1 00:00:16,472 --> 00:00:17,892 Previously on The Hack. 2 00:00:17,943 --> 00:00:20,065 So Nick Davies and The Guardian 3 00:00:20,090 --> 00:00:22,671 are losing the exclusive but winning the war. 4 00:00:22,696 --> 00:00:26,090 Alan Rusbridger and The Guardian have been in touch with us at Panorama. 5 00:00:26,130 --> 00:00:28,333 It's the hacking stuff, but there's also this story 6 00:00:28,358 --> 00:00:30,298 on Jonathan Rees that they've been pushing. 7 00:00:30,398 --> 00:00:33,778 We found invoices on his desk. Rees to Alex Marunchak. 8 00:00:33,878 --> 00:00:36,658 At The News of the World while Andy Coulson was the editor. 9 00:00:36,758 --> 00:00:39,858 There was a name that appeared in the top corner of Glenn's notes. 10 00:00:39,958 --> 00:00:41,899 - Ian Edmondson. - Ian Edmondson? 11 00:00:41,999 --> 00:00:43,939 He reported directly to Coulson. 12 00:00:44,039 --> 00:00:46,699 Someone I want you to meet. David Cook. Gordon Brown. 13 00:00:46,805 --> 00:00:49,145 I'm interested in hearing more about what's happened to you. 14 00:00:49,239 --> 00:00:51,839 I, uh... I think I might be able to help. 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,660 I, uh... 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,860 - I hear you're a fan of walking. - I am. 17 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:12,340 Do you have a favourite spot? 18 00:01:12,446 --> 00:01:14,386 Hill walking in Arran, sir. 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,480 You don't need to call me sir. 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,110 Policeman's habit. 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,550 Well, I like Arran. 22 00:01:21,841 --> 00:01:24,505 Particularly, and, uh, and this might point 23 00:01:24,530 --> 00:01:26,741 to a certain masochistic quality on my part, 24 00:01:26,841 --> 00:01:29,501 - particularly in the winter time. - Well, it's the colours, 25 00:01:29,601 --> 00:01:31,541 Arran in the winter. 26 00:01:31,641 --> 00:01:33,661 Well, we shall have to go. 27 00:01:33,761 --> 00:01:36,021 You can show me the route. 28 00:01:36,140 --> 00:01:39,160 Oh, you're making me quite homesick. 29 00:01:39,241 --> 00:01:40,341 Well, surely you can get up there 30 00:01:40,441 --> 00:01:42,542 - more often now you're not... - Now that I don't have a job? 31 00:01:42,642 --> 00:01:45,262 No, I didn't mean... 32 00:01:45,362 --> 00:01:46,790 I should be able to, shouldn't I? 33 00:01:46,815 --> 00:01:49,175 And yet I keep being dragged back to London. 34 00:01:50,562 --> 00:01:54,913 Glen has told me something about what happened to you. 35 00:01:55,410 --> 00:01:58,342 - Your story. - Okay. 36 00:01:58,367 --> 00:02:03,588 The intrusion, the surveillance, the meeting with Rebekah Brooks. 37 00:02:04,153 --> 00:02:06,063 It sounds a merry mess. 38 00:02:06,446 --> 00:02:09,503 Yeah, well, look, I made mistakes I shouldn't have. 39 00:02:09,603 --> 00:02:12,003 Well, we all do. 40 00:02:13,216 --> 00:02:14,520 We all do. 41 00:02:15,483 --> 00:02:17,663 My father was a minister, 42 00:02:17,763 --> 00:02:20,423 as I think you know, in the Church of Scotland, 43 00:02:20,523 --> 00:02:22,050 he would... 44 00:02:22,444 --> 00:02:25,004 He would hear everyone's stories. 45 00:02:26,604 --> 00:02:28,984 It's a great failing on my part that I don't have the time 46 00:02:29,084 --> 00:02:30,104 nor the patience that he does. 47 00:02:30,204 --> 00:02:32,424 So, I think it's my responsibility 48 00:02:32,524 --> 00:02:36,304 to tell you why your cruel and unusual story matter to me. 49 00:02:36,404 --> 00:02:38,684 It's because... 50 00:02:40,284 --> 00:02:43,185 It's because I think this country has become polluted, 51 00:02:43,285 --> 00:02:44,545 and I think that we could all... 52 00:02:44,645 --> 00:02:47,845 should all try to do something about it, don't you? 53 00:02:50,805 --> 00:02:53,545 You've read the pieces in The Guardian, about the hacking. 54 00:02:53,645 --> 00:02:55,433 Yeah, Nick's a friend of mine. 55 00:02:55,458 --> 00:02:56,625 Did you read the pieces 56 00:02:56,725 --> 00:02:58,425 - in The New York Times, too? - I did. 57 00:02:58,525 --> 00:02:59,865 And you know the work that Glen is doing 58 00:02:59,965 --> 00:03:01,965 - at Panorama? - Yeah. 59 00:03:03,846 --> 00:03:07,266 Rupert Murdoch is trying to take control of BSkyB. 60 00:03:07,366 --> 00:03:09,906 If he does that, it's a valuable organization, 61 00:03:10,006 --> 00:03:12,746 and he will leverage the value of it to accumulate the debt 62 00:03:12,846 --> 00:03:15,226 needed to buy a huge multinational company, 63 00:03:15,326 --> 00:03:18,826 perhaps Disney or Time Warner. 64 00:03:18,926 --> 00:03:23,287 He'll have control of our media landscape and a good hold of America. 65 00:03:25,567 --> 00:03:28,627 - He needs to be stopped. - I agree. 66 00:03:28,727 --> 00:03:32,207 I will tell you my stories and you will tell me yours. 67 00:03:33,207 --> 00:03:34,987 And then perhaps David, 68 00:03:35,087 --> 00:03:36,747 perhaps we can work out how to help each other. 69 00:03:36,847 --> 00:03:38,847 What do you say? 70 00:03:40,007 --> 00:03:42,007 What do you want me to say? 71 00:04:08,449 --> 00:04:09,709 Into the shark's cage. 72 00:04:09,809 --> 00:04:12,989 I don't think they'll be providing us with cages tonight. 73 00:04:13,089 --> 00:04:15,029 - You're late. - Who the hell thought press awards 74 00:04:15,136 --> 00:04:16,116 were a good idea? 75 00:04:16,209 --> 00:04:19,749 A narcissist who realised it's an industry full of narcissists 76 00:04:19,849 --> 00:04:20,949 who pay to be rewarded 77 00:04:21,049 --> 00:04:23,049 - for the narcissism. - I can't be here. 78 00:04:24,170 --> 00:04:27,550 Look over there. News of the World. 79 00:04:27,650 --> 00:04:29,510 You know they actually have members of staff 80 00:04:29,610 --> 00:04:32,390 under arrest and many more being investigated. 81 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:34,470 The brass neck on them is ridiculous. 82 00:04:34,570 --> 00:04:36,750 So the least I can attempt is some neck? 83 00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:39,110 No. I just want you here. 84 00:04:39,210 --> 00:04:41,230 You think we're going to win something. You're mad. 85 00:04:41,330 --> 00:04:43,510 - Everyone here hates us. - I want you here 86 00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:47,591 because I want us to lose with dignity together. 87 00:04:48,210 --> 00:04:49,911 I've missed you. 88 00:04:50,011 --> 00:04:51,951 I feel itchy. I hate this shirt. 89 00:04:52,051 --> 00:04:53,191 Well, it makes you look 90 00:04:53,291 --> 00:04:55,231 - extremely handsome. - Oh, well. 91 00:04:55,331 --> 00:04:58,231 Now I have to go and play nice with some rich board members. 92 00:04:58,331 --> 00:05:01,191 But please remember, these people, 93 00:05:01,291 --> 00:05:03,191 they're more frightened of you than you are of them. 94 00:05:03,291 --> 00:05:05,492 There's a difference between hate and fear. 95 00:05:23,732 --> 00:05:26,193 Ladies and gentlemen, your attention, please. 96 00:05:26,293 --> 00:05:28,713 Before our awards start this evening, 97 00:05:28,813 --> 00:05:32,933 we have a special update from journalist Nick Davies. 98 00:05:34,253 --> 00:05:36,193 On Wednesday, 26th of January, 99 00:05:36,293 --> 00:05:39,793 News International passed Scotland Yard three email messages 100 00:05:39,893 --> 00:05:41,713 which they claimed to have "only just discovered" 101 00:05:41,813 --> 00:05:43,553 in Ian Edmondson's computer. 102 00:05:43,653 --> 00:05:45,834 And Ian Edmondson was sacked. 103 00:05:45,934 --> 00:05:48,194 Once in receipt of these emails, 104 00:05:48,294 --> 00:05:51,394 Scotland Yard announced a new inquiry, 105 00:05:51,494 --> 00:05:54,794 Operation Weeting, under the command of Sue Akers. 106 00:05:54,894 --> 00:05:57,274 I dismissed Weeting as a PR move 107 00:05:57,374 --> 00:05:59,554 by the Met until on the 9th of February 108 00:05:59,654 --> 00:06:01,994 they released a statement. 109 00:06:02,094 --> 00:06:06,715 The new evidence recently provided by News International 110 00:06:06,815 --> 00:06:10,355 is being considered alongside material 111 00:06:10,455 --> 00:06:14,195 already in the Metropolitan Police Service's possession. 