1 00:00:18,022 --> 00:00:19,649 Mr. Miller? 2 00:00:21,150 --> 00:00:23,694 Is everyone okay in there? 3 00:00:25,738 --> 00:00:27,156 Agent Ford, FBI. 4 00:00:30,184 --> 00:00:31,244 Here, sir. 5 00:00:31,327 --> 00:00:33,913 We want to know what's going on. 6 00:00:34,705 --> 00:00:37,875 If you harm anyone, it will not end well for you! 7 00:00:37,959 --> 00:00:39,460 Special Agent Holden Ford. 8 00:00:41,170 --> 00:00:42,880 - Ninkovich. - Is he talking? 9 00:00:42,964 --> 00:00:44,298 Not making sense. Been briefed? 10 00:00:44,382 --> 00:00:46,259 On the way over. Five people still in there? 11 00:00:46,342 --> 00:00:49,095 A security guard, the secretary, three guys from the line. 12 00:00:52,014 --> 00:00:54,976 - Where is she? - Take it easy, Mr. Miller. 13 00:00:55,059 --> 00:00:56,727 I want my wife! 14 00:00:56,811 --> 00:00:59,480 Put the gun down, step away from Ms. Curtwell. 15 00:00:59,564 --> 00:01:04,026 - I have asked you... - We need to see that everyone is unharmed. 16 00:01:04,610 --> 00:01:05,686 You gonna shoot me? 17 00:01:05,987 --> 00:01:09,699 If you do not abide by our terms, and soon... 18 00:01:09,782 --> 00:01:11,284 You can't see me! 19 00:01:11,367 --> 00:01:14,579 I'm warning you, our patience is wearing thin. 20 00:01:14,662 --> 00:01:17,665 How can you shoot what you can't see? 21 00:01:17,748 --> 00:01:18,749 Mr. Miller! 22 00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:20,918 No, thank you. 23 00:01:21,002 --> 00:01:22,336 Hey, Cody. 24 00:01:23,671 --> 00:01:26,507 My name is Holden. I'd like to help you. 25 00:01:27,049 --> 00:01:29,677 - Tell me what's going on. - I gotta talk to my wife. 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,429 - All right. - She's the only one. 27 00:01:31,512 --> 00:01:32,763 I understand. 28 00:01:32,847 --> 00:01:35,558 For the moment, is there anything else we can get you? 29 00:01:35,641 --> 00:01:37,643 Get these fucking people away. 30 00:01:37,727 --> 00:01:38,744 Okay. 31 00:01:41,230 --> 00:01:44,233 Okay... 32 00:01:46,902 --> 00:01:48,946 If I can get them to back off, 33 00:01:49,488 --> 00:01:52,783 will you... relax with Ms. Curtwell? 34 00:01:53,701 --> 00:01:56,329 Give us some time to reach your wife. 35 00:01:59,165 --> 00:02:00,333 Okay. 36 00:02:00,416 --> 00:02:01,459 Thank you. 37 00:02:05,963 --> 00:02:08,507 Keep the snipers. Back out the perimeter. 38 00:02:08,591 --> 00:02:10,509 If he starts firing, we'll have to storm the place. 39 00:02:10,593 --> 00:02:12,678 They're making me nervous. Imagine what they're doing to him. 40 00:02:12,762 --> 00:02:15,222 He has no criminal history. He's clearly having an episode. 41 00:02:15,306 --> 00:02:17,642 We need to keep him calm and wear him down. 42 00:02:18,059 --> 00:02:19,560 Get rid of those reporters. 43 00:02:22,855 --> 00:02:24,565 All right, guys. Back it up! 44 00:02:24,649 --> 00:02:27,693 - All right. Let's go. Back it up. - Move back. 45 00:02:29,862 --> 00:02:30,863 How am I doing? 46 00:02:37,203 --> 00:02:39,372 - You see me? - Oh, God. 47 00:02:41,123 --> 00:02:42,875 Yes, I can see you! 48 00:02:44,335 --> 00:02:47,296 - What do you see? - I can see that you're naked. 