1 00:00:30,999 --> 00:00:32,359 I could have been a bomb, 2 00:00:32,417 --> 00:00:34,377 I could have been in jail, I could have been dead. 3 00:00:34,419 --> 00:00:36,504 But I worked my ass off to get here. 4 00:00:45,013 --> 00:00:47,348 You hear a lot of negative things about Dennis Rodman. 5 00:00:47,807 --> 00:00:49,726 Well, people don't actually know Dennis Rodman. 6 00:00:49,809 --> 00:00:52,687 They just see what they see on the court and read in the papers, 7 00:00:52,770 --> 00:00:54,772 and they say, "God, he's a bad person." 8 00:00:56,399 --> 00:00:58,860 Does it hurt you that the public perceives you 9 00:00:58,943 --> 00:01:01,195 as this bombastic, crazy guy? 10 00:01:02,238 --> 00:01:05,074 No, I just think that I created this monster. 11 00:01:08,077 --> 00:01:11,998 But, uh, nobody could say anything bad about me as a teammate. 12 00:01:13,374 --> 00:01:15,084 You got the great Michael Jordan, 13 00:01:15,168 --> 00:01:17,295 the great Scottie Pippen, the great Phil Jackson, 14 00:01:17,879 --> 00:01:22,258 but if you take me away from this team, do they still win a championship? 15 00:01:23,926 --> 00:01:25,094 I don't think so. 16 00:01:27,180 --> 00:01:30,725 I love Michael Jordan to death. I love Scottie Pippen, all these guys, 17 00:01:30,808 --> 00:01:33,352 but they really don't do the things that I do. 18 00:01:37,523 --> 00:01:39,609 I'm the only guy who does all the dirty work, 19 00:01:39,692 --> 00:01:41,319 taking abuse from other players. 20 00:01:43,154 --> 00:01:45,823 I wanna go out there and get my nose broke, I wanna get cut. 21 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,702 Something that's gonna really just bring out the... 22 00:01:50,578 --> 00:01:52,622 the hurt, the pain. 23 00:01:53,498 --> 00:01:54,624 I wanna feel that. 24 00:01:58,252 --> 00:01:59,754 A spectacular move! 25 00:01:59,837 --> 00:02:01,422 The game's over! 26 00:02:01,506 --> 00:02:03,841 Chicago Stadium is going wild! 27 00:02:05,802 --> 00:02:08,304 First of all, there's no backstabbing going on here. 28 00:02:08,387 --> 00:02:09,263 It's time for me to move on. 29 00:02:09,347 --> 00:02:11,747 This will be Phil's last year as coach of the Bulls. 30 00:02:14,352 --> 00:02:16,914 - Are the expectations too high? - Where do we go from here? 31 00:02:16,938 --> 00:02:19,440 The only question: how long can it last? 32 00:02:35,957 --> 00:02:39,252 They still might be considered world champs, but so far this season, 33 00:02:39,335 --> 00:02:42,588 the Chicago Bulls have looked more like that old circus act from the '80s 34 00:02:42,672 --> 00:02:45,091 called "Michael and his Jordanaires." 35 00:02:45,174 --> 00:02:48,386 They need help. They're reeling, looking average. 36 00:02:48,886 --> 00:02:50,888 As for MJ's supporting cast, 37 00:02:50,972 --> 00:02:53,266 Rodman is having trouble getting out of the gate. 38 00:02:55,601 --> 00:02:59,147 Michael, are you tired of talking about Pippen and all that yet? 39 00:02:59,230 --> 00:03:00,314 Pretty much. 40 00:03:01,315 --> 00:03:03,693 Until something happens, until he says what he's gonna do, 41 00:03:03,776 --> 00:03:05,820 we have to continue on. We gotta do our jobs. 42 00:03:09,198 --> 00:03:10,449 Let's go, fellas. 43 00:03:12,785 --> 00:03:15,785 First meeting with Michael the player against Larry the coach. 44 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:17,623 Bulls and Pacers. 45 00:03:18,875 --> 00:03:20,877 Dennis Rodman, blocked by Dale Davis. 46 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,086 Reggie Miller. 47 00:03:22,712 --> 00:03:25,381 Look at the crossover, right past Jordan for the hoop. 48 00:03:25,464 --> 00:03:28,009 Phil Jackson, we've seen that look before this year. 49 00:03:28,092 --> 00:03:30,803 Pacers go on to the win, dropping the Bulls to 8-7. 50 00:03:30,887 --> 00:03:34,015 Last season, Chicago didn't lose their seventh until game 56. 51 00:03:34,473 --> 00:03:35,933 We missed a lot of easy shots. 52 00:03:36,017 --> 00:03:37,697 We haven't shot the ball particularly well. 53 00:03:38,227 --> 00:03:40,897 But, uh, tonight what killed us was our rebounding. 54 00:03:40,980 --> 00:03:42,481 Our rebounding was horrendous. 55 00:03:43,065 --> 00:03:45,346 We couldn't get the rebound, we couldn't clear the boards. 56 00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:51,908 Dennis is kind of lagging back there behind everybody else 57 00:03:51,991 --> 00:03:55,077 in, you know, his enthusiasm for the game right now. 58 00:03:55,870 --> 00:03:58,414 Dennis Rodman's the best on-ball defender 59 00:03:58,497 --> 00:04:01,459 I've ever seen in 30 years. 60 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,924 The problem was that he wasn't always motivated to play. 61 00:04:08,007 --> 00:04:10,426 It's another one of those periods that I'm bored as hell. 62 00:04:10,509 --> 00:04:14,222 I gotta find some way to put a log on the fire. 63 00:04:16,849 --> 00:04:19,227 that's a low blow down here, right? Intentional foul. 64 00:04:19,310 --> 00:04:20,561 I didn't see it that way. 65 00:04:21,395 --> 00:04:23,231 There's a lot of things I don't see. 66 00:04:27,401 --> 00:04:29,737 Most of the time, though, I see the shit you do. 67 00:04:33,950 --> 00:04:35,830 Dennis hadn't accepted the role that... 68 00:04:36,702 --> 00:04:40,081 Scottie wasn't gonna be around and we needed you to be more accountable. 69 00:04:40,164 --> 00:04:41,707 I need to count on you. 70 00:04:42,291 --> 00:04:47,338 So, around that time, we had a game, and he gets kicked out for some shit. 71 00:04:48,464 --> 00:04:51,634 And I'm livid, because he got kicked out of the game 72 00:04:51,717 --> 00:04:54,637 and leaves me out there by myself 'cause Scottie's not playing. 73 00:04:55,221 --> 00:04:57,974 And Dennis knew he fucked up. He knew he screwed up. 74 00:04:59,809 --> 00:05:02,436 I hear someone knocking on my door at the hotel. 75 00:05:03,271 --> 00:05:05,314 Now, Dennis never comes in my room, 76 00:05:05,398 --> 00:05:08,025 and he comes and says, "Man, you got an extra cigar?" 77 00:05:08,818 --> 00:05:11,320 I went to Michael Jordan's room, asked for a cigar, but... 78 00:05:11,737 --> 00:05:14,824 But I think that he knew the fact that... 79 00:05:15,366 --> 00:05:16,867 That's probably his way... 80 00:05:16,951 --> 00:05:20,663 Of me showing him that, you know, "Man, my thing, my bad." 81 00:05:21,664 --> 00:05:23,833 He didn't say an apology, he didn't say anything, 82 00:05:24,417 --> 00:05:25,793 but by him coming to my room, 83 00:05:25,876 --> 00:05:28,004 it was his way of saying, "Look, I fucked up." 84 00:05:29,213 --> 00:05:32,216 And from that point on, Dennis was straight as an arrow. 85 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,218 And we started to win. 86 00:05:34,302 --> 00:05:36,012 I'd like to ask y'all one question. 87 00:05:36,095 --> 00:05:38,431 - What time is it? - Game time! 88 00:05:48,858 --> 00:05:52,278 When Scottie left, I think Mike had a lot of confidence in me 89 00:05:52,361 --> 00:05:54,447 to know that I'm gonna be there for him. 90 00:05:54,530 --> 00:05:57,158 I'm not going to let him down, I'm not going to let the team down, 91 00:05:57,241 --> 00:05:58,826 let the city down. No. 92 00:06:00,953 --> 00:06:03,748 Rodman clears the defensive board for the Bulls. 93 00:06:06,542 --> 00:06:10,087 Nets gave it a whirl, but just did not have enough. 94 00:06:10,171 --> 00:06:15,885 The defending champion Chicago Bulls knocked off the New Jersey Nets 100 to 92. 95 00:06:15,968 --> 00:06:18,679 Dennis is what held us together when Scottie was out. 96 00:06:19,305 --> 00:06:22,975 He had to really focus to make us as competitive as we were. 97 00:06:23,934 --> 00:06:27,646 We adapt and we adapt quickly, and we're off and running. 98 00:06:27,730 --> 00:06:30,900 Rodman, battling for the rebound, saving it in! 99 00:06:30,983 --> 00:06:33,027 And Kerr snatches it out of the air, 100 00:06:33,569 --> 00:06:34,569 and drills it! 101 00:06:34,612 --> 00:06:37,156 Now that's... that's winning basketball. 