112 00:06:14,295 --> 00:06:17,435 It couldn't be. They weren't finally going to investigate 113 00:06:17,535 --> 00:06:19,875 the last four years of their incompetence. 114 00:06:19,975 --> 00:06:21,955 All actions and decisions 115 00:06:22,055 --> 00:06:25,916 by the previous investigation are being reviewed. 116 00:06:26,443 --> 00:06:29,763 Or were they? Were we winning? Finally? 117 00:06:31,016 --> 00:06:32,516 I certainly didn't feel like a winner. 118 00:06:32,616 --> 00:06:33,716 show business, shall we? 119 00:06:33,816 --> 00:06:37,396 And the award for showbiz reporter of the year goes to... 120 00:06:37,496 --> 00:06:40,436 It's Stephen Moyes of The News of the World. 121 00:06:40,536 --> 00:06:42,196 Congratulations, Stephen. 122 00:06:42,296 --> 00:06:45,876 Okay, and the award for news reporter of the year goes to... 123 00:06:45,976 --> 00:06:49,817 It's the fake Sheikh, Mazher Mahmood, from The News of the World. 124 00:06:51,737 --> 00:06:53,357 The Scoop of the Year now. 125 00:06:53,457 --> 00:06:56,597 The Scoop of the year is awarded to The News of the World 126 00:06:56,697 --> 00:07:00,077 for its excellent coverage of the cricket corruption scandal. 127 00:07:00,177 --> 00:07:03,157 And the award goes to The News of the World. 128 00:07:03,257 --> 00:07:05,717 The News of the World! 129 00:07:05,817 --> 00:07:07,838 Okay, the moment we've all been waiting for. 130 00:07:07,938 --> 00:07:10,478 It's the big one, the Newspaper of the Year. 131 00:07:10,578 --> 00:07:12,958 Now, the Newspaper of the Year goes to, 132 00:07:13,058 --> 00:07:14,838 for what the judges say is a paper 133 00:07:14,964 --> 00:07:18,384 completely unafraid to take on the powers that be. 134 00:07:18,458 --> 00:07:21,958 So, the newspaper of the year award goes to... 135 00:07:22,058 --> 00:07:23,518 The Guardian. 136 00:07:42,379 --> 00:07:44,519 - Jackie Hames? - Yes. 137 00:07:44,619 --> 00:07:48,100 Hello, my name is DS Slater, and this is DC Grossman. 138 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:52,200 - Is it David? - David Cook? No. 139 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:56,400 Uh, No. Well, I suppose, um, in a way, yes. 140 00:07:56,500 --> 00:08:00,560 We are here investigating. We're part of a new operation. 141 00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:02,600 Operation Weeting, 142 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:06,480 we're investigating allegations of phone hacking. 143 00:08:06,580 --> 00:08:08,521 Do you work for John Yates? 144 00:08:08,621 --> 00:08:11,561 No, we're part of the Special Crime Directorate, 145 00:08:11,661 --> 00:08:14,941 under the command of Deputy Assistant Commissioner Akers. 146 00:08:19,061 --> 00:08:20,641 Great. Thank you. 147 00:08:20,741 --> 00:08:23,921 You were found in the notebooks of Glenn Mulcaire. 148 00:08:24,021 --> 00:08:26,021 This doesn't surprise me. 149 00:08:27,101 --> 00:08:29,362 We'd like you to take a look at these details. 150 00:08:29,462 --> 00:08:31,722 Is this your police payroll 151 00:08:31,822 --> 00:08:34,042 - and warrant numbers? - Yes. 152 00:08:34,142 --> 00:08:37,442 How did he have these? 153 00:08:37,542 --> 00:08:39,442 That's where I lived in 1977. 154 00:08:39,542 --> 00:08:41,082 And is this where you worked in 2002? 155 00:08:41,182 --> 00:08:43,402 - Yes. Yeah. - And this phone number, this is... 156 00:08:43,502 --> 00:08:45,502 This is correct. Yeah. 157 00:08:47,542 --> 00:08:48,683 There's information here 158 00:08:48,783 --> 00:08:51,363 that could only have come from my police personnel file. 159 00:08:51,463 --> 00:08:54,663 Yeah, we, um, that's what we think. 160 00:08:57,903 --> 00:09:01,283 Someone within the Met sold him my information, 161 00:09:01,383 --> 00:09:04,343 - David's information. - It's um... 162 00:09:07,103 --> 00:09:09,104 It's possible. 163 00:09:11,784 --> 00:09:14,084 - When was this known? - I'm sorry? 164 00:09:14,184 --> 00:09:17,224 When did the Metropolitan Police have this information? 165 00:09:19,304 --> 00:09:22,024 A notebook was taken from Mulcaire in 2006. 166 00:09:27,264 --> 00:09:29,645 - 2006? - Yeah. 167 00:09:29,745 --> 00:09:33,645 And the Met chose neither to inform me nor investigate 168 00:09:33,745 --> 00:09:37,525 this "possible" corruption. 169 00:09:37,625 --> 00:09:41,985 Well, that's what we're trying to do now, ma'am. 170 00:09:49,786 --> 00:09:51,366 - Glen Campbell. - Nick Davies. 171 00:09:51,466 --> 00:09:53,466 - Hi. - Honour and a privilege. 172 00:09:55,746 --> 00:09:58,086 I hear that you're not well liked at Panorama. 173 00:09:58,186 --> 00:10:00,686 I hear you're adored at The Guardian. 174 00:10:00,786 --> 00:10:02,966 So, who do you usually meet here? 175 00:10:03,066 --> 00:10:05,446 This is where you meet criminals or politicians? 176 00:10:05,546 --> 00:10:09,086 I float between cafes and pubs like a butterfly at a festival. 177 00:10:09,186 --> 00:10:10,247 I liked the Panorama 178 00:10:10,347 --> 00:10:12,447 - on Alex Marunchak. - It wasn't one of mine. 179 00:10:12,547 --> 00:10:14,567 You helped. A lot. It was good. 180 00:10:14,667 --> 00:10:17,887 You've got some particularly great hits in on Jonathan Rees. 181 00:10:17,987 --> 00:10:20,007 And I'd liked your piece on him too. 182 00:10:20,107 --> 00:10:22,607 Mr A. Very good. 183 00:10:22,707 --> 00:10:24,747 - Are you writing more? - No. 184 00:10:26,107 --> 00:10:28,127 I'm... didn't Dave say? I'm out. 185 00:10:28,227 --> 00:10:30,688 Coulson's gone. This is as far as I can go. 186 00:10:30,788 --> 00:10:32,768 Don't look like that. 187 00:10:32,868 --> 00:10:34,488 An engineered death, but something. 188 00:10:34,588 --> 00:10:36,448 I wanted people to take it seriously, they didn't. 189 00:10:36,548 --> 00:10:39,808 So, I'm handing everything on. 190 00:10:39,908 --> 00:10:42,648 I'm trying to persuade Alan to give me Belgium. 191 00:10:42,748 --> 00:10:44,768 They gave you Newspaper of the Year. 192 00:10:44,868 --> 00:10:47,848 That was for The Guardian, not me. I lost my category. 193 00:10:47,948 --> 00:10:50,769 - You're getting somewhere, Nick. - I got somewhere. 194 00:10:50,869 --> 00:10:52,769 Look, I know what this must have cost you. 195 00:10:52,869 --> 00:10:54,869 Cost me isn't the half of it. 196 00:10:55,669 --> 00:10:58,489 No one... No one cared. 197 00:10:58,589 --> 00:11:02,049 The whole industry turned away like a complicit snake. 198 00:11:02,149 --> 00:11:05,029 What if I said I came to see you today with an agenda? 199 00:11:06,069 --> 00:11:08,449 I'm friends with Clare Rewcastle Brown, 200 00:11:08,549 --> 00:11:11,370 the journalist and sister in law of Gordon Brown. 201 00:11:11,470 --> 00:11:13,410 He's leaning in. 202 00:11:13,510 --> 00:11:17,890 I took Dave to see him, and he now wants to meet you. 203 00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:20,330 - Gordon Brown? - Gordon's been looking at your work, 204 00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:22,510 and he thinks there's a way to use it to go further. 205 00:11:23,870 --> 00:11:26,910 Come on, Nick. What's meeting him going to cost you? 206 00:11:36,871 --> 00:11:40,171 Well, it's, uh, it's wonderful to have you all here. 207 00:11:40,271 --> 00:11:43,211 Thank you, Clare and Glen for organising it. 208 00:11:43,311 --> 00:11:46,491 You know, I have such respect for the work of everyone in this room. 209 00:11:46,591 --> 00:11:48,571 And I used to be Prime Minister. There. Does that start us off? 210 00:11:48,671 --> 00:11:50,611 Yes. 211 00:11:50,711 --> 00:11:53,572 - Just about. - The Murdoch BSkyB bid 212 00:11:53,672 --> 00:11:56,372 would be a disaster for our country. 213 00:11:56,472 --> 00:11:57,692 This hacking investigation 214 00:11:57,792 --> 00:12:00,372 needs better scrutiny than people have chosen to give it. 215 00:12:00,472 --> 00:12:02,372 If people understood, properly understood the hacking, 216 00:12:02,472 --> 00:12:03,932 what was happening with hacking, 217 00:12:04,032 --> 00:12:06,212 it may mean they rethink the BSkyB bid. 218 00:12:06,312 --> 00:12:08,692 We have a shared objective. 219 00:12:08,792 --> 00:12:11,613 How we achieve that objective is... 220 00:12:11,713 --> 00:12:15,093 well, I increasingly believe, as does Clare 221 00:12:15,193 --> 00:12:17,353 and Tom, would be best achieved together. 