49 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,465 I can see that you're cold. 50 00:02:59,433 --> 00:03:01,268 Is there a phone? Can we get him on the line? 51 00:03:01,352 --> 00:03:04,313 - He's got it off the hook. - That was his demand, talk to his wife? 52 00:03:04,397 --> 00:03:06,357 Took all day to find her. She's on her way. 53 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,692 - You're not bringing her. - I want her to calm him. 54 00:03:08,776 --> 00:03:10,444 Her presence might have the opposite effect. 55 00:03:14,198 --> 00:03:16,325 Hi, Mrs. Miller? Don't get out. 56 00:03:16,409 --> 00:03:19,870 I'm Holden Ford from the FBI. Do you understand the situation? 57 00:03:19,954 --> 00:03:23,374 - Cody's got some people in there? - What happened this morning? 58 00:03:23,457 --> 00:03:24,517 I don't know. 59 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:28,003 I tried to get him sectioned on Sunday, but I haven't seen him since. 60 00:03:28,087 --> 00:03:31,382 They told me he stole a shotgun, robbed a liquor store? 61 00:03:31,465 --> 00:03:32,758 Was he delusional? Violent? 62 00:03:32,842 --> 00:03:34,760 He's not violent. 63 00:03:34,844 --> 00:03:37,888 He's been saying that he's invisible for a while now. 64 00:03:37,972 --> 00:03:40,015 Truly invisible. He's been seeing a doctor. 65 00:03:40,099 --> 00:03:41,267 Did the doctor diagnose him? 66 00:03:41,892 --> 00:03:43,561 Cody wouldn't tell me. 67 00:03:43,644 --> 00:03:46,105 He's taking medication, but he might've stopped. 68 00:03:46,188 --> 00:03:48,482 - What kind of medication? - I'm not sure. 69 00:03:49,383 --> 00:03:50,443 Here's his doctor. 70 00:03:50,526 --> 00:03:52,278 You tried to get him sectioned? 71 00:03:52,361 --> 00:03:54,127 He kept talking to people that weren't there, 72 00:03:54,128 --> 00:03:55,531 saying they could see him. 73 00:03:56,407 --> 00:03:59,034 I told him I was gonna leave him if he didn't go to the hospital. 74 00:03:59,118 --> 00:04:01,579 - You gave him an ultimatum? - I'm sorry. 75 00:04:02,496 --> 00:04:04,832 - I feel awful. - This is not your fault. 76 00:04:05,291 --> 00:04:06,709 Has he hurt anyone? 77 00:04:06,792 --> 00:04:09,378 Not that we know about. I'm sending you along for now. 78 00:04:14,216 --> 00:04:15,760 Have someone call his doctor. 79 00:04:15,843 --> 00:04:17,803 Get his wife to tell him she won't leave him. 80 00:04:17,887 --> 00:04:20,973 We need more information. Let's see if we can get him on the line. 81 00:04:22,850 --> 00:04:24,101 Cody! 82 00:04:24,185 --> 00:04:26,187 Everything okay in there? 83 00:04:29,148 --> 00:04:31,108 I'd really like to know what's going on in there. 84 00:04:31,192 --> 00:04:33,068 I promise you, we can work this out. 85 00:04:40,910 --> 00:04:42,036 Where's my wife? 86 00:04:42,536 --> 00:04:46,248 It's a difficult situation. Taking a while to get her here. 87 00:04:46,332 --> 00:04:48,542 - She doesn't want to talk to me? - That's not it. 88 00:04:48,626 --> 00:04:51,253 She is very worried about you. 89 00:04:51,796 --> 00:04:54,215 - You talked to her? - On the phone. 90 00:04:55,257 --> 00:04:58,219 - Maybe you could talk to her on the phone. - No! 91 00:05:00,054 --> 00:05:01,639 She has to be here. 92 00:05:06,685 --> 00:05:10,231 - I understand your frustration. - What do you understand? 