102 00:06:37,239 --> 00:06:42,036 Those are the plays that Dennis Rodman does to make his team great. 103 00:06:42,661 --> 00:06:43,662 Awesome. 104 00:06:56,384 --> 00:06:59,053 As a black kid living in the projects, 105 00:06:59,136 --> 00:07:01,972 life was really fucking nuts, right, it was like... Whoa! 106 00:07:04,683 --> 00:07:06,727 My mother drove buses for the school. 107 00:07:07,228 --> 00:07:10,815 She got sick and tired of my ass not providing, not doing anything. 108 00:07:10,898 --> 00:07:14,026 And, I think... What was I, 18? 109 00:07:14,568 --> 00:07:16,362 She just got tired of me and kicked me out 110 00:07:16,445 --> 00:07:18,364 so I lived in the street for two years. 111 00:07:20,157 --> 00:07:22,952 I was just trying to bounce around, see where I could stay at. 112 00:07:23,911 --> 00:07:26,831 People's backyards, my friends' backyards, stuff like that. 113 00:07:26,914 --> 00:07:28,958 I could've been a drug dealer, I could've been dead, 114 00:07:29,041 --> 00:07:31,168 I could've been... Shit, anything at that time. 115 00:07:32,086 --> 00:07:35,297 I don't know why I never did that drug stuff, but I never did. 116 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,260 I'd just sit there and watch 'em do it, watch 'em sell it, stuff like that, 117 00:07:39,343 --> 00:07:41,762 and I walk out the door every day, go to the gym. 118 00:07:41,846 --> 00:07:44,140 Come back, do the same thing every day. 119 00:07:44,223 --> 00:07:47,643 I was just fortunate to start picking up a basketball and start playing. 120 00:07:49,728 --> 00:07:51,522 And I just got lucky that 121 00:07:51,605 --> 00:07:54,316 some guy from some college said, "Dennis, you wanna play for us?" 122 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:55,776 I was like, "All right, great." 123 00:07:57,778 --> 00:08:01,657 I went balls-out every time. I don't know. I just know how to go full speed. 124 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:07,371 So, when I was in college, I averaged, like, 27 points, 14, 15, rebounds a game. 125 00:08:12,418 --> 00:08:17,548 I'm trying to get through school, try to get a degree and things, 126 00:08:18,090 --> 00:08:23,220 and whatever's... When I finish school, I just hope for the best. 127 00:08:23,304 --> 00:08:26,432 We had two other picks in the second round that I'll give you quickly. 128 00:08:26,515 --> 00:08:28,893 Greg Dreiling went to Indiana, the big center, 129 00:08:28,976 --> 00:08:32,480 and Dennis Rodman, the youngster from Southeast Oklahoma State, 130 00:08:32,563 --> 00:08:36,025 went to Detroit as the 27th pick in the 1986 draft. 131 00:08:37,109 --> 00:08:42,406 When he first came to Detroit, he was just an innocent, beautiful person, 132 00:08:42,490 --> 00:08:45,868 but a little naive about, like, the world. 133 00:08:46,702 --> 00:08:48,996 He was simple at that time. 134 00:08:49,497 --> 00:08:51,707 He would say, "Man, you don't know life 135 00:08:51,790 --> 00:08:54,668 till you can just go out, get away from everybody, 136 00:08:55,377 --> 00:08:59,423 make a fire, cook food outside, and just look at the stars." 137 00:09:01,509 --> 00:09:03,709 I think the second or third year in the league, 138 00:09:03,761 --> 00:09:07,848 I actually figured out what I can do best: rebound and play defense. 139 00:09:07,932 --> 00:09:09,975 Barkley, with the drive... 140 00:09:10,059 --> 00:09:12,728 I just started learning how to perfect that. 141 00:09:12,811 --> 00:09:14,939 Holy cow! How about that? 142 00:09:15,022 --> 00:09:17,024 I used to have my friends late at night, 143 00:09:17,107 --> 00:09:20,861 shit, 3:00, 4:00 in the morning, go to the gym. I said, "Shoot the ball." 144 00:09:20,945 --> 00:09:23,489 I said, "Shoot over here, shoot over there..." 145 00:09:23,572 --> 00:09:25,866 I'd just sit there, react, react. 146 00:09:26,867 --> 00:09:30,371 I practiced a lot about the angle of the ball and trajectory of it. 147 00:09:30,454 --> 00:09:34,375 You got a Larry Bird, it's gonna spin. You got a Magic, it maybe spin. 148 00:09:34,458 --> 00:09:37,294 When Michael shoot over here, I position myself right there. 149 00:09:37,378 --> 00:09:39,964 Now if it hit the rim, it's... Boom. 150 00:09:40,047 --> 00:09:42,424 Click and go back this way. It going here and here. 151 00:09:42,508 --> 00:09:43,676 Click, it going that way. 152 00:09:43,759 --> 00:09:44,802 Boom! That way. 153 00:09:44,885 --> 00:09:46,637 Click here and go this way. 154 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,099 So, basically, I started learning how to put myself in a position to get the ball. 155 00:09:50,182 --> 00:09:52,643 Rebound, kept alive by Rodman, and... 156 00:09:53,602 --> 00:09:56,730 I was pretty much like that rash on players, 157 00:09:56,814 --> 00:09:58,983 that rash you can't never get rid of, right? 158 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:07,157 Dennis Rodman was the fuck-up person. He just fucks everything up. 159 00:10:07,950 --> 00:10:12,037 He's a pest. Shutting down whoever he wanted to. 160 00:10:12,663 --> 00:10:14,039 It was always a challenge. 161 00:10:14,748 --> 00:10:19,003 He was one of them players that had changed the game just by his presence. 162 00:10:20,045 --> 00:10:23,674 You talk about coach's dreams, there aren't many players like him. 163 00:10:23,757 --> 00:10:27,553 Couldn't be a player I'm more proud of and proud to be associated with. 164 00:10:27,636 --> 00:10:30,139 He had a great relationship with Chuck Daly. 165 00:10:30,222 --> 00:10:33,058 Chuck was the only person that understood him. 166 00:10:33,142 --> 00:10:34,435 Let's say your guy stops side, 167 00:10:34,518 --> 00:10:37,062 you're in here, you're defense, lock him here. 168 00:10:37,146 --> 00:10:39,898 I remember one time, I was working with Dennis, 169 00:10:39,982 --> 00:10:43,694 and then Chuck called me over, and he said, "Just leave him alone. 170 00:10:44,695 --> 00:10:46,780 You don't put a saddle on a mustang." 171 00:10:50,909 --> 00:10:53,912 Were you considered a troublemaker on the court in college? 172 00:10:53,996 --> 00:10:56,957 - Did you have that reputation? - No. I built that in Detroit. 173 00:10:57,041 --> 00:10:58,626 There's no disputing that Detroit 174 00:10:58,709 --> 00:11:01,378 is one of the most physical teams in the NBA, 175 00:11:01,462 --> 00:11:03,339 and it's all part of their strategy 176 00:11:03,422 --> 00:11:05,758 to take their opponents out of their rhythm. 177 00:11:06,717 --> 00:11:09,720 The Detroit Pistons were the epitome 178 00:11:09,803 --> 00:11:16,185 of the physical, tough, hard-nosed brand of half-court basketball. 179 00:11:16,268 --> 00:11:23,233 They had big strong guys in Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, Salley. 180 00:11:23,317 --> 00:11:27,821 They had a great defensive player in Joe Dumars, they had Isiah Thomas. 181 00:11:28,405 --> 00:11:31,617 Were they threatening the safety of the league's top players? 182 00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:34,828 I don't think they cared. 183 00:11:36,830 --> 00:11:40,417 Wilkins gets knocked to the deck, and wants Mahorn. 184 00:11:41,835 --> 00:11:43,212 Rivers... 185 00:11:43,295 --> 00:11:46,256 Pushed hard. I mean, he was driven to the floor. 186 00:11:47,007 --> 00:11:50,344 At that time, in the NBA, you could do anything you want. 187 00:11:51,387 --> 00:11:54,431 Compared to today, 30 years ago, shit. 188 00:11:54,515 --> 00:11:58,310 Back then, you could just sit there and just literally beat people up 189 00:11:58,894 --> 00:12:01,647 and get away with it without a technical or anything. 190 00:12:01,730 --> 00:12:06,276 Dennis Rodman and Lohaus, under the basket, going at it. 191 00:12:07,903 --> 00:12:10,614 We're like a hockey team, everybody wanna see us fight. 192 00:12:10,698 --> 00:12:13,283 Rick Mahorn taught me how to elbow and said, 193 00:12:13,367 --> 00:12:15,285 "If you hit somebody, do it on purpose. 