00:43:44,799 They sat together? 892 00:43:44,899 --> 00:43:46,519 Print what she said in parliament, 893 00:43:46,619 --> 00:43:48,959 "We have paid the police for information" 894 00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:51,158 and say that doesn't even go halfway to the truth. 895 00:43:51,258 --> 00:43:53,398 There's a murky swamp out there, Nick. 896 00:43:53,498 --> 00:43:56,237 Top tier police in the media and that needs reporting. 897 00:43:56,337 --> 00:43:58,557 I'm trying to write about all these things. 898 00:43:58,657 --> 00:44:01,017 Unfortunately, it's speculative and libellous. 899 00:44:02,217 --> 00:44:04,216 You need evidence, so do I. 900 00:44:05,576 --> 00:44:07,576 You want to help, give me something concrete. 901 00:44:10,935 --> 00:44:12,935 All right. I've dug. 902 00:44:13,895 --> 00:44:15,935 The case, the Neville email, the hacking. 903 00:44:16,854 --> 00:44:19,354 That case was given to Specialist Operations. 904 00:44:19,454 --> 00:44:20,434 Terrorist branch? 905 00:44:20,534 --> 00:44:22,574 The boss at the time was a guy called Andy Hayman. 906 00:44:23,294 --> 00:44:24,273 I know that name. 907 00:44:24,373 --> 00:44:28,153 Yeah, well, he disappeared. Retirement in a puff of smoke. 908 00:44:28,253 --> 00:44:29,233 And then re-appeared... 909 00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:31,752 Uh, yeah. Uh, writing articles for The Times. 910 00:44:31,852 --> 00:44:33,852 - That's why I know the name. - Exactly. 911 00:44:34,292 --> 00:44:36,732 The press goes through the police like a stick of rock. 912 00:44:37,291 --> 00:44:38,871 And News International, 913 00:44:38,971 --> 00:44:40,971 they're the worst of the lot. 914 00:44:41,451 --> 00:44:43,451 It's still speculative. 915 00:44:43,851 --> 00:44:45,850 Sorry, my friend. I need more. 916 00:44:48,210 --> 00:44:50,210 Aye. 917 00:45:26,364 --> 00:45:28,404 - Charlotte. Tell me some good news. - Hi. 918 00:45:29,004 --> 00:45:31,004 It's Max. 919 00:45:45,401 --> 00:45:47,301 Max. 920 00:45:47,401 --> 00:45:48,661 Fucking hell, you brought him? 921 00:45:48,761 --> 00:45:50,141 Max, we've got them on the rack. 922 00:45:50,241 --> 00:45:52,220 You settle, the whole thing gets covered up again. 923 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,060 You got them on the rack? With what? 924 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,160 What we need, I can't get. 925 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,219 Stand tall. Be the man who made a difference. 926 00:45:59,319 --> 00:46:01,779 Be the man. Do you listen to yourself? 927 00:46:01,879 --> 00:46:03,059 This isn't... 928 00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:05,898 - Please, listen to my advice here. - You just want your piece of it. 929 00:46:05,998 --> 00:46:09,258 Oh, your backwoods deal? I like to think I'm better than that. 930 00:46:09,358 --> 00:46:12,158 - No one is better than money. - How much? 931 00:46:14,477 --> 00:46:17,277 - Oh, go on! How much? - Fuck off. 932 00:46:21,996 --> 00:46:23,996 Oh, well. We tried. 933 00:46:25,676 --> 00:46:28,755 The Murdochs agreed to pay Clifford more than a million pounds. 934 00:46:29,475 --> 00:46:30,815 Some to cover his legal costs. 935 00:46:30,915 --> 00:46:34,174 Most in the form of guaranteed income for stories he would sell them 936 00:46:34,274 --> 00:46:35,614 over the next three years. 937 00:46:35,714 --> 00:46:36,734 This meant it could be presented 938 00:46:36,834 --> 00:46:39,014 as something other than the payment of damages. 939 00:46:39,114 --> 00:46:40,893 This meant Charlotte didn't get her cut. 940 00:46:40,993 --> 00:46:42,993 This meant it wasn't news. 941 00:46:43,673 --> 00:46:45,673 Nobody was fooled, but it was clever. 942 00:46:46,872 --> 00:46:48,872 Our biggest gun was spiked. 943 00:46:49,952 --> 00:46:53,092 First election debate. 944 00:46:53,192 --> 00:46:55,171 Tonight, history in the making, 945 00:46:55,271 --> 00:46:59,411 as we are joined by the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg, 946 00:46:59,511 --> 00:47:02,210 the Conservative Party leader, David Cameron 947 00:47:02,310 --> 00:47:05,050 and the leader of The Labour Party, Gordon Brown. 948 00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:10,949 The truth is power and secrecy walk hand in hand. 949 00:47:12,669 --> 00:47:16,628 Power enjoys secrecy because it increases its scope. 950 00:47:17,988 --> 00:47:20,947 Power generates secrecy simply because it can. 951 00:47:22,387 --> 00:47:24,287 Downing Street, Scotland Yard, 952 00:47:24,387 --> 00:47:26,987 they're no different to other powerful organisations. 953 00:47:28,026 --> 00:47:29,686 They find secrecy easy, 954 00:47:29,786 --> 00:47:31,866 natural and extremely helpful, 955 00:47:33,026 --> 00:47:35,245 regardless of whether or not it may cheat the public 956 00:47:35,345 --> 00:47:37,905 of information to which they have a profound right. 957 00:47:38,705 --> 00:47:41,464 But, here's the thing about power and secrecy. 958 00:47:43,024 --> 00:47:45,044 If you can expose the secrecy, 959 00:47:45,144 --> 00:47:47,784 you might... You might, might, 960 00:47:49,863 --> 00:47:50,923 break the power. 961 00:47:54,468 --> 00:47:57,505 Sub extracted from file & improved by Se7enOfNin9 for addic7ed.com