222 00:12:18,553 --> 00:12:20,493 And perhaps everyone would like some tea? 223 00:12:20,593 --> 00:12:22,093 And perhaps everyone would like some tea. 224 00:12:22,193 --> 00:12:23,773 Just sit, sit. I'll pour. 225 00:12:23,873 --> 00:12:25,873 No, I'll pour. 226 00:12:26,233 --> 00:12:29,453 Right. Who would like to begin? 227 00:12:29,553 --> 00:12:32,414 Well, maybe I should speak first. 228 00:12:32,514 --> 00:12:35,654 I was recently interrupted in an investigation room 229 00:12:35,754 --> 00:12:38,834 and shown details of my case and Operation Weeting that were... 230 00:12:40,154 --> 00:12:42,094 Well, the level of intrusion was troubling. 231 00:12:42,194 --> 00:12:44,094 It's just possible that Operation Weeting 232 00:12:44,194 --> 00:12:46,134 is the first Met op to be run properly. 233 00:12:46,234 --> 00:12:47,534 Well, the secret is John Yates 234 00:12:47,634 --> 00:12:49,374 - isn't running it. - Good. 235 00:12:49,474 --> 00:12:52,215 Good. So, how do we help them? 236 00:12:52,315 --> 00:12:54,295 Where will they struggle? 237 00:12:54,395 --> 00:12:56,815 Well, we have to get them to include Jonathan Rees. 238 00:12:56,915 --> 00:13:00,375 It makes no sense to tackle Mulcaire and not Rees. 239 00:13:00,475 --> 00:13:01,895 I've got invoices to show 240 00:13:01,995 --> 00:13:03,855 that they were both up to exactly the same activities. 241 00:13:03,955 --> 00:13:07,455 Prepare me a file and I'll send it to Sue Akers. 242 00:13:07,555 --> 00:13:09,495 - Is it that simple? - Well, I have access 243 00:13:09,595 --> 00:13:11,095 to Sue through the Select Committee. 244 00:13:11,195 --> 00:13:15,016 I can't promise results, but it's a start, no? 245 00:13:15,116 --> 00:13:17,216 Well, Sue and I were DS's at the same time, 246 00:13:17,316 --> 00:13:18,736 I've already asked her 247 00:13:18,836 --> 00:13:21,496 to expand the scope of the investigation, but... 248 00:13:21,596 --> 00:13:25,656 It'll mean more coming from a parliamentary perspective. 249 00:13:25,756 --> 00:13:28,776 Good. What else? 250 00:13:28,876 --> 00:13:31,376 You seem to all be constantly looking at me surprised. 251 00:13:31,476 --> 00:13:33,457 Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem 252 00:13:33,557 --> 00:13:35,497 we have is that the police, politicians and press 253 00:13:35,597 --> 00:13:38,297 are all collaborating under Murdoch's aegis. 254 00:13:38,397 --> 00:13:42,137 We are also made up of police, politicians and press 255 00:13:42,237 --> 00:13:44,937 an unofficial opposition, if you like. 256 00:13:45,037 --> 00:13:48,137 So, let's talk. 257 00:13:48,237 --> 00:13:50,237 What do we need to do? 258 00:13:56,318 --> 00:13:58,098 You, uh, 259 00:13:58,198 --> 00:14:01,138 - are you having a nice time? - I'm fine. 260 00:14:01,238 --> 00:14:03,178 You know, you're a remarkable campaigner, Nick. 261 00:14:03,278 --> 00:14:06,138 Did you ever consider full time politics? 262 00:14:06,238 --> 00:14:08,618 Um... 263 00:14:08,718 --> 00:14:11,698 Well, I don't know. I don't know... Why would you say that? 264 00:14:11,798 --> 00:14:14,459 Perhaps a bit too suspicious of other people to be a politician. 265 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,939 Something I struggle with myself sometimes. 266 00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:20,519 And, uh, and I believe it because I've seen it. On this case. 267 00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:24,379 You're not sure whether I mean this, are you? 268 00:14:24,479 --> 00:14:27,259 - Sorry? - You don't trust me. 269 00:14:27,359 --> 00:14:29,939 I think this is the ball that I picked up that I will quickly drop. 270 00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:32,159 You're saying you won't drop the ball? 271 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:40,860 You know, they, um, they came at me in every way, as you might expect. 272 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,660 They blagged my lawyer, 273 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,220 they procured my family's medical information, 274 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,980 and they, um, 275 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,100 this is quite something, they impersonated me 276 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,100 to get into my building society account. 277 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,420 That's a lot. 278 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,981 I tried to hold a judicial inquiry into phone hacking in... 279 00:14:55,081 --> 00:14:58,341 Let's see now, uh, autumn 2009, 280 00:14:58,441 --> 00:15:01,821 - after I read a piece of yours. - That was my first article. 281 00:15:01,921 --> 00:15:05,381 The civil service resisted it, I think is the kind term. 282 00:15:05,481 --> 00:15:07,601 "It did not meet the tests of public concern." 283 00:15:08,881 --> 00:15:12,061 You know, everyone, everyone thinks they're close to Rupert. 284 00:15:12,161 --> 00:15:15,822 He's very adept at that. He talks quietly, you know all this. 285 00:15:15,922 --> 00:15:19,182 He rarely disagrees, he asks questions 286 00:15:19,282 --> 00:15:23,222 and, uh, he makes everyone feel interesting. 287 00:15:23,322 --> 00:15:27,822 It fascinates me how the powerful let him in. 288 00:15:27,922 --> 00:15:31,722 I wasn't as good at it, at that game as Tony. 289 00:15:32,722 --> 00:15:34,662 When he came for me and, uh, and he did. 290 00:15:34,762 --> 00:15:37,303 I was, I was unprepared, 291 00:15:37,403 --> 00:15:39,463 whether it was how I bowed my head at the cenotaph 292 00:15:39,563 --> 00:15:42,103 or how I wrote to the grieving mothers of dead soldiers. 293 00:15:42,203 --> 00:15:44,923 - Yes, I remember. - You know, I rang Rupert 294 00:15:45,963 --> 00:15:50,623 to tell him that his papers were damaging morale in Afghanistan. 295 00:15:50,723 --> 00:15:53,943 As prime minister, I was asking people to fight, 296 00:15:54,043 --> 00:15:56,744 to risk, and he was telling them article after article 297 00:15:56,844 --> 00:15:59,504 that I was casual with their lives, with soldiers' life. 298 00:15:59,604 --> 00:16:02,184 That I didn't care. To undermine that, 299 00:16:02,284 --> 00:16:04,684 to make those young people feel... 300 00:16:07,244 --> 00:16:09,244 undervalued by their government. 301 00:16:11,604 --> 00:16:13,604 It's just not right. 302 00:16:18,325 --> 00:16:19,425 Sometimes you can tell 303 00:16:19,525 --> 00:16:21,885 that you're the son of a preacher. 304 00:16:24,205 --> 00:16:27,925 You know he wants everything, his ambition is limitless. 305 00:16:30,045 --> 00:16:32,885 But he's overstepped here. And badly. 306 00:16:34,445 --> 00:16:38,166 We can and we should do something important to counter him. 307 00:16:39,486 --> 00:16:41,486 But this started with you 308 00:16:42,006 --> 00:16:44,006 and it's going to need to end with you. 309 00:16:45,566 --> 00:16:49,886 All of which is to say, we need you, Nick. 310 00:16:58,887 --> 00:17:01,807 - Dave. Dave. - Yes, sir. 311 00:17:03,127 --> 00:17:06,667 - How's life at SOCA? - We're getting somewhere today. 312 00:17:06,767 --> 00:17:09,787 Did I hear you've been giving orders to GCHQ? That must be fun. 313 00:17:09,887 --> 00:17:12,547 It's a bit more complicated than that. 314 00:17:12,647 --> 00:17:14,667 What can I do for you, John? 315 00:17:14,767 --> 00:17:16,748 Would you mind popping into mine for a minute? 316 00:17:16,848 --> 00:17:18,068 Sure. 317 00:17:18,168 --> 00:17:22,208 Internal Investigations caught an email coming from your computer 318 00:17:23,248 --> 00:17:25,888 - to Mike Sullivan at The Sun. - Which email? 319 00:17:30,408 --> 00:17:31,468 So, why is this a problem? 320 00:17:31,568 --> 00:17:32,868 I said you'd rather be told it by me... 321 00:17:32,968 --> 00:17:34,948 Well, he was useful on Morgan, he's still useful now. 322 00:17:35,048 --> 00:17:36,148 I mean, you've got a good relationship 323 00:17:36,248 --> 00:17:37,189 with him yourself, haven't you? 324 00:17:37,289 --> 00:17:38,429 I also have one or two questions 325 00:17:38,529 --> 00:17:40,269 about the Panorama programme that went out. 326 00:17:40,369 --> 00:17:42,069 - Yeah. - I believe you're friends 327 00:17:42,169 --> 00:17:43,909 with Glen Campbell at Panorama. 