194 00:12:15,786 --> 00:12:19,331 Don't get a cheap foul. That's stupid. If you're gonna hit him, hit him." 195 00:12:19,415 --> 00:12:22,418 They acquired the moniker "The Bad Boys." 196 00:12:23,085 --> 00:12:28,257 They played a tough, intimidating style, and a lot of people didn't like it 197 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:31,176 'cause it was getting away from the beauty of basketball. 198 00:12:31,260 --> 00:12:33,804 Bird and Laimbeer go at it. 199 00:12:33,887 --> 00:12:37,224 We weren't "the league's favorite." We weren't the... 200 00:12:37,307 --> 00:12:41,895 We weren't the pretty team that had got invited to the Lakers' and Celtics' party. 201 00:12:41,979 --> 00:12:46,150 When we showed up, it was almost like we were crashing their party. 202 00:12:46,233 --> 00:12:49,194 This is the way the game of basketball was played at the time. 203 00:12:49,278 --> 00:12:52,281 These guys on the other side may not be as talented, 204 00:12:52,364 --> 00:12:54,116 but when you do come into Detroit, 205 00:12:54,908 --> 00:12:56,493 you gonna get your ass whooped. 206 00:12:56,577 --> 00:12:59,955 We got a fight. Laimbeer and Daugherty going after it. 207 00:13:00,831 --> 00:13:03,208 We just basically... "Okay, we're the bad boys." 208 00:13:03,292 --> 00:13:06,295 We started feeding into it. Next thing you know, we starting to win. 209 00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:13,594 The Pistons had overtaken the Celtics 210 00:13:13,677 --> 00:13:15,888 as kings of the Eastern Conference, 211 00:13:15,971 --> 00:13:20,350 and they're rolling along just as the Bulls are really starting to emerge. 212 00:13:22,227 --> 00:13:25,689 In '86-'87, when Jerry Krause made a head coaching hire, 213 00:13:26,190 --> 00:13:29,443 I think we all felt that we needed something different. 214 00:13:30,152 --> 00:13:31,987 This speaks to Jerry's strengths. 215 00:13:32,488 --> 00:13:35,073 He identified a young Doug Collins, 216 00:13:35,157 --> 00:13:40,370 who he felt would bring an energy and enthusiasm that a young team needed. 217 00:13:40,454 --> 00:13:42,998 This is a game that we need to have high energy. 218 00:13:43,081 --> 00:13:46,335 We have a high energy level. We win tonight, we got tomorrow off, 219 00:13:46,418 --> 00:13:49,189 so you can spend all night in LA doing whatever you want. I don't care. 220 00:13:49,213 --> 00:13:52,174 Otherwise, we got practice tomorrow... 221 00:13:52,257 --> 00:13:54,802 Dougie was a breath of fresh air. 222 00:13:54,885 --> 00:13:57,638 He believed in everything that I believed in. He wanted to win. 223 00:13:57,721 --> 00:14:00,057 He was an easy guy, great guy to play for. 224 00:14:00,140 --> 00:14:05,103 Welcome, sports fans, this is the Chicago sports... casino. 225 00:14:05,187 --> 00:14:07,272 - He cheats. - Man! Take that! 226 00:14:07,356 --> 00:14:10,192 - Wins again. - Bet, bet, bet. 227 00:14:10,275 --> 00:14:13,654 - We know why he win, he got kings. - Kings, that's right. 228 00:14:13,737 --> 00:14:17,741 Doug's energy on the sideline was unparalleled. 229 00:14:18,325 --> 00:14:22,246 He'd walk off the floor of a game, and he would be drenched in sweat. 230 00:14:22,329 --> 00:14:24,832 I mean, he just... He looked like he played. 231 00:14:24,915 --> 00:14:28,168 Let's make sure, above all, we get some rest. 232 00:14:28,252 --> 00:14:31,129 Detroit, we're one and four against those. 233 00:14:31,213 --> 00:14:35,968 And it's on national TV, and I want to beat those guys on Sunday. Let's go. 234 00:14:36,051 --> 00:14:37,636 Yeah! 235 00:14:38,637 --> 00:14:40,222 The year before I came, 236 00:14:40,305 --> 00:14:43,976 the Bulls had been eliminated by Boston in the playoffs. 237 00:14:44,518 --> 00:14:45,936 The ball game's over. 238 00:14:46,019 --> 00:14:48,230 The series goes to Boston in three straight. 239 00:14:48,313 --> 00:14:51,316 The final score, 122-104, Celtics. 240 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,610 The roster was a little thin at that time. 241 00:14:53,694 --> 00:14:57,197 I'd seen Michael play, but I really never had spent any time around him. 242 00:14:57,281 --> 00:14:59,408 Number 34, Charles Oakley. 243 00:14:59,491 --> 00:15:02,011 Our second-best player at the time was Charles Oakley. 244 00:15:02,035 --> 00:15:04,705 He was a vicious rebounder, brought a lot of toughness. 245 00:15:04,788 --> 00:15:07,583 John Paxson was on that team, Dave Corzine. 246 00:15:08,292 --> 00:15:10,794 And their head coach, Doug Collins. 247 00:15:10,878 --> 00:15:14,715 The first game I coached, we went to Madison Square Garden. 248 00:15:14,798 --> 00:15:18,176 And the Knicks had Patrick Ewing, Bill Cartwright, they were loaded. 249 00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:19,595 Hubie Brown, Hall of Fame coach. 250 00:15:20,262 --> 00:15:22,931 Two minutes to go in the game. The game was tied. 251 00:15:23,015 --> 00:15:24,391 I'm soaking wet with sweat. 252 00:15:24,474 --> 00:15:27,269 I've chewed my gum to a powder, it's around my mouth. 253 00:15:27,352 --> 00:15:30,898 And I saw this hand come out with a cup of water, 254 00:15:30,981 --> 00:15:33,609 and it was Michael Jordan. He looked at me and said, 255 00:15:33,692 --> 00:15:36,820 "Coach, take a drink of that water, clean that stuff off your mouth. 256 00:15:36,904 --> 00:15:38,655 I'm not gonna let you lose your first game." 257 00:15:39,281 --> 00:15:40,721 Here's Jordan again. 258 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,201 All alone... 259 00:15:44,119 --> 00:15:45,746 Turns, off the glass. 260 00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:47,998 Forty-two points for Michael Jordan. 261 00:15:48,707 --> 00:15:52,085 Ten seconds on the shot clock, Rory Sparrow working on it. 262 00:15:52,169 --> 00:15:54,338 Jordan, to the basket, scores. 263 00:15:54,421 --> 00:15:57,966 He went out and scored the last ten points of the game, ended up with 50. 264 00:15:58,050 --> 00:16:02,512 Michael Jordan setting a new Madison Square Garden record 265 00:16:02,596 --> 00:16:05,265 for an opposing player tonight, scoring 50 points. 266 00:16:05,349 --> 00:16:08,769 The Chicago Bulls make Doug Collins a winner his first time out, 267 00:16:08,852 --> 00:16:11,271 and it is a happy Doug Collins on the far side. 268 00:16:11,355 --> 00:16:13,815 I remember being on the plane, going back to Chicago, I said, 269 00:16:13,899 --> 00:16:17,611 "Wow. This guy is something like I've never seen before." 270 00:16:17,694 --> 00:16:19,988 Doug and I, we're like this, you know. 271 00:16:20,572 --> 00:16:22,032 He designed the offense 272 00:16:22,866 --> 00:16:26,161 to support the way I play the game and the way he wanted to coach. 273 00:16:26,244 --> 00:16:29,081 It's all right, Michael. It's all right. 274 00:16:29,164 --> 00:16:30,999 I think he loved my competitiveness. 275 00:16:31,083 --> 00:16:35,212 He understands that the greatest respect you can give a great player 276 00:16:35,295 --> 00:16:37,255 is to coach him and coach him hard. 277 00:16:41,593 --> 00:16:43,136 Michael's big thing was, 278 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:45,347 "Stack the practice against me and I'll still win." 279 00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:50,018 Doug always tried to maintain a competitive advantage in practice. 280 00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:56,692 I'd be with the starting five. 281 00:16:57,943 --> 00:16:59,236 Then next thing you know, 282 00:16:59,319 --> 00:17:01,905 while I was winning, he'd put me with the second team. 283 00:17:01,989 --> 00:17:04,909 One day at practice, he got upset. He thought I was cheating on the score. 284 00:17:05,575 --> 00:17:11,581 And, uh, he got upset and left practice, and, uh, we came back the next day, 285 00:17:11,665 --> 00:17:14,584 they were asking, "You talked to Michael since practice yesterday?" 