328 00:17:44,009 --> 00:17:46,469 - I have been. - Do you think you could ask him 329 00:17:46,569 --> 00:17:49,149 how he got footage of Jonathan Rees at his computer? 330 00:17:49,249 --> 00:17:51,189 Well, he's quite protective of his sources. 331 00:17:51,289 --> 00:17:53,469 Rees is convinced, as am I, 332 00:17:53,569 --> 00:17:55,669 that the footage could only have come from inside the Met. 333 00:17:55,769 --> 00:17:58,750 He's threatening to take action. Again. 334 00:17:58,850 --> 00:18:01,750 Did it? Come from inside the Met? 335 00:18:01,850 --> 00:18:04,510 - Is that a further... - The request to pass information 336 00:18:04,610 --> 00:18:05,870 to Mike Sullivan came from you. 337 00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:08,470 - I mean, he's your mate. - But there are rules, Dave, 338 00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:10,910 - and you know that. - I do. 339 00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:15,390 And how's Operation Weeting treating you, Mr Rules? 340 00:18:15,490 --> 00:18:20,871 Give Panorama, Mike Sullivan, Nick Davies or anyone fucking else, 341 00:18:20,971 --> 00:18:22,991 anything about our cases 342 00:18:23,091 --> 00:18:24,631 and you'll be strung up for all to see. 343 00:18:24,731 --> 00:18:28,331 - Do you hear me? - Yeah, I hear you. 344 00:18:35,131 --> 00:18:37,952 I've got permission to talk about it with you and you alone. 345 00:18:38,052 --> 00:18:40,192 - I am privileged. - That means private meetings, 346 00:18:40,292 --> 00:18:42,392 you and I, outside of editorial. 347 00:18:42,492 --> 00:18:44,792 Of course. When have we not had those? 348 00:18:44,892 --> 00:18:48,832 - Welcome back. - Alan. Our Scottish friend, 349 00:18:48,932 --> 00:18:50,932 you know him better than I do. 350 00:18:53,532 --> 00:18:56,952 - We can trust him, right? - I want to say two things. 351 00:18:57,052 --> 00:19:00,193 One, you're a journalist 352 00:19:00,293 --> 00:19:04,953 and I am scared that getting into bed with certain politicians 353 00:19:05,053 --> 00:19:08,513 - we'll lose our vital independence. - You do it all the time. 354 00:19:08,613 --> 00:19:11,393 I share my bed with all political parties 355 00:19:11,493 --> 00:19:15,773 and I hope I'm pretty fair at sharing the covers. 356 00:19:21,254 --> 00:19:24,234 Nick, we've just removed 357 00:19:24,334 --> 00:19:26,394 a senior member of Conservative staff, 358 00:19:26,494 --> 00:19:27,954 and I don't want that dismissed 359 00:19:28,054 --> 00:19:30,394 as coming from the newspaper arm of the Labour group. 360 00:19:30,494 --> 00:19:32,434 Yeah, understood. But I asked about Gordon. 361 00:19:32,534 --> 00:19:35,194 And that's the second thing. 362 00:19:35,294 --> 00:19:37,474 You don't go into a room with Gordon Brown 363 00:19:37,574 --> 00:19:38,795 and get what you want, 364 00:19:38,895 --> 00:19:40,875 you go into a room and get what he wants. 365 00:19:40,975 --> 00:19:45,715 He's ferociously intelligent, and very used to power. 366 00:19:45,815 --> 00:19:51,935 But if your interests align, as I think they do here, 367 00:19:53,535 --> 00:19:55,535 he can be a remarkable ally. 368 00:19:57,015 --> 00:20:00,796 - One last push, is it? - And then I want Brussels. 369 00:20:00,896 --> 00:20:04,236 And then you want your well-paid chocolate dream. 370 00:20:04,336 --> 00:20:06,356 Of course. Good. 371 00:20:06,456 --> 00:20:08,916 But please Nick, take it slow. 372 00:20:09,016 --> 00:20:11,396 To work. What have you got? 373 00:20:11,496 --> 00:20:13,596 The flood of cases is overwhelming the courts. 374 00:20:13,696 --> 00:20:15,409 So, they've just appointed a Hacking Judge. 375 00:20:15,410 --> 00:20:16,676 He's already causing trouble. 376 00:20:16,776 --> 00:20:18,396 At the Andy Gray trial, he said it's clear 377 00:20:18,496 --> 00:20:20,477 Mulcaire had been regularly hacking him. 378 00:20:20,577 --> 00:20:23,797 So that's an invitation. Any man, woman or creature 379 00:20:23,897 --> 00:20:27,357 who has anything in those books has been given license to sue. 380 00:20:27,457 --> 00:20:29,537 - And you'll write it up? - Yeah. 381 00:20:32,817 --> 00:20:34,810 Why do you think they gave us this? 382 00:20:35,297 --> 00:20:37,437 Huh? For good journalism. 383 00:20:37,537 --> 00:20:40,918 None of them support the story, our story. 384 00:20:41,018 --> 00:20:44,818 Guilt, the world's most powerful motive. 385 00:20:47,898 --> 00:20:50,518 - I love you, darling. - Yeah. I love you too. 386 00:20:50,618 --> 00:20:52,878 - Dinner's in an hour. - Okay. 387 00:20:52,978 --> 00:20:55,058 It's mac and cheese. 388 00:20:56,538 --> 00:20:59,558 She's not been sleeping very well. 389 00:20:59,658 --> 00:21:02,599 I've been making her leave her phone downstairs most nights, 390 00:21:02,699 --> 00:21:05,159 I'm not sure you'll get away with that. 391 00:21:05,259 --> 00:21:07,079 I'll do my best. 392 00:21:07,179 --> 00:21:09,179 Also, um... 393 00:21:11,099 --> 00:21:14,219 I've been contacted by Operation Weeting. 394 00:21:15,499 --> 00:21:19,539 - Oh, have you? - You knew then? 395 00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:25,040 The things they had on me. 396 00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:26,240 I know. I'm sorry. 397 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:28,340 - I should have warned you. - Yeah. 398 00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:34,040 - Yates came after me today. - And? 399 00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:37,200 - Didn't land a punch. - Good. 400 00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:40,480 They're keeping me at arms length, 401 00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:43,361 but they did tell me a few pieces of useful information. 402 00:21:43,461 --> 00:21:47,921 You remember that time Surrey police got a call fishing for my details. 403 00:21:48,021 --> 00:21:50,861 - Mm-hm. - Well, Weeting told me that, um, 404 00:21:51,901 --> 00:21:54,321 it was probably Mulcaire who made that call. 405 00:21:54,421 --> 00:21:56,421 Jesus Christ. 406 00:21:59,141 --> 00:22:02,142 I don't think anyone's understood the depth of criminality here. 407 00:22:03,182 --> 00:22:05,402 Destabilising police investigations, 408 00:22:05,502 --> 00:22:08,242 we're talking about a murder charge being... 409 00:22:08,342 --> 00:22:10,422 Yeah. Look, who I'm telling, right? 410 00:22:11,622 --> 00:22:13,822 - Please don't laugh at me about this. - I'm not. 411 00:22:14,902 --> 00:22:16,902 I'm not. 412 00:22:18,742 --> 00:22:20,162 You know, right at the beginning of this, 413 00:22:20,262 --> 00:22:22,263 I went to see Rebekah Brooks. 414 00:22:23,663 --> 00:22:27,423 And I said, what you're doing is outrageous. 415 00:22:28,783 --> 00:22:31,403 And you know what she said? 416 00:22:31,503 --> 00:22:32,803 She said, "We believed 417 00:22:32,903 --> 00:22:35,323 that you and Jackie were having an affair, 418 00:22:35,423 --> 00:22:40,363 and as you're both public figures, public interest was on our side." 419 00:22:40,463 --> 00:22:42,444 They thought we were having an affair 420 00:22:42,544 --> 00:22:44,544 - when we were already married? - Ridiculous. 421 00:22:46,384 --> 00:22:48,784 - Absurd. - Cruel, I think is a better word. 422 00:22:52,744 --> 00:22:54,744 Yeah. 423 00:22:55,864 --> 00:22:59,564 I have a source in the police who's been quite openly victimised. 424 00:22:59,664 --> 00:23:03,165 Might stop the whining celebrity angle. 425 00:23:03,265 --> 00:23:05,325 What whining celebrity angle? 426 00:23:05,425 --> 00:23:07,365 People dismissing it because they think 427 00:23:07,465 --> 00:23:10,245 it's just celebrities whining. Get him on the record. 428 00:23:10,345 --> 00:23:11,885 It's just, he's been badly damaged 429 00:23:11,985 --> 00:23:14,105 - by all this already. - You're Nick Davies? 430 00:23:15,625 --> 00:23:18,325 Only on weekdays. Have we met? How can I help? 431 00:23:18,425 --> 00:23:19,485 By telling me what the fuck 432 00:23:19,585 --> 00:23:21,585 you think you're doing stealing my story? 433 00:23:23,266 --> 00:23:25,266 Can we use your office? 434 00:23:30,906 --> 00:23:34,726 - Which story have I stolen? - Apparently, you're Mr Hacking. 435 00:23:34,826 --> 00:23:35,966 Every hacking story 436 00:23:36,066 --> 00:23:38,066 - carries your byline. - It doesn't. 437 00:23:38,826 --> 00:23:40,886 Today. In the paper. Published. 438 00:23:40,986 --> 00:23:43,787 - You didn't write one word of it. - No. 439 00:23:45,587 --> 00:23:49,467 - Well, aren't you going to apologise? - No. 440 00:23:52,147 --> 00:23:54,647 You know, The Guardian gives out all this shit 441 00:23:54,747 --> 00:23:56,767 about what kind of world it wants, and yet... 442 00:23:56,867 --> 00:23:59,527 - This is well written. - Fuck off. 443 00:23:59,627 --> 00:24:02,567 I didn't ask for a credit on it. Whoever said I did was wrong. 444 00:24:02,667 --> 00:24:04,528 Right, then, who do we see next? 445 00:24:04,628 --> 00:24:06,608 - Alan? - Bold, don't you think? 446 00:24:06,708 --> 00:24:08,688 Writing a story about the hacking scandal 447 00:24:08,788 --> 00:24:09,888 without consulting someone 448 00:24:09,988 --> 00:24:12,948 who spent the last three years having his life destroyed by it? 449 00:24:15,108 --> 00:24:16,568 Is this what works for you? 450 00:24:16,668 --> 00:24:18,608 When you're attacked you just attack back? 451 00:24:18,708 --> 00:24:19,928 No. Sometimes. 452 00:24:20,028 --> 00:24:21,968 Maybe. You could have something there. 453 00:24:22,068 --> 00:24:25,769 This is about Operation Weeting, it's a totally different thing. 454 00:24:25,869 --> 00:24:28,389 How come I haven't seen you round the offices before? 455 00:24:29,789 --> 00:24:33,449 I work alone. My own hours. They're supportive of it. 456 00:24:33,549 --> 00:24:35,289 And what have you got on Weeting? 457 00:24:35,389 --> 00:24:37,969 A contact of mine in the force has been put on it. 458 00:24:38,069 --> 00:24:39,929 He's feeding me. 459 00:24:40,029 --> 00:24:41,969 - Tell me everything. - No. 460 00:24:45,550 --> 00:24:49,650 He says it's timid. He's eager for more action. 461 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:52,510 - What's he giving you? - Each arrest as it happens. 462 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:55,010 Neville Thurlbeck is going to be 463 00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:56,850 at Kingston Police Station between nine and ten, 464 00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:59,490 so, I'm there conveniently for the arrest. 465 00:24:59,590 --> 00:25:04,131 Can you... might you tell your source, 466 00:25:04,231 --> 00:25:06,931 um, tell him to look into the initial Select Committee hearings, 467 00:25:07,031 --> 00:25:09,731 in particular the letter they got from the News International lawyers. 468 00:25:09,831 --> 00:25:13,191 Because there's disclosures in that the police never got the answer to. 469 00:25:16,831 --> 00:25:19,731 Thanks. I will. 470 00:25:19,831 --> 00:25:23,931 Would it be so bad, us working together? 471 00:25:24,031 --> 00:25:26,152 You need to see this. 472 00:25:27,152 --> 00:25:29,932 Here's Ben Rosier in Wapping with more on this story. 473 00:25:30,032 --> 00:25:31,212 First, the denials 474 00:25:31,312 --> 00:25:33,852 that celebrity voicemail messages were listened to, 475 00:25:33,952 --> 00:25:36,572 then they claim it was down to a single rogue reporter 476 00:25:36,672 --> 00:25:38,812 - and a private investigator sidekick. - What? 477 00:25:38,912 --> 00:25:40,252 Now the admission, 478 00:25:40,352 --> 00:25:42,652 "We failed to uncover what was going on." 479 00:25:42,752 --> 00:25:45,493 "We're going to apologise, and we're going to pay up." 480 00:25:45,593 --> 00:25:48,533 - Fuck. - Absolutely right. 481 00:25:48,633 --> 00:25:52,053 What exactly are The News of the World admitting to? 482 00:25:52,153 --> 00:25:54,853 - It's brilliant. - Is it? 483 00:25:54,953 --> 00:25:57,893 Well, by admitting they're at fault, and agreeing to cooperate, 484 00:25:57,993 --> 00:26:00,733 in fact, what they're doing is they're finding a new device 485 00:26:00,833 --> 00:26:03,813 for concealing the truth. Nick, will it be cheaper? 486 00:26:03,913 --> 00:26:05,094 Uh, standard-rate damages 487 00:26:05,194 --> 00:26:07,334 rather than the million-pound hush money they've had to pay out. 488 00:26:07,434 --> 00:26:10,574 And getting this out in court now is next to impossible. Am I right? 489 00:26:10,674 --> 00:26:14,174 Well, if you are... Uh, for instance, Sienna Miller 490 00:26:14,274 --> 00:26:16,214 and you do take it to trial, 491 00:26:16,314 --> 00:26:18,974 then if she ends up getting less at trial 492 00:26:19,074 --> 00:26:21,214 than they offered her before, then she risks being ordered 493 00:26:21,314 --> 00:26:24,414 to pay both side's costs, which could be astronomical. 494 00:26:24,514 --> 00:26:27,815 And so... Then, yes, it makes getting to trial almost impossible. 495 00:26:27,915 --> 00:26:30,655 - Shit. - My advice is... 496 00:26:30,755 --> 00:26:33,415 They've twisted one way, we must twist another. 497 00:26:33,515 --> 00:26:36,335 I've had a reply from Sue Akers on Rees. 498 00:26:36,435 --> 00:26:38,375 She's shutting you down? 499 00:26:38,475 --> 00:26:40,695 She says her remit is limited 500 00:26:40,795 --> 00:26:43,375 to Mulcaire and the notebooks. She isn't going near Rees. 501 00:26:43,475 --> 00:26:46,656 Should we try to leak something? Put pressure on that way. 502 00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:49,136 I've got Rees specifically targeting Kate Middleton. 503 00:26:49,236 --> 00:26:51,176 I've just heard he targeted John Yates. 504 00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:56,016 Or we could... Do you think... If we twisted an arm or two, 505 00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:58,856 do you think we could get me up the list for PMQs? 506 00:26:58,956 --> 00:27:02,616 - Ah. That's a very good idea. - I'm not following. 507 00:27:02,716 --> 00:27:04,656 What does Sue Akers want? 508 00:27:04,756 --> 00:27:07,297 To be free to take the evidence wherever it leads her, 509 00:27:07,397 --> 00:27:09,697 with a swift prod from the left. 510 00:27:09,797 --> 00:27:12,377 Maybe the Prime Minister will extend her brief. 511 00:27:12,477 --> 00:27:16,057 - You could even name Rees. - Oh. Good. Good. 512 00:27:16,157 --> 00:27:19,557 Hang on. All of this exposes Dave to scrutiny again. 513 00:27:21,437 --> 00:27:24,137 - I'm ready. - Tom, can I help? 514 00:27:24,237 --> 00:27:27,258 - Please do. - Good. Good. 515 00:27:27,358 --> 00:27:29,298 Let's box Cameron in. 516 00:27:29,398 --> 00:27:31,338 As the Prime Minister has previously said, 517 00:27:31,438 --> 00:27:34,898 the hacking inquiry should go where the evidence takes it. 518 00:27:34,998 --> 00:27:38,058 The Metropolitan Police are in possession of paperwork, 519 00:27:38,158 --> 00:27:39,538 which details the dealings 520 00:27:39,638 --> 00:27:42,298 of criminal private investigator Jonathan Rees. 521 00:27:42,398 --> 00:27:45,658 It strongly suggests that on behalf of News International, 522 00:27:45,758 --> 00:27:48,579 he was illegally targeting members of the royal family, 523 00:27:48,679 --> 00:27:52,179 senior politicians and high level terrorist informers. 524 00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:55,659 Yet the head of Operation Weeting has recently written to me 525 00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:57,139 to explain that this evidence 526 00:27:57,239 --> 00:28:00,099 may be outside the inquiry's terms of reference. 527 00:28:00,199 --> 00:28:01,819 Prime Minister, 528 00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:04,959 I believe powerful forces are involved in a cover-up. 529 00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:09,780 Please, please tell me what you intend to do 530 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,880 to make sure that this doesn't happen. 531 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,300 The point I'd make to the honourable gentleman 532 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,980 who I Know takes a close interest in this, is there is a police inquiry. 533 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,300 A police inquiry doesn't need terms of reference. 