286 00:17:14,668 --> 00:17:18,005 I said, "I haven't had a chance. We will." Then Michael came out. 287 00:17:18,088 --> 00:17:20,173 I reached over, grabbed him, kissed him on the cheek. 288 00:17:20,257 --> 00:17:21,842 I said, "I love him. He loves me." 289 00:17:21,925 --> 00:17:24,678 - Would you come here so we can kiss on TV? - Here we go. 290 00:17:25,178 --> 00:17:28,515 - Would you tell them everything is fine? - Aww. 291 00:17:28,598 --> 00:17:30,660 We've kissed and made up now. 292 00:17:30,684 --> 00:17:36,523 I coached him for three years, from the '86-'87 season through '88-'89. 293 00:17:37,774 --> 00:17:41,069 When I was coaching him, he was the MVP of the league. 294 00:17:41,153 --> 00:17:43,113 in deep, scoops it in! 295 00:17:43,822 --> 00:17:45,991 He was the MVP of the All-Star Game. 296 00:17:49,661 --> 00:17:51,580 He won the slam dunk competition... 297 00:17:53,165 --> 00:17:54,958 and he was the Defensive Player of the Year. 298 00:17:55,042 --> 00:17:56,602 pass stolen by Jordan. 299 00:17:56,668 --> 00:17:59,921 Michael Jordan takes it coast-to-coast. Whoo! 300 00:18:00,714 --> 00:18:02,090 That's greatness. 301 00:18:02,174 --> 00:18:04,801 You know, I mean, he was now the best player. 302 00:19:50,157 --> 00:19:52,909 Under Doug Collins, the Bulls were rapidly improving, 303 00:19:52,993 --> 00:19:57,414 and suddenly becoming a real contender in the Eastern Conference. 304 00:19:57,497 --> 00:20:02,752 Detroit was certainly, at the time, the team to beat in the east, 305 00:20:02,836 --> 00:20:04,671 but who was going to be their challenger? 306 00:20:04,754 --> 00:20:07,716 Who was going to really rise up and challenge Detroit? 307 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:09,676 It was gonna be one of two teams. 308 00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:12,095 The Bulls were in ascension, obviously, at that time, 309 00:20:12,179 --> 00:20:15,640 with their young core of Jordan and Pippen and Horace Grant. 310 00:20:15,724 --> 00:20:19,769 But Cleveland was, at the time, a great team. 311 00:20:19,853 --> 00:20:22,731 So these are the two rising teams in the east. 312 00:20:24,816 --> 00:20:28,028 The Bulls play Cleveland in '89 in a best-three-of-five. 313 00:20:28,737 --> 00:20:30,947 Most basketball observers believed 314 00:20:31,031 --> 00:20:32,574 Cleveland was better. 315 00:20:32,657 --> 00:20:34,284 Nobody has picked the Bulls. 316 00:20:34,367 --> 00:20:37,662 The media picked Cavs. Everybody's picked, nationally, the Cavs. 317 00:20:37,746 --> 00:20:42,000 Back then, we played teams six times in our division. 318 00:20:42,959 --> 00:20:45,962 They beat us six times, 6-0. 319 00:20:46,671 --> 00:20:48,840 So now in our mind, we got nothing to lose. 320 00:20:50,508 --> 00:20:53,803 Bulls win the first game, Cleveland wins the second in Cleveland. 321 00:20:53,887 --> 00:20:55,767 Tied 1-1 with Cleveland's victory. 322 00:20:55,805 --> 00:20:57,974 Back to Chicago, Bulls win game three. 323 00:20:58,058 --> 00:21:00,352 Chicago wins it, 101-94. 324 00:21:00,936 --> 00:21:04,981 Game four, Jordan's got a free throw at the end of regulation, misses. 325 00:21:06,274 --> 00:21:09,903 Missed it. The Cavaliers have kept their hopes alive. 326 00:21:09,986 --> 00:21:11,863 We go back to Cleveland for game five. 327 00:21:11,947 --> 00:21:15,784 And welcome to the Richfield Coliseum for game five 328 00:21:15,867 --> 00:21:18,620 between the Chicago Bulls and the Cleveland Cavaliers. 329 00:21:19,537 --> 00:21:21,790 Up to that time, the franchise, 330 00:21:21,873 --> 00:21:24,084 the history of the Bulls was blowing leads. 331 00:21:24,167 --> 00:21:26,836 And you're like, "Oh, my God, this is gonna happen again. 332 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,215 They're gonna blow this. They're gonna lose the series to Cleveland." 333 00:21:30,298 --> 00:21:33,802 So, game's about to start, and there was two other beat writers. 334 00:21:34,511 --> 00:21:37,013 Beat writer from the Sun-Times, Lacy Banks 335 00:21:37,097 --> 00:21:39,432 and Kent McDill from the Herald and me. 336 00:21:40,350 --> 00:21:42,852 And Lacy's picked the Cavs to sweep in three. 337 00:21:42,936 --> 00:21:46,690 Kent's picked the Cavs to win in four, and I've picked the Cavs to win in five. 338 00:21:47,274 --> 00:21:49,484 So, Michael... Game's just about to start, 339 00:21:49,567 --> 00:21:53,238 Michael walks over to Lacy, and points to him and says, "We took care of you." 340 00:21:53,321 --> 00:21:55,824 He looks at Kent and says, "We took care of you." 341 00:21:55,907 --> 00:21:58,493 And he looks at me, "And we take care of you today." 342 00:22:00,495 --> 00:22:02,872 Mark Price and Ron Harper in the backcourt 343 00:22:02,956 --> 00:22:05,000 and we're underway. Cleveland has it. 344 00:22:06,209 --> 00:22:08,461 We went back and forth the whole time. 345 00:22:08,545 --> 00:22:11,339 Jordan against Harper, great turnaround. 346 00:22:11,423 --> 00:22:12,966 It was a very tough game. 347 00:22:13,049 --> 00:22:14,634 This is the playoffs, 348 00:22:14,718 --> 00:22:18,179 and here we have two great teams right here, guys that lay it out. 349 00:22:18,263 --> 00:22:19,306 It was a constant battle. 350 00:22:32,944 --> 00:22:35,584 We have had drama in the final minutes of the game. 351 00:22:35,655 --> 00:22:38,116 - Eleven seconds to go. - In the middle... 352 00:22:38,199 --> 00:22:39,451 Jordan has it, 353 00:22:39,534 --> 00:22:43,246 and Jordan puts up a jumper and hits, with six seconds to go. 354 00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:47,334 Jordan hits the basket and now has 42 points in the game, 355 00:22:47,417 --> 00:22:50,045 and the Cavaliers have called a timeout. 356 00:22:50,628 --> 00:22:53,882 Ehlo will inbound. He gets it in to Nance, gets the ball back, 357 00:22:53,965 --> 00:22:57,052 drives to the hoop, lays it in with three seconds to go. 358 00:23:02,891 --> 00:23:05,226 Here's our story, here at Richfield Coliseum. 359 00:23:05,310 --> 00:23:09,606 One of these teams will advance. It has been a thrilling game. 360 00:23:09,689 --> 00:23:14,527 The Bulls have three seconds to try a shot and try to win the game. 361 00:23:15,236 --> 00:23:17,364 Everybody knew where the ball was gonna go. 362 00:23:18,865 --> 00:23:22,410 They had Craig Ehlo on me at the time which, 363 00:23:23,370 --> 00:23:24,746 honestly, was a mistake, 364 00:23:25,413 --> 00:23:28,416 because the guy that played me better was Ron Harper. 365 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,752 We up by one. 366 00:23:30,835 --> 00:23:33,380 I said, "Coach, I got MJ. 367 00:23:34,631 --> 00:23:35,924 I got MJ." 368 00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:40,678 So the coach tells me, "I'm gonna put Ehlo on MJ." 369 00:23:41,304 --> 00:23:42,389 And I'm, like... 370 00:23:43,932 --> 00:23:46,601 "Yeah, okay, whatever, fuck this bullshit." 371 00:23:47,727 --> 00:23:51,689 Defense! Defense! 372 00:23:52,315 --> 00:23:55,902 We drew a play where I was coming to the ball. 373 00:23:57,153 --> 00:24:00,115 But I only had time to get one dribble and get a jump shot off. 374 00:24:01,074 --> 00:24:03,326 We were gonna live and die with that scenario. 375 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,538 So I was doing everything I can to get the ball. 376 00:24:07,288 --> 00:24:09,416 The inbounds pass comes in to Jordan. 377 00:24:09,499 --> 00:24:11,876 Here's Michael at the foul line, a shot on Ehlo... 378 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,046 Good! The Bulls win, they win it! 379 00:24:19,843 --> 00:24:25,140 And Chicago has knocked off the Cavs, 101-100. 