534 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,020 The police are free to investigate the evidence 535 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,060 and take that wherever it leads them 536 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,761 and then mount a prosecution with the CPS. 537 00:28:31,881 --> 00:28:33,861 - Amelia. Hi. - Sorry, go in. 538 00:28:33,961 --> 00:28:36,181 Sorry. A bit weird to wait for people outside toilets. 539 00:28:36,281 --> 00:28:38,221 - Oh, I've done worse. - Got a minute? 540 00:28:38,321 --> 00:28:41,781 - Sure. - Two inquiries are being set up. 541 00:28:41,881 --> 00:28:43,061 Operation Tuleta, 542 00:28:43,161 --> 00:28:44,861 looking specifically into Jonathan Rees. 543 00:28:44,961 --> 00:28:46,901 - Good. - Operation Elveden... 544 00:28:47,001 --> 00:28:49,222 I can never get over Scotland Yard's need for strange names. 545 00:28:49,322 --> 00:28:51,902 To investigate the alleged payment of bribes to police officers 546 00:28:52,002 --> 00:28:54,502 and other officials from journalists from the News of the World. 547 00:28:54,602 --> 00:28:57,982 - What's made them do this? - You didn't see Tom Watson's speech? 548 00:28:58,082 --> 00:29:00,822 - Oh, I may have done. - Did you write it? 549 00:29:05,682 --> 00:29:10,263 Also, the Select Committee wading you suggested to my officer, 550 00:29:10,363 --> 00:29:12,543 - let's call him... - Jingle. 551 00:29:12,643 --> 00:29:14,883 Fine. It proved fruitful. 552 00:29:16,123 --> 00:29:18,943 Operation Weeting forced some e-mails out of News International. 553 00:29:19,043 --> 00:29:20,303 And the Met discovered on their servers 554 00:29:20,403 --> 00:29:22,143 some systematic deletions. 555 00:29:22,243 --> 00:29:23,943 - Of course. - In particular, 556 00:29:24,043 --> 00:29:27,023 one enormous deletion in January. 557 00:29:27,123 --> 00:29:28,824 While they were handing over 558 00:29:28,924 --> 00:29:32,304 those three e-mails from Ian Edmondson? Bastards! 559 00:29:32,404 --> 00:29:35,224 - Can we print? - I'm... I'm working on it. 560 00:29:35,324 --> 00:29:38,624 Look, Jingle was grateful for the advice. 561 00:29:38,724 --> 00:29:42,104 He said he can't volunteer information on active cases, 562 00:29:42,204 --> 00:29:44,404 but ask him a question, he'll tell no lies. 563 00:29:52,445 --> 00:29:53,705 We've had something interesting come up. 564 00:29:53,805 --> 00:29:54,865 What is Judge Voss doing? 565 00:29:54,965 --> 00:29:57,145 I feel like we've only seen a tiny percent of Mulcaire's note. 566 00:29:57,245 --> 00:29:59,985 Voss is being robust with everyone. It's yielding fruit. 567 00:30:00,085 --> 00:30:02,625 - Sienna Miller is being typically... - The Sky Andrew case feels important. 568 00:30:02,725 --> 00:30:03,945 - Where are we... - Nick, I've got something, 569 00:30:04,045 --> 00:30:06,065 if you're interested, but you will need to listen. 570 00:30:06,165 --> 00:30:08,165 Sorry. Go on. 571 00:30:10,606 --> 00:30:13,546 I've been representing, as you know, Leslie Ash and Lee Chapman. 572 00:30:13,646 --> 00:30:14,666 Yeah, I read about it. 573 00:30:14,766 --> 00:30:16,766 You're doing brilliantly. 574 00:30:17,846 --> 00:30:20,026 You're like my ex, you always get complimentary 575 00:30:20,126 --> 00:30:22,466 when you know you're in the wrong. 576 00:30:22,566 --> 00:30:24,566 Sorry. I am sorry. 577 00:30:26,206 --> 00:30:28,146 I heard you were a mess. 578 00:30:28,246 --> 00:30:31,187 Oh, fine. I can see an island of sanity. 579 00:30:31,287 --> 00:30:34,087 I'm... I'm floating close to it. Go on. 580 00:30:38,847 --> 00:30:40,787 I went to Putney so that the rooting officers 581 00:30:40,887 --> 00:30:43,347 could show me the notes Mulcaire had taken from Leslie Ash 582 00:30:43,447 --> 00:30:45,187 - and Lee Chapman's voicemail. - Yeah. 583 00:30:45,287 --> 00:30:51,748 And some genius combined the two names 584 00:30:51,848 --> 00:30:55,008 and gave me the details of Leslie Chapman. 585 00:30:56,648 --> 00:30:59,568 - Remind me. - Jessica Chapman's father. 586 00:31:00,608 --> 00:31:02,668 Jessica Chapman was one of the murdered schoolgirls, right? 587 00:31:02,768 --> 00:31:04,668 The Soham murders? 588 00:31:04,768 --> 00:31:07,708 It looks like Leslie Chapman's voicemail was hacked. 589 00:31:07,808 --> 00:31:09,949 They hacked the voicemail of a grieving father? 590 00:31:10,049 --> 00:31:14,969 I'm not sure, but it looks that way. You can't use it. Yet. 591 00:31:16,889 --> 00:31:19,949 - This could change everything. - I need to talk to the family. 592 00:31:20,049 --> 00:31:24,069 I need permissions. I need to be sure. 593 00:31:24,169 --> 00:31:25,549 The Chapman family, I could talk to them. 594 00:31:25,649 --> 00:31:27,649 That's not why I'm telling you this. 595 00:31:28,729 --> 00:31:32,470 Nick, think. If they're doing this to the Chapmans... 596 00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:35,490 - Where else have they been? - Exactly. 597 00:31:41,650 --> 00:31:43,590 Jessica Chapman. 598 00:31:43,690 --> 00:31:47,150 The Soham murders tore the police apart for a while. 599 00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:49,750 She's sure they were in the parents' phone? 600 00:31:49,850 --> 00:31:52,791 It's in Mulcaire's notebooks. But I can't get in there. 601 00:31:52,891 --> 00:31:55,511 - I've got to find another way in. - You will. 602 00:31:55,611 --> 00:31:59,771 - I envy your confidence. - No, just, um... 603 00:32:02,971 --> 00:32:04,971 I'm just happy to have you back. 604 00:32:08,171 --> 00:32:10,992 - I thought that was better. - Sometimes. 605 00:32:11,092 --> 00:32:13,092 It comes and goes. 606 00:32:14,932 --> 00:32:16,872 Are you just frying that cheese? 607 00:32:16,972 --> 00:32:18,072 It's halloumi cheese. 608 00:32:18,172 --> 00:32:20,232 - You'll like it. - I'm not hungry anymore. 609 00:32:20,332 --> 00:32:21,672 - What? - No, it's just that I don't get it. 610 00:32:21,772 --> 00:32:22,952 I mean... 611 00:32:23,052 --> 00:32:25,092 I eat when I know that I have to eat. 612 00:32:26,412 --> 00:32:28,632 I just don't get hungry anymore. 613 00:32:28,732 --> 00:32:30,672 - Don't. - What? 614 00:32:30,772 --> 00:32:32,753 - With that sympathy look. - I'm not being sympathetic. 615 00:32:32,853 --> 00:32:35,233 Don't try and pretend you're in any better state than me. 616 00:32:35,333 --> 00:32:37,833 I've seen you, mate. You are this close to total collapse. 617 00:32:37,933 --> 00:32:39,233 - I'm telling you. - You know the story 618 00:32:39,333 --> 00:32:40,393 of the dung beetle? 619 00:32:40,493 --> 00:32:42,593 Oh, God. Have I stooped that low? 620 00:32:42,693 --> 00:32:44,873 - What? - It's what you trot out. 621 00:32:44,973 --> 00:32:48,033 You trot out that story quite a lot, you know. Ask your kids. 622 00:32:48,133 --> 00:32:50,833 Christ, pity your kids. Whatever's going on... 623 00:32:50,933 --> 00:32:53,634 - Have you heard of the dung beetle? - An aggressive response. 624 00:32:53,734 --> 00:32:56,114 Come on. 625 00:32:56,214 --> 00:32:59,214 - That'll make you hungry. - Thank you. 626 00:33:02,614 --> 00:33:04,614 - You want to know how I do it? - Hmm. 627 00:33:05,614 --> 00:33:09,174 I focus on the details. Always the next detail. 628 00:33:10,814 --> 00:33:13,615 I've been phobic of blood ever since a body exploded on me. 629 00:33:14,775 --> 00:33:16,555 - Body exploded on you? - Yeah, well, 630 00:33:16,655 --> 00:33:18,315 an older man full of hernias. 631 00:33:18,415 --> 00:33:23,595 Normally, when a pathologist scalpel enters a cadaver, you hear a hiss. 632 00:33:23,695 --> 00:33:26,515 Well, this time he exploded. 633 00:33:26,615 --> 00:33:28,955 Blood was everywhere, I was covered in it. 634 00:33:29,055 --> 00:33:30,635 I was in homicide. So going to pathology 635 00:33:30,735 --> 00:33:33,076 is a key part of my job, right? 636 00:33:33,176 --> 00:33:35,176 So I focused on the details. 637 00:33:36,176 --> 00:33:38,176 Ears, toes. 638 00:33:39,776 --> 00:33:41,776 Even how the wound looked. 639 00:33:42,856 --> 00:33:44,856 The blood, I made disappear. 640 00:33:49,576 --> 00:33:51,576 So how do you do it, Nick? 641 00:34:41,659 --> 00:34:43,659 Tell me I'm mad. 642 00:34:44,899 --> 00:34:46,839 - With pleasure. - I was in the database. 643 00:34:46,939 --> 00:34:49,639 News of the World, April 14th, 2002. 644 00:34:49,739 --> 00:34:51,719 Two hundred fifty words long, page nine. 645 00:34:51,819 --> 00:34:53,439 It claims that voicemail messages 646 00:34:53,539 --> 00:34:56,500 were sent to Milly's phone after she disappeared. 647 00:34:57,860 --> 00:34:59,800 Milly Dowler. 648 00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:01,480 "Police say voicemails were left 649 00:35:01,580 --> 00:35:05,120 by a mentally disturbed woman who was hoaxed previous inquiries." 650 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:07,840 It even quotes what the voicemail said. 651 00:35:07,940 --> 00:35:11,040 "Uh, hello. We're ringing because we have some interviews starting. 652 00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:13,140 Can you call me back? Thank you. Bye-bye." 653 00:35:16,221 --> 00:35:18,741 This is six days after Milly had disappeared. 654 00:35:22,501 --> 00:35:24,541 Final edition of the paper. 655 00:35:26,181 --> 00:35:28,181 That reference was removed. 656 00:35:32,901 --> 00:35:35,442 Because they might have realised what a boo-boo they had made. 657 00:35:35,542 --> 00:35:36,602 Charlotte has evidence 658 00:35:36,702 --> 00:35:40,082 that they hacked Jessica Chapman's father on the Soham case. 659 00:35:40,182 --> 00:35:42,682 We can't get close to that, that was the family... 660 00:35:42,782 --> 00:35:46,342 - But this is the girl herself. - Rebekah was editor then. 661 00:35:47,742 --> 00:35:49,742 This was under her aegis. 662 00:35:51,982 --> 00:35:54,222 - Can you confirm this? - I think so. 663 00:35:59,183 --> 00:36:01,503 Is this as big as I think it is? 664 00:36:03,023 --> 00:36:05,023 Yes, it is. 665 00:36:07,223 --> 00:36:09,543 Make sure it stands up. 666 00:36:15,384 --> 00:36:17,084 Yeah, hi. Any fruit? 667 00:36:17,184 --> 00:36:18,724 Jingle says they've been investigating. 668 00:36:18,824 --> 00:36:21,044 Is that confirmation? Are they confirming that it happened? 669 00:36:21,144 --> 00:36:24,064 Yes. There is a page on Dowler in Mulcaire's notebooks. 670 00:36:25,224 --> 00:36:27,844 Right. We need to be absolutely watertight. 671 00:36:27,944 --> 00:36:30,764 Nick, he also says they're pursuing a line of inquiry, 672 00:36:30,864 --> 00:36:34,044 they deleted messages because the voice mailbox was full. 673 00:36:34,144 --> 00:36:35,845 They deleted messages? 674 00:36:35,945 --> 00:36:38,085 I'll get us a firm anonymous quote from Jingle. 675 00:36:38,185 --> 00:36:40,225 - Okay, thanks Amelia. Bye-bye. - Bye. 676 00:36:42,305 --> 00:36:45,285 I have a source from inside Weeting, I've got the article. Glen. 677 00:36:45,385 --> 00:36:46,685 I've got a good source saying 678 00:36:46,785 --> 00:36:49,265 that Surrey police knew about it and the Dowler family did not. 679 00:36:50,425 --> 00:36:53,205 Well, this is it. This is it. 680 00:36:53,305 --> 00:36:56,646 I don't want to believe, but I do. 681 00:36:56,746 --> 00:36:59,246 The source is clear. Stuart Kuttner... 682 00:36:59,346 --> 00:37:01,886 - Remember him? - ... even called Surrey police. 683 00:37:01,986 --> 00:37:04,126 He didn't just hear the voicemail, he followed up on it. 684 00:37:04,226 --> 00:37:06,726 They even think they deleted her answerphone messages 685 00:37:06,826 --> 00:37:09,446 to allow space for messages to be given. 686 00:37:09,546 --> 00:37:10,646 Which made the family think 687 00:37:10,746 --> 00:37:12,566 - she was still alive. - Oh, God. 688 00:37:12,666 --> 00:37:16,587 Do you know if we can land this, this changes everything. 689 00:37:17,587 --> 00:37:22,287 - How? - A child? A dead child's phone? 690 00:37:22,387 --> 00:37:24,767 It's despicable. You know, part of the British public 691 00:37:24,867 --> 00:37:26,487 think that celebrities, politicians, 692 00:37:26,587 --> 00:37:28,447 journalists even deserve everything they get. 693 00:37:28,547 --> 00:37:33,627 But when an innocent is harmed, an innocent already wronged. 694 00:37:34,627 --> 00:37:38,928 Trust me, the News of the World won't be forgiven for this. 695 00:37:44,068 --> 00:37:46,068 Hi, this is Dave. Leave a message. 696 00:37:47,468 --> 00:37:51,488 David, I've been offered to go on to Channel 4. 697 00:37:51,588 --> 00:37:53,888 I don't have a career to protect, and I think I should do it. 698 00:37:53,988 --> 00:37:55,928 If you have a problem with any of this, 699 00:37:56,028 --> 00:37:58,749 could you just call me or text me, please? Thank you. 700 00:38:29,630 --> 00:38:31,890 Mrs Dowler? 701 00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:33,490 - My name is Nick Davies. - I know. 702 00:38:33,590 --> 00:38:35,250 They said you'd be coming by. 703 00:38:35,350 --> 00:38:37,391 I've just been watching you on YouTube. 704 00:38:38,471 --> 00:38:40,471 - Come on. Come in. - Thank you. 705 00:38:47,551 --> 00:38:49,551 Thank you. 706 00:38:51,391 --> 00:38:54,351 - So the police are keeping you... - Up to date with it all, yes. 707 00:38:56,111 --> 00:38:57,291 Operation Weeting, 708 00:38:57,391 --> 00:38:59,592 - good team, it seems. - They say it was true. 709 00:39:00,992 --> 00:39:02,992 Our daughter was hacked. 710 00:39:04,112 --> 00:39:07,832 - Yes. - Can you tell us why? 711 00:39:09,992 --> 00:39:11,932 Why? Sorry? 712 00:39:12,032 --> 00:39:15,392 What we don't understand is why someone would do this. 713 00:39:16,712 --> 00:39:18,913 You're a journalist. Can you explain? 714 00:39:25,433 --> 00:39:27,593 I think they thought there was a good story in it. 715 00:39:29,113 --> 00:39:31,293 A good story? 716 00:39:31,393 --> 00:39:34,333 They wanted to... either to find her, 717 00:39:34,433 --> 00:39:37,333 or to find something printable about her. 718 00:39:37,433 --> 00:39:40,214 So, the phone promised all those things. 719 00:39:40,314 --> 00:39:43,394 But we'd only just lost her, didn't they know it was wrong? 720 00:39:45,954 --> 00:39:48,014 I think they didn't consider that. 721 00:39:48,114 --> 00:39:50,434 Didn't they know it would hurt us? 722 00:39:55,154 --> 00:39:57,154 Milly... 723 00:39:58,995 --> 00:40:01,755 At that time, Milly was the most famous person in the UK, 724 00:40:02,755 --> 00:40:04,795 and everyone wanted to read about her. 725 00:40:07,435 --> 00:40:09,835 And I'm afraid they needed to sell their newspaper. 726 00:40:11,275 --> 00:40:13,815 And now you're here. 727 00:40:13,915 --> 00:40:16,715 - As someone else selling a newspaper. - I am. 728 00:40:20,396 --> 00:40:25,076 Yes, but I'm hoping what we are doing... 729 00:40:27,996 --> 00:40:32,016 will help expose a wrong that was done to your daughter. 730 00:40:32,116 --> 00:40:34,756 However, yes, I, uh, we are selling newspapers, 731 00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:38,976 and I know that all this will be bringing her 732 00:40:39,076 --> 00:40:41,017 back into the spotlight again, 733 00:40:41,117 --> 00:40:43,117 - and I know... - That's painful? 734 00:40:45,077 --> 00:40:47,957 - Just slightly. - Yeah. 735 00:40:50,757 --> 00:40:52,757 But you should do it all the same. 736 00:40:54,317 --> 00:40:57,557 You have our permission Nick, if you needed it, that is. 737 00:41:01,078 --> 00:41:03,078 Thank you. 738 00:41:04,318 --> 00:41:05,778 Always can never get used to microphones 739 00:41:05,878 --> 00:41:06,898 being poked everywhere. 740 00:41:06,998 --> 00:41:10,058 I'm used to it. Crimewatch. 741 00:41:10,158 --> 00:41:12,498 Of course. Of course you are. 742 00:41:12,598 --> 00:41:14,598 - More used to it than me. - No. 743 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:21,899 Do you want to share 744 00:41:21,999 --> 00:41:24,119 - the byline with Amelia? - Her source helped confirm it. 745 00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:27,439 Needs something clearer. 746 00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:31,299 - News of the World targeted... - Illegally targeted. 747 00:41:31,399 --> 00:41:35,179 Good. Illegally targeted the missing schoolgirl Milly Dowler 748 00:41:35,279 --> 00:41:38,459 - and her family in dates... - Yup. 749 00:41:38,559 --> 00:41:41,580 interfering with the police investigation into... 750 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,220 No, interfering with police inquiries 751 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,420 into her disappearance and deleted messages. 