380 00:24:25,223 --> 00:24:27,600 Michael! Michael, you stuck it, baby! 381 00:24:28,476 --> 00:24:29,853 Michael, you stuck it, baby. 382 00:24:29,936 --> 00:24:31,354 - You stuck it! - Yeah! 383 00:24:33,106 --> 00:24:35,817 I feel very vindicated from when we started the playoff 384 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:38,111 with the dim look that everybody was giving us... 385 00:24:38,194 --> 00:24:40,738 Even I asked you in the locker room, I asked everybody, 386 00:24:40,822 --> 00:24:44,325 "What was the feeling back in Chicago? Did they write us off yet?" 387 00:24:44,409 --> 00:24:46,161 You said, "Some of 'em have written us off." 388 00:24:46,244 --> 00:24:47,829 I said, "Tell those guys to stay home." 389 00:24:48,413 --> 00:24:51,133 Somebody had written or said, "The Bulls were gonna go home, 390 00:24:51,624 --> 00:24:52,876 send them home." 391 00:24:52,959 --> 00:24:56,045 So when he hits the shot, "Go home, motherfuckers, go home." 392 00:24:56,129 --> 00:25:00,175 Get the fuck out of here, go fucking anywhere, but you out of here. 393 00:25:00,258 --> 00:25:02,886 Whoever is not with us, all you fuckers, go to hell. 394 00:25:02,969 --> 00:25:06,264 Jordan beat them at the buzzer with a jump shot. 395 00:25:06,347 --> 00:25:08,808 It was so dramatic and it was typical 396 00:25:08,892 --> 00:25:12,228 of what we'd see Michael do the rest of his career in big moments. 397 00:25:12,312 --> 00:25:16,983 That shot enabled the Bulls to start growing 398 00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:19,694 and believing that something special was on the horizon. 399 00:25:19,777 --> 00:25:22,906 We finally got over the hump of losers' mentality. 400 00:25:22,989 --> 00:25:25,450 We were starting to become a winning franchise, 401 00:25:26,034 --> 00:25:28,453 and, you know, the sky was the limit. 402 00:25:29,954 --> 00:25:34,417 How high can this man fly? Michael Jordan is soaring 403 00:25:34,501 --> 00:25:36,794 and the Chicago Bulls are going right with him. 404 00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:40,215 But now Superman faces his toughest test. 405 00:25:40,798 --> 00:25:45,178 And we bring you the first game of the Eastern Conference Championship 406 00:25:45,261 --> 00:25:50,475 between the underdog Chicago Bulls and the favored Detroit Pistons. 407 00:25:51,142 --> 00:25:55,104 The NBA was invested in making Michael Jordan its star. 408 00:25:55,855 --> 00:25:57,106 The Pistons were... 409 00:25:58,107 --> 00:25:59,817 slowing that down. 410 00:25:59,901 --> 00:26:05,698 We knew how important to the NBA it was to get Michael to go to the next level. 411 00:26:05,782 --> 00:26:10,995 The blueprint was Larry, Magic, now Michael. 412 00:26:12,330 --> 00:26:15,208 And all of a sudden, there was this little team in Detroit 413 00:26:15,291 --> 00:26:17,460 who just messed up the whole story. 414 00:26:18,044 --> 00:26:19,045 We loved that. 415 00:26:19,128 --> 00:26:21,047 How legitimate was the hatred 416 00:26:21,130 --> 00:26:23,258 between those Bulls teams and those Pistons? 417 00:26:23,341 --> 00:26:24,342 Oh, I hated 'em. 418 00:26:25,426 --> 00:26:27,470 Yeah, the hate carries even to this day. 419 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,684 They made it personal. They physically beat the shit out of us. 420 00:26:32,767 --> 00:26:34,978 When we played the Pistons in that series, 421 00:26:35,061 --> 00:26:38,731 it was... it was arm-to-arm physical combat. 422 00:26:40,525 --> 00:26:42,944 But we never backed down. We fought them. 423 00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:46,489 The Bulls have won the first game. 424 00:26:46,573 --> 00:26:48,199 So we got game one. 425 00:26:48,283 --> 00:26:49,534 They won game two. 426 00:26:50,243 --> 00:26:51,953 We came back to Chicago, 427 00:26:52,036 --> 00:26:54,455 Michael had one of the most incredible games. 428 00:26:55,123 --> 00:26:58,501 Jordan. Steal, he kept it in bounds, here it is again. 429 00:26:59,877 --> 00:27:01,796 Oh! Yes! 430 00:27:03,214 --> 00:27:07,510 You'll see him elevate, do a 360 and just toss it up. 431 00:27:07,594 --> 00:27:09,554 Pippen, finds Jordan. 432 00:27:09,637 --> 00:27:11,347 Rodman is on him, one-on-one. 433 00:27:12,098 --> 00:27:13,558 Five seconds to go. 434 00:27:13,641 --> 00:27:15,768 Jordan, off the glass. Yes! 435 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,606 It's over. Chicago wins. 436 00:27:22,859 --> 00:27:24,739 What was your call on that last play? 437 00:27:25,737 --> 00:27:29,490 That was, "Get the ball to Michael, everybody get the fuck out of the way..." 438 00:27:29,574 --> 00:27:31,734 "... and go to the basket." 439 00:27:34,621 --> 00:27:36,247 Jordan pretty much took over the game, 440 00:27:36,331 --> 00:27:38,750 made all the big field goals down the stretch, 441 00:27:38,833 --> 00:27:41,544 showed like the... Showed the superstar he really is. 442 00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:44,380 Chuck, how do you bounce back? 443 00:27:46,215 --> 00:27:48,885 We knew Michael Jordan's the greatest player, 444 00:27:49,719 --> 00:27:53,514 and we tried to use it as a rallying cry to come together. 445 00:27:54,599 --> 00:27:59,062 We had to do everything from a physicality standpoint to stop him. 446 00:27:59,562 --> 00:28:03,316 Detroit had "Jordan Rules" just for Michael. 447 00:28:03,983 --> 00:28:05,735 I don't know how he came out of it alive. 448 00:28:06,402 --> 00:28:08,404 The infamous "Jordan Rules," 449 00:28:08,488 --> 00:28:11,741 the Pistons' defensive tactics designed to contain their namesake, 450 00:28:11,824 --> 00:28:14,369 are enforced whenever Michael is on the floor. 451 00:28:14,452 --> 00:28:16,663 When he was in the air, we had no shot. 452 00:28:16,746 --> 00:28:21,042 Uh, but when everything was on the floor, you can hold your own. 453 00:28:21,125 --> 00:28:23,252 You have to stop him before he takes flight 454 00:28:23,336 --> 00:28:25,213 'cause, you know, he's not human. 455 00:28:25,922 --> 00:28:27,402 Michael Jordan. Fouled. 456 00:28:28,299 --> 00:28:31,219 Jordan. Jordan again, pushed. 457 00:28:31,302 --> 00:28:34,389 Here again, the implementation of the "Jordan Rules." 458 00:28:36,432 --> 00:28:39,060 The Pistons will even it up at two apiece, 459 00:28:39,143 --> 00:28:42,188 and the story of this game, the Detroit defense. 460 00:28:42,939 --> 00:28:45,024 This is what the "Jordan Rules" were: 461 00:28:45,525 --> 00:28:49,195 on the wings, we're going to push him to the elbow, 462 00:28:49,779 --> 00:28:52,240 and we're not gonna let him drive to the baseline. 463 00:28:53,616 --> 00:28:57,954 Number two: when he's on top, we're going to influence him to his left. 464 00:28:59,205 --> 00:29:03,042 When he got the ball in the low post, we were going to trap him from the top. 465 00:29:03,126 --> 00:29:05,628 That's the "Jordan Rules," and it was that simple. 466 00:29:06,379 --> 00:29:08,660 What happens when he does make the baseline? 467 00:29:09,507 --> 00:29:12,885 That's when Laimbeer and Mahorn would go up and knock him down to the ground. 468 00:29:15,054 --> 00:29:17,223 As soon as he steps in the paint... 469 00:29:18,266 --> 00:29:19,266 hit him. 470 00:29:19,976 --> 00:29:22,437 Chuck Daly said, "This is a 'Jordan Rule:' 471 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,939 every time he go to the basket, put him on the ground." 472 00:29:25,648 --> 00:29:27,400 He comes to the basket, he ain't gonna dunk. 473 00:29:27,483 --> 00:29:29,318 We gonna hit you. You gonna be on the ground. 474 00:29:29,402 --> 00:29:30,802 Jordan is still down. 475 00:29:30,862 --> 00:29:32,756 We are trying to physically hurt Michael. 476 00:29:32,780 --> 00:29:36,075 Jordan had no place to go. Clobbered. 477 00:29:37,243 --> 00:29:38,870 How bad do you want it? 478 00:29:39,537 --> 00:29:42,790 Are you willing to be injured to score a basket? 479 00:29:42,874 --> 00:29:46,210 The Pistons want to make Jordan pay whenever he gets in the paint. 480 00:29:46,294 --> 00:29:49,964 The referees back then didn't look to see if Michael was hurt or not. 481 00:29:50,047 --> 00:29:53,926 It wasn't, "Make sure that the savior is okay," it wasn't... 482 00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:55,386 That wasn't the way it is. 483 00:29:56,804 --> 00:30:01,768 It is over at the Palace. The Pistons have beaten the Bulls. 484 00:30:03,144 --> 00:30:06,689 I could compare Michael Jordan to nobody because for him to survive that 485 00:30:06,773 --> 00:30:11,277 and still maintain that greatness, I mean, it's very unparalleled. 486 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,197 We were not ready for the Detroit Pistons 487 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,573 at that point in time. 488 00:30:15,656 --> 00:30:19,786 They were more physical than us. Uh, they were the aggressors. 489 00:30:19,869 --> 00:30:21,412 Detroit had our number. 490 00:30:21,496 --> 00:30:25,374 The Detroit Pistons, by virtue of a 103-94 victory, 491 00:30:25,458 --> 00:30:28,503 have eliminated the Bulls and indeed are headed for the finals. 492 00:30:28,586 --> 00:30:31,464 Unfortunately for the Bulls, the story was the same. 493 00:30:31,547 --> 00:30:33,508 "Control Michael and the win is yours." 494 00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:39,055 We did not have, as a unit, 495 00:30:39,138 --> 00:30:42,391 the confidence that we felt like we needed to beat Detroit. 496 00:30:43,267 --> 00:30:44,427 The game's over 497 00:30:44,477 --> 00:30:46,357 and the Pistons have won the world championship. 498 00:30:48,731 --> 00:30:50,691 They're going down in the record books 499 00:30:50,733 --> 00:30:54,237 as one of the greatest defensive teams ever in the history of this league. 500 00:30:54,987 --> 00:30:58,074 It seems that, in sports, there's always that one team... 501 00:30:58,658 --> 00:31:00,326 that you have to overcome, 502 00:31:00,910 --> 00:31:04,539 and you almost build your team to beat them, 503 00:31:04,622 --> 00:31:09,460 and unequivocally, for the Bulls, it was the Pistons. 504 00:31:19,846 --> 00:31:21,764 A friend of Dennis Rodman was worried enough 505 00:31:21,848 --> 00:31:26,269 about the Piston's whereabouts overnight that he called 911 to initiate a search. 506 00:31:26,352 --> 00:31:30,189 Police found Rodman at the Palace early this morning in Auburn Hills. 507 00:31:30,273 --> 00:31:33,401 Rodman had taken his legally registered rifle with him. 508 00:31:33,484 --> 00:31:35,945 His mood characterized as despondent. 509 00:31:36,946 --> 00:31:39,699 What happened? Why are people concerned? 510 00:31:39,782 --> 00:31:41,117 You get the right answer. 511 00:31:42,660 --> 00:31:43,660 I'm here. 512 00:31:44,287 --> 00:31:46,167 That's Dennis at 8:00 this morning, 513 00:31:46,247 --> 00:31:48,457 trying to assure reporters that he's fine, 514 00:31:48,541 --> 00:31:50,960 that he's not on the verge of an emotional breakdown, 515 00:31:51,043 --> 00:31:54,213 and that he did nothing out of the ordinary, at least for him. 516 00:31:54,297 --> 00:31:59,218 The report that we have is he took a gun, had a gun in his truck. 517 00:31:59,302 --> 00:32:01,971 Uh, have you heard that, can you confirm that? 518 00:32:02,054 --> 00:32:04,765 I've heard that, yeah. That's all I know. 519 00:32:04,849 --> 00:32:08,269 I had a gun in my hand, like, in the front seat. 520 00:32:09,061 --> 00:32:13,149 Luckily, I fell asleep, and the cops came and got me. 521 00:32:15,151 --> 00:32:18,738 I was at a lost place at the time. Just a lost place. 522 00:32:21,949 --> 00:32:26,913 That time in my life, I think that was both a wake-up call and a rescue call. 523 00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:31,542 Last night may have been the last time we see Dennis Rodman in a Pistons uniform. 524 00:32:31,626 --> 00:32:34,962 - Rodman used to be a Piston. - He's out of there. 525 00:32:35,546 --> 00:32:39,008 The Worm is now a Spur, traded for Sean Elliott and David Wood. 526 00:32:39,884 --> 00:32:41,761 Dennis goes to San Antonio, 527 00:32:41,844 --> 00:32:45,056 and then Demolition Man comes out, and he changes his hair color. 528 00:32:45,139 --> 00:32:46,766 That's me, that's Dennis Rodman. 529 00:32:48,225 --> 00:32:49,560 I'm not trying to please anybody. 530 00:32:50,144 --> 00:32:51,687 And Madonna goes, "He's cute." 531 00:32:52,188 --> 00:32:53,940 And they started seeing each other. 532 00:32:54,607 --> 00:32:56,692 Madonna explained to him, 533 00:32:56,776 --> 00:33:00,321 "You have to establish who you want to be in this life. 534 00:33:00,404 --> 00:33:03,074 Don't be who they tell you you should be." 535 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,038 He started realizing he can push to any boundary, 536 00:33:09,121 --> 00:33:11,165 and that's a freedom. 537 00:33:11,248 --> 00:33:15,086 People that write the things in the paper don't really know Dennis Rodman. 538 00:33:15,169 --> 00:33:18,756 They don't even talk to me so they have to write something that's crazy and stupid 539 00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:20,508 to make me look like an asshole. 540 00:33:20,591 --> 00:33:24,011 I just wanna do something that makes me feel like I'm free, 541 00:33:24,095 --> 00:33:26,055 that I can go do anything I want to do. 542 00:33:26,555 --> 00:33:28,724 What does it mean? The outfits, the tattoos, 543 00:33:28,808 --> 00:33:33,729 the sunglasses, the velvet hat, the rings, the... stuff. 544 00:33:34,397 --> 00:33:35,397 Why? 545 00:33:35,439 --> 00:33:37,692 I like doing what I'm doing. 546 00:33:37,775 --> 00:33:40,987 It makes me happy. It makes me feel like I'm a ten-year-old kid. 547 00:33:41,487 --> 00:33:44,448 Can I ask you to do one thing for me before we leave this interview? 548 00:33:44,949 --> 00:33:47,368 - Take off the hat. - Why does everybody say that to me? 549 00:33:47,451 --> 00:33:50,037 - Let me see what color it is. - It's no color. 550 00:33:50,121 --> 00:33:52,957 I've been pretty much lazy and just, "Hell with it." 551 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,750 I'm thinking about shaving it off. 552 00:33:57,461 --> 00:33:59,630 I wanted no part of Dennis. 553 00:33:59,714 --> 00:34:01,173 Didn't want anything to do with him. 554 00:34:01,257 --> 00:34:04,552 And, uh, Jimmy Stack, who was my assistant at that point, 555 00:34:04,635 --> 00:34:06,470 came to me, said, "Let's talk about Rodman." 556 00:34:06,554 --> 00:34:08,389 I said "No, I don't wanna talk about Rodman." 557 00:34:08,889 --> 00:34:11,308 And he said, "Jerry, I've done some homework." 558 00:34:11,392 --> 00:34:15,479 I really felt like I had a different perspective on Dennis. 559 00:34:15,563 --> 00:34:18,774 Why, Dennis Rodman, who already has a T... 560 00:34:18,858 --> 00:34:21,944 gets another one, and out he goes. 561 00:34:22,528 --> 00:34:25,865 Dennis was acting out in San Antonio. 562 00:34:27,825 --> 00:34:31,954 But I felt like the structure we had, with Michael and Scottie and the leadership, 563 00:34:32,538 --> 00:34:35,791 Dennis would respect those guys and play and thrive. 564 00:34:36,292 --> 00:34:38,669 If we had not had Michael and Scottie 565 00:34:38,753 --> 00:34:41,672 and the people in that locker room, we would've never taken Dennis. 566 00:34:41,756 --> 00:34:44,675 If Phil hadn't been the coach, I don't think we would've taken him. 567 00:34:44,759 --> 00:34:46,844 Because I knew that Phil could handle him. 568 00:34:47,845 --> 00:34:50,473 Do you remember your first meeting with Rodman? 569 00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:51,807 Oh, it was awful. 570 00:34:53,225 --> 00:34:55,227 I walk into Jerry Krause's house. 571 00:34:56,228 --> 00:35:00,107 He's sitting on the couch. He's got a pool boy hat over his eyes, 572 00:35:00,191 --> 00:35:02,735 he's got the rings in his nose and his mouth, 573 00:35:02,818 --> 00:35:06,280 and he doesn't stand up to meet me. So I said, "Stand up, Dennis. 574 00:35:06,363 --> 00:35:09,492 Take your hat off, shake hands. Let's go outside and talk." 575 00:35:09,575 --> 00:35:12,495 We had to break bread then, at the house. 576 00:35:12,578 --> 00:35:14,705 He said "Dennis, you wanna play for the Bulls?" 