752 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,800 Then what the family believed, 753 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,060 she's alive, the lie of that. 754 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,060 Do we have a source and a secondary source? 755 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,300 Yes, we do. 756 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,041 - Have we spoken to Scotland Yard? - Of course. I even asked for a quote. 757 00:42:05,601 --> 00:42:09,241 This is quite something. 758 00:42:11,241 --> 00:42:15,461 Channel 4 News can tonight reveal that allegations have been aired 759 00:42:15,561 --> 00:42:17,581 that a Metropolitan Police detective 760 00:42:17,681 --> 00:42:20,862 was put under surveillance by the News of the World journalist 761 00:42:20,962 --> 00:42:22,982 and his personal details were targeted. 762 00:42:23,082 --> 00:42:26,862 The former Crimewatch presenter and Detective Jacqui Haimes 763 00:42:26,962 --> 00:42:28,962 has spoken out for the first time. 764 00:42:30,002 --> 00:42:33,182 So, Jacqui, you were approached by Operation Weeting. 765 00:42:33,282 --> 00:42:35,322 What did they show you? 766 00:42:37,202 --> 00:42:39,822 They showed me various sheets of paper, 767 00:42:39,922 --> 00:42:45,663 which I was told came from Glenn Mulcaire's diaries and notes 768 00:42:45,763 --> 00:42:48,943 and sat there and read 769 00:42:49,043 --> 00:42:51,963 the extent to which he had delved into my private life 770 00:42:53,003 --> 00:42:55,623 and it was quite a body blow. 771 00:42:55,723 --> 00:42:58,663 I want to know who instigated the surveillance 772 00:42:58,763 --> 00:43:01,504 and the research that was done on us. 773 00:43:01,604 --> 00:43:04,304 I would like to know how they got and who they got 774 00:43:04,404 --> 00:43:06,924 that personal information from about us. 775 00:43:08,564 --> 00:43:13,024 I would like to know what the purpose of it was from them. 776 00:43:13,124 --> 00:43:16,304 Do you think there was an attempt, here, to interfere 777 00:43:16,404 --> 00:43:19,204 with your ex-husband's criminal investigation, 778 00:43:20,324 --> 00:43:22,645 and if so, what, where's the evidence for that? 779 00:43:24,205 --> 00:43:26,725 It's very difficult when you look at the um, 780 00:43:27,725 --> 00:43:31,005 the order in which things happened, the chronology of this, 781 00:43:32,445 --> 00:43:35,785 not to at least want to shine a light on it, and say, you know, 782 00:43:35,885 --> 00:43:39,065 how is it that the day after that appeal went out on Crimewatch, 783 00:43:39,165 --> 00:43:41,105 that this started to happen, 784 00:43:41,205 --> 00:43:43,946 and it's very difficult not to come to that conclusion 785 00:43:44,046 --> 00:43:46,426 that they were in somehow complicit in all this, 786 00:43:46,526 --> 00:43:48,786 or somebody within the organisation was. 787 00:43:48,886 --> 00:43:50,826 Complicit in what, exactly? 788 00:43:50,926 --> 00:43:55,646 In trying to discredit David, or myself. 789 00:45:12,490 --> 00:45:14,490 Of course, they didn't print it. 790 00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:24,351 And so it finally begins. 791 00:45:24,451 --> 00:45:25,591 More revelations... 792 00:45:25,691 --> 00:45:27,391 The pressure on the News of the World grows with... 793 00:45:27,491 --> 00:45:30,111 - Another day of dramatic development. - Shocking story. 794 00:45:30,211 --> 00:45:31,271 It is alleged 795 00:45:31,371 --> 00:45:33,751 - that Glenn Mulcaire... - Hacked into the mobile phone 796 00:45:33,851 --> 00:45:35,791 of the murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler. 797 00:45:35,891 --> 00:45:38,831 Well, this poor girl's dead and they're trying to get stories. 798 00:45:38,931 --> 00:45:41,311 There is a new allegation that the tabloid may have hacked 799 00:45:41,411 --> 00:45:44,512 into the phones of the relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq. 800 00:45:44,612 --> 00:45:47,912 If these actions are proved to have been verified, 801 00:45:48,012 --> 00:45:50,512 I'm appalled and find it quite disgusting. 802 00:45:50,612 --> 00:45:52,992 Tonight, Chief Executive Rebekah Brooks says, 803 00:45:53,092 --> 00:45:55,912 we're told, that she's shocked and that she knew nothing about it. 804 00:45:56,012 --> 00:45:58,512 Today is the anniversary of 7/7. 805 00:45:58,612 --> 00:46:00,672 Relatives of victims of the London bombings 806 00:46:00,772 --> 00:46:03,232 may also have had their phones hacked into. 807 00:46:03,332 --> 00:46:06,153 Somebody was listening to that. It's a violation, isn't it? 808 00:46:06,253 --> 00:46:08,713 An extraordinary moment in British journalism. 809 00:46:08,813 --> 00:46:10,753 The News of the World is to close. 810 00:46:10,853 --> 00:46:12,793 What happened, happened very, very quickly. 811 00:46:12,893 --> 00:46:14,833 It's like a bomb has hit the place. 812 00:46:14,933 --> 00:46:17,113 Those decent people up there have been thrown out of a job today. 813 00:46:17,213 --> 00:46:19,793 The sense that everyone gets is that Rupert Murdoch 814 00:46:19,893 --> 00:46:21,673 is getting rid of the News of the World 815 00:46:21,773 --> 00:46:24,713 in order to protect taking over BSkyB. 816 00:46:24,813 --> 00:46:28,634 I'm interested in those who were responsible being brought to justice. 817 00:46:28,734 --> 00:46:31,754 Scotland Yard confirmed today that it had received documents 818 00:46:31,854 --> 00:46:33,434 suggesting a number of its officers 819 00:46:33,534 --> 00:46:36,794 were given inappropriate payments by News International. 820 00:46:36,894 --> 00:46:40,234 Paying police for information is a criminal offence. 821 00:46:40,334 --> 00:46:42,394 It's corrupt, it's bribery. 822 00:46:42,494 --> 00:46:44,794 David Cameron's former head of communications 823 00:46:44,894 --> 00:46:47,515 is arrested over corruption and phone hacking. 824 00:46:47,615 --> 00:46:50,995 The decision to hire him was mine and I take full responsibility. 825 00:46:51,095 --> 00:46:53,235 There's an awful lot I'd like to say, but I can't. 826 00:46:53,335 --> 00:46:55,835 The pressure is mounting on Rebekah Brooks. 827 00:46:55,935 --> 00:46:59,915 Both her and James Murdoch should be leaving their desks. 828 00:47:00,015 --> 00:47:01,955 The Prime Minister has announced details 829 00:47:02,055 --> 00:47:04,995 of the independent public inquiry led by Lord Justice Leveson. 830 00:47:05,095 --> 00:47:07,636 Who will have the power to summon and question... 831 00:47:07,736 --> 00:47:11,476 Newspaper proprietors, journalists, police and politicians. 832 00:47:11,576 --> 00:47:13,636 I recognise the vital importance 833 00:47:13,736 --> 00:47:17,116 of reaching a number of conclusions, and I will strive to do so. 834 00:47:17,216 --> 00:47:20,356 Rebekah Brooks, who finally bowed to pressure and resigned. 835 00:47:20,456 --> 00:47:23,556 For the past 10 days, she's been at the heart of the storm. 836 00:47:23,656 --> 00:47:25,837 Now she has decided to step away. 837 00:47:25,937 --> 00:47:28,637 Assistant Commissioner John Yates has also quit. 838 00:47:28,737 --> 00:47:31,917 It is with great regret that I make this decision. 839 00:47:32,017 --> 00:47:34,317 The mighty Murdoch empire has suffered 840 00:47:34,417 --> 00:47:36,317 its most humiliating blow yet, 841 00:47:36,417 --> 00:47:40,117 as it suddenly dropped its bid to take control of BSkyB. 842 00:47:40,217 --> 00:47:43,237 Murdoch has abandoned his bid for BSkyB 843 00:47:43,337 --> 00:47:45,317 But will he face wider consequences 844 00:47:45,417 --> 00:47:47,798 in relation to the phone hacking scandal? 845 00:47:47,898 --> 00:47:50,778 What will come next in this shocking saga? 846 00:47:58,732 --> 00:48:01,270 And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder, 847 00:48:03,350 --> 00:48:05,498 one of the four beasts saying, 848 00:48:06,539 --> 00:48:08,450 come and see. 849 00:48:09,139 --> 00:48:12,819 And I saw, and behold, 850 00:48:13,806 --> 00:48:15,959 a white horse. 851 00:48:15,984 --> 00:48:19,067 Sub extracted from file & improved by Se7enOfNin9 for addic7ed.com