577 00:35:14,789 --> 00:35:17,750 I said, "I don't care. Whatever. What's up?" 578 00:35:17,833 --> 00:35:19,794 Last week, the Bulls announced the acquisition 579 00:35:19,877 --> 00:35:21,504 of a player many people consider 580 00:35:21,587 --> 00:35:24,173 the most controversial basketball star in the NBA. 581 00:35:24,882 --> 00:35:29,136 He is Dennis Rodman, one of the best rebounders in NBA history. 582 00:35:29,220 --> 00:35:32,681 Is it one of the shrewdest moves the Bulls have ever made or one of the dumbest? 583 00:35:32,765 --> 00:35:34,975 There was this visceral reaction to Rodman. 584 00:35:35,059 --> 00:35:38,604 Rodman was at the center of the most hated team 585 00:35:38,687 --> 00:35:40,022 in the history of Chicago. 586 00:35:40,106 --> 00:35:44,527 We all thought, "Well, there's no way they would ever accept him. 587 00:35:44,610 --> 00:35:47,238 Even if they signed him, they will never accept him." 588 00:35:47,321 --> 00:35:49,240 You know, and to their credit, 589 00:35:49,323 --> 00:35:52,243 Jordan and Pippen, especially, said, "He can help us win. 590 00:35:52,326 --> 00:35:54,328 We know how tough he is." 591 00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:02,312 How did Dennis fit in with the team when he first arrived? 592 00:36:02,336 --> 00:36:03,963 Like a hand in a glove. 593 00:36:04,964 --> 00:36:07,883 Dennis was a dominant defensive player, 594 00:36:08,467 --> 00:36:11,178 and what Dennis brought was exactly what we needed, 595 00:36:11,262 --> 00:36:14,515 somebody who gave us that edge on the front line. 596 00:36:25,317 --> 00:36:28,112 If he could do his job, then we're going to love him. 597 00:36:28,195 --> 00:36:31,657 Play basketball and win. That's it. 598 00:36:32,366 --> 00:36:33,742 That's what he did. 599 00:36:46,213 --> 00:36:48,257 Dennis was one of the smartest guys I played with. 600 00:36:48,757 --> 00:36:52,344 He understood defensive strategy, with all the rotations. 601 00:36:52,428 --> 00:36:54,930 He had no limits in terms of what he does. 602 00:36:55,014 --> 00:36:57,725 He could guard multiple players. 603 00:36:58,309 --> 00:37:01,896 He studied each guy. He knew players' strengths and weaknesses. 604 00:37:02,813 --> 00:37:04,607 Rodman with the interception... 605 00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:07,359 Dennis knows how to play his role well. 606 00:37:07,443 --> 00:37:11,780 He has a great understanding of what it takes to win. 607 00:37:12,865 --> 00:37:15,034 He's a huge reason for our success. 608 00:37:55,824 --> 00:37:57,701 You know I was just kidding. 609 00:37:57,785 --> 00:38:00,788 I know. You gave me a good article the other day. 610 00:38:00,871 --> 00:38:02,591 - I appreciate that. - Which one? 611 00:38:02,623 --> 00:38:04,750 You said, "Quit worrying about what he's gonna do 612 00:38:04,833 --> 00:38:07,544 and live for the present. Don't worry about next year. 613 00:38:07,628 --> 00:38:10,381 Leave him alone. Quit asking questions about what's happening." 614 00:38:10,464 --> 00:38:11,704 I'm sick of it, too. 615 00:38:11,757 --> 00:38:14,760 I'm tired of it, totally tired of it. I'mma stop talking to y'all. 616 00:38:14,843 --> 00:38:16,178 Just say, "Next question." 617 00:38:16,262 --> 00:38:18,931 Y'all guys don't do it anymore, but it's on the road. 618 00:38:19,014 --> 00:38:20,575 - That's what kills me. - Yeah. 619 00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:23,769 It's gotta be a little draining, every city, like, 620 00:38:23,852 --> 00:38:26,605 "Is it Michael's last game?" Everything that's going on with that. 621 00:38:26,689 --> 00:38:29,817 Is it wearing on you a little? Does it wear on you little bit? 622 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:32,027 Yeah, it gets old. Questions don't change 623 00:38:32,111 --> 00:38:34,321 and the answer is the same. 624 00:38:34,405 --> 00:38:37,116 Wouldn't it be nice if Bulls fans could enjoy this title run 625 00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:39,759 without worrying that it could be the final running of the Bulls? 626 00:38:39,827 --> 00:38:42,079 More questions in that vein for Michael Jordan today. 627 00:38:42,162 --> 00:38:44,164 You said that this is your last year. 628 00:38:44,248 --> 00:38:46,017 Is this your last outing in the Bay Area? 629 00:38:46,041 --> 00:38:47,310 Think it's your last season? 630 00:38:47,334 --> 00:38:49,254 Is it Michael's final run as a Bull? 631 00:38:49,295 --> 00:38:51,064 Think it's your last time in Atlanta? 632 00:38:51,088 --> 00:38:53,590 - Should he retire? - It's his decision. 633 00:38:53,674 --> 00:38:56,427 We're required to ask every game if you're gonna retire. 634 00:38:56,510 --> 00:38:57,845 You're gonna get the same answer. 635 00:38:57,928 --> 00:39:01,765 Although I may have the same answers, I practice them quite a bit. 636 00:39:01,849 --> 00:39:03,100 I don't know. I don't know. 637 00:39:03,183 --> 00:39:04,852 You never know. You never know. 638 00:39:04,935 --> 00:39:06,061 Beats me. 639 00:39:06,145 --> 00:39:09,273 This may be the last time, the last dance, whatever, but... 640 00:39:09,356 --> 00:39:11,692 I'm not focusing on that, I'm focusing on the moment. 641 00:39:11,775 --> 00:39:14,528 Enjoy the moment, you know, enjoy the game. 642 00:39:14,611 --> 00:39:17,448 And whenever... Whatever happens for this organization, 643 00:39:17,531 --> 00:39:18,949 at the end of the season, happens. 644 00:39:19,033 --> 00:39:20,302 What happens after that happens. 645 00:39:20,326 --> 00:39:25,456 I think people, well, the media basically, are trying to redirect, trying to change 646 00:39:25,539 --> 00:39:29,501 some kind of little emphasis within the question and see if my answers change, 647 00:39:29,585 --> 00:39:30,919 and my response won't change. 648 00:39:31,003 --> 00:39:32,963 So what about next year, Michael? 649 00:39:35,174 --> 00:39:38,844 You guys are... I love you guys. You're great. Excuse me. 650 00:39:51,899 --> 00:39:54,193 Okay, everybody, let's go meet the Sniff Brothers. 651 00:39:58,572 --> 00:40:00,824 These are the Sniff Brothers over here. 652 00:40:00,908 --> 00:40:04,286 First, there's Gus Sniff, CT Sniff, 653 00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:07,039 Calvin Sniff, Tom Sniff. 654 00:40:07,122 --> 00:40:09,082 - John Michael Sniff. - That's John Michael Sniff. 655 00:40:09,124 --> 00:40:09,958 George Sniff. 656 00:40:10,042 --> 00:40:12,669 The Sniff Brothers. They take care of Michael. 657 00:40:12,753 --> 00:40:16,548 Sniff Brothers are Michael's security guys. 658 00:40:17,132 --> 00:40:19,343 A sniff brother is actually a jock sniffer. 659 00:40:19,426 --> 00:40:22,596 So we used to say everybody was sniffing Michael's jocks. 660 00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:24,264 All those guys would always be around. 661 00:40:24,348 --> 00:40:28,769 He's the general sniff right here. Brigadier General Gus Sniff. 662 00:40:29,770 --> 00:40:31,897 Brigadier General. 663 00:40:34,149 --> 00:40:35,150 All right. 664 00:40:35,234 --> 00:40:37,569 Y'all get out of here. We got a heated debate. 665 00:40:37,653 --> 00:40:40,489 Heated debate about the president. Y'all gotta get out of here. 666 00:40:41,365 --> 00:40:43,409 He'll be running the country next week. 667 00:40:43,492 --> 00:40:45,035 Gus is gonna be running the country. 668 00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:47,162 If the president had Sniff Brothers, 669 00:40:47,246 --> 00:40:48,539 he wouldn't have this problem. 670 00:40:54,086 --> 00:40:55,462 That'll pay for your fine. 671 00:40:55,546 --> 00:40:58,215 Oh, yeah? It'll pay for my fine, see? 672 00:40:59,508 --> 00:41:00,551 See what I'm saying? 673 00:41:01,009 --> 00:41:04,555 All people that's in the business are crooked, too. I'm letting you know. 674 00:41:04,638 --> 00:41:08,142 That was Craig Sager gave me 20 bucks to pay for my fine. 675 00:41:08,725 --> 00:41:11,325 - Sounds like a bribe. Report him. - That's what I'm saying. 676 00:41:11,395 --> 00:41:14,523 He must want to interview me. He wants something. That's his problem. 677 00:41:17,317 --> 00:41:18,694 He's just saying hi. 678 00:41:21,196 --> 00:41:22,573 Thank you so much. 679 00:41:24,158 --> 00:41:25,358 They love you so much. 680 00:41:25,409 --> 00:41:27,828 the entertainment... Anyway, entertainment... 681 00:41:27,911 --> 00:41:28,996 Here you go, dude. 682 00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:32,291 Oh, my God! Thank you! 683 00:41:32,374 --> 00:41:33,459 Just a signature! 684 00:41:33,542 --> 00:41:36,545 Please, Mr. Rodman. Thank you so much. 685 00:41:38,172 --> 00:41:39,465 Y'all like Chicago? 686 00:41:39,548 --> 00:41:41,717 - Yes, it's awesome. - We love it. 687 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,344 - You need to come to Nashville sometime. - No, hell no. 688 00:41:44,428 --> 00:41:47,181 I've been to Nashville, brother, uh-uh. No. 689 00:42:02,404 --> 00:42:06,283 Two months ago, Scottie Pippen said he would never play for the Bulls again. 690 00:42:06,366 --> 00:42:10,454 But he softened his stance, saying he was looking forward to returning to the team. 691 00:42:10,537 --> 00:42:12,873 So the question became when would he come back? 692 00:42:13,957 --> 00:42:15,717 What made you change your mind? 693 00:42:16,543 --> 00:42:19,421 - Change my mind about coming to play? - Yeah. 694 00:42:20,005 --> 00:42:23,342 I just... I knew that it was probably going to come down 695 00:42:23,425 --> 00:42:27,304 to me and the team trying to play hardball, 696 00:42:27,387 --> 00:42:29,681 and I would lose in that situation 697 00:42:29,765 --> 00:42:33,560 because they would start to fine me, probably, so, uh... 698 00:42:35,854 --> 00:42:38,857 I wasn't going to let them benefit in that way. 699 00:42:39,733 --> 00:42:46,198 Bottom line is, uh, I was willing to accept a trade if they did it. 700 00:42:46,281 --> 00:42:48,659 And I knew they wasn't going to do it. 701 00:42:49,451 --> 00:42:51,912 After watching 35 games from the bench, 702 00:42:51,995 --> 00:42:55,791 the Bulls forward suited up at the United Center tonight and took the court. 703 00:42:55,874 --> 00:42:59,002 As for Dennis Rodman, check out the newest hairstyle. 704 00:42:59,086 --> 00:43:03,215 Word is that those are 33s in tribute to Pippen's return. 705 00:43:03,799 --> 00:43:06,260 Pippen ended up playing 31 minutes, 706 00:43:06,343 --> 00:43:09,680 scoring 14 points, grabbing four rebounds, dishing out five assists, 707 00:43:09,763 --> 00:43:13,308 and the Bulls have to feel uplifted by having Pippen back. 708 00:43:14,059 --> 00:43:15,727 When Scottie wasn't there, 709 00:43:15,811 --> 00:43:18,939 Dennis loved the fact that Michael needed him. 710 00:43:19,856 --> 00:43:20,983 Hey, Dennis... 711 00:43:22,442 --> 00:43:25,070 Let me know when Oakley's gonna set a back screen on me. 712 00:43:25,737 --> 00:43:27,590 - He set that screen right there so he... - Yeah. 713 00:43:27,614 --> 00:43:29,449 You want me to open up and just hold him? 714 00:43:30,367 --> 00:43:32,661 If you have to switch out, switch out. 715 00:43:32,744 --> 00:43:34,931 I can stop Houston right there, Oak's gotta turn around, 716 00:43:34,955 --> 00:43:37,595 - I can stop him as you catch up. - When the clock is running down, 717 00:43:37,666 --> 00:43:39,793 he's setting that screen, and veering over the top... 718 00:43:40,586 --> 00:43:42,337 switch in that situation. 719 00:43:42,879 --> 00:43:46,842 He was, "Hey, Michael, it's me and you. We got this." 720 00:43:47,843 --> 00:43:50,304 And when Scottie came back, that's when they lost him. 721 00:43:51,138 --> 00:43:54,391 When Scottie came back, we've got the Three Amigos again, 722 00:43:54,474 --> 00:43:57,394 and I'm pretty much the third wheel of the family. 723 00:43:58,270 --> 00:44:04,192 Rodman's descent became dramatic, his drinking, his partying, 724 00:44:04,276 --> 00:44:06,737 his connection with reality. 725 00:44:07,863 --> 00:44:09,448 People don't understand, 726 00:44:09,531 --> 00:44:12,701 it's just not basketball that we have to deal with on this team. 727 00:44:12,784 --> 00:44:19,458 It's the pressure of the bullshit, you know. I'll play the game for free, 728 00:44:19,541 --> 00:44:23,003 but you get paid for the bullshit after you leave the floor. 729 00:44:23,837 --> 00:44:26,590 The public pressure, the media pressure. 730 00:44:27,090 --> 00:44:30,010 Get out of my face, I'm done. I'm done. 731 00:44:31,595 --> 00:44:32,679 I'm not talking, man. 732 00:44:33,180 --> 00:44:34,890 No comment. How about that one? 733 00:44:39,686 --> 00:44:41,897 Basketball is simple, it's a simple game, 734 00:44:41,980 --> 00:44:45,025 but when you leave this confined zone... 735 00:44:46,526 --> 00:44:48,070 It's hard, it's hard. 736 00:44:49,196 --> 00:44:52,074 I never have to prove anything to people in this country. 737 00:44:52,157 --> 00:44:56,036 This business can kiss my ass. I don't give a damn what they think about me. 738 00:44:57,663 --> 00:45:00,624 Everybody understood Dennis' impact on the group, 739 00:45:00,707 --> 00:45:04,544 and we understood that he had, uh, different, uh... 740 00:45:05,295 --> 00:45:07,923 needs in his personal life than we did. 741 00:45:08,507 --> 00:45:10,507 I'll play you something from Michael. 742 00:45:15,847 --> 00:45:19,267 While Scottie was out, Dennis was a model citizen, 743 00:45:19,351 --> 00:45:23,522 to a point where it was driving him fucking insane. 744 00:45:23,605 --> 00:45:26,858 So, when Scottie came back, 745 00:45:26,942 --> 00:45:29,111 Dennis wanted to take a vacation. 746 00:45:30,153 --> 00:45:34,366 I come to practice. Phil calls me, says, "Dennis wants to tell you something." 747 00:45:35,409 --> 00:45:38,870 When Dennis wants to tell me something, I knew it's not something I want to hear. 748 00:45:38,954 --> 00:45:40,872 It sounds... 749 00:45:40,956 --> 00:45:44,251 So, Dennis says, "I need a vacation." 750 00:45:44,334 --> 00:45:47,212 And I look at Phil, "Phil, what do you mean, a vacation?" 751 00:45:47,295 --> 00:45:49,715 He says, "He needs a vacation, time off to let loose." 752 00:45:49,798 --> 00:45:52,217 I said, "Look, Phil, let me tell you something, man. 753 00:45:52,718 --> 00:45:55,178 If anybody need a fucking vacation, I need a vacation." 754 00:45:55,262 --> 00:45:58,432 He says... We look at Dennis, "Dennis, what are you gonna do?" 755 00:45:59,307 --> 00:46:01,101 He says, "Well, I need to go to Vegas." 756 00:46:04,312 --> 00:46:07,441 "Phil, you let this dude go to vacation, we're not going to see him. 757 00:46:07,524 --> 00:46:10,110 You let him go to Vegas, we definitely not going to see him." 758 00:46:10,902 --> 00:46:13,238 So, he looks at Dennis, he says, "Dennis, well, 759 00:46:13,321 --> 00:46:15,782 can your vacation be, like, 48 hours?" 760 00:46:16,324 --> 00:46:17,534 And Dennis is like, 761 00:46:17,617 --> 00:46:21,121 "I got no other choice, I take whatever you can give me, I'll take the 48 hours." 762 00:46:21,204 --> 00:46:24,166 "Forty-eight hours. You got 48 hours, Dennis." 763 00:46:24,249 --> 00:46:27,794 I'm looking at Phil, "You ain't gonna get that dude back in 48 hours. 764 00:46:27,878 --> 00:46:29,755 I don't care what you say. He's done. 765 00:46:29,838 --> 00:46:31,757 Okay. 48 hours." 766 00:46:32,841 --> 00:46:36,636 If he leaves that room, go straight to the airport... Boom! 767 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,930 They don't hear or see Dennis for 48 hours. 768 00:46:40,015 --> 00:46:42,058 I remember that. 769 00:46:42,142 --> 00:46:45,187 I went to fucking Vegas. 770 00:46:52,778 --> 00:46:57,908 Dennis was bizarre, but I think what made it work was 771 00:46:57,991 --> 00:47:00,952 Phil and Michael's understanding... 772 00:47:01,536 --> 00:47:04,372 that to get the most out of him on the court, 773 00:47:04,456 --> 00:47:06,166 you had to give him some rope. 774 00:47:06,708 --> 00:47:08,835 And they gave him a lot of rope.