93 00:05:10,314 --> 00:05:13,984 Not being able to communicate with a trusted loved one. 94 00:05:15,236 --> 00:05:16,779 What do you want to say to her? 95 00:05:17,780 --> 00:05:18,989 Why would I tell you? 96 00:05:22,243 --> 00:05:23,744 Maybe I can help. 97 00:05:25,663 --> 00:05:26,747 I don't think so. 98 00:09:28,322 --> 00:09:29,823 - Thank you. - You're welcome. 99 00:09:40,834 --> 00:09:42,869 You followed procedure. You did your job. 100 00:09:42,870 --> 00:09:45,756 You did everything by the book. 101 00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:48,592 He took hostages. He knew there'd be consequences. 102 00:09:48,675 --> 00:09:50,677 - He thought he was invisible. - You're not his shrink. 103 00:09:50,761 --> 00:09:53,931 You're not responsible for diagnosing him. That's not your remit. 104 00:09:54,890 --> 00:09:58,060 These things happen in real time, and we are the last responders. 105 00:09:58,143 --> 00:10:01,688 If an operation's gonna go south, this is not the worst outcome. 106 00:10:01,772 --> 00:10:03,440 Stay focused on what we do. 107 00:10:03,524 --> 00:10:06,401 If I did everything by the book, it begs the question... 108 00:10:06,485 --> 00:10:08,164 This place is pretty much 109 00:10:08,165 --> 00:10:10,489 the benchmark for excellence in law enforcement. 110 00:10:11,698 --> 00:10:14,576 In the rest of the world, hostage negotiation's on its way out. 111 00:10:14,660 --> 00:10:17,621 You think the Israelis bothered to negotiate at Entebbe last year? 112 00:10:19,873 --> 00:10:22,342 You didn't lose one hostage or bystander. 113 00:10:22,343 --> 00:10:24,461 That's how we measure success. 114 00:10:26,463 --> 00:10:29,091 And your courses are a big hit in the summer. 115 00:10:29,174 --> 00:10:31,260 I actually think you should be teaching more. 116 00:10:31,343 --> 00:10:33,470 - You're putting me out to pasture. - No. 117 00:10:33,554 --> 00:10:35,556 I'm putting you to work where it really counts. 118 00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:37,015 Despite what happened. 119 00:10:37,099 --> 00:10:39,351 Because of what happened, Holden. 120 00:10:39,852 --> 00:10:40,894 It seasoned you. 121 00:10:45,107 --> 00:10:46,108 Thank you, sir... 122 00:10:47,109 --> 00:10:48,110 but I'd rather not. 123 00:10:48,193 --> 00:10:49,778 Well, this is awkward. 124 00:10:52,489 --> 00:10:54,700 I'd like you to sleep on it over the weekend... 125 00:10:56,326 --> 00:10:58,495 because you start full-time on Monday. 126 00:11:06,795 --> 00:11:11,008 This is how we find ourselves completely out of control. 127 00:11:12,217 --> 00:11:13,355 The fugitive has already killed 128 00:11:13,356 --> 00:11:15,721 a police officer that morning in Austin. 129 00:11:17,139 --> 00:11:19,558 He's taken two nine-millimeter rounds in the ass, 130 00:11:19,641 --> 00:11:21,476 grabbed a ten-year-old boy as a hostage, 131 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,395 and he's holed up in a suburban neighborhood 132 00:11:23,478 --> 00:11:25,606 crawling with women and small children. 133 00:11:26,773 --> 00:11:28,692 Now we must focus on one thing: 134 00:11:29,359 --> 00:11:31,069 de-escalation. 135 00:11:31,653 --> 00:11:35,324 San Antonio's chief of police arrives and starts using a bullhorn, 136 00:11:35,407 --> 00:11:38,744 which more than effectively intimidates our hostage-taker. 137 00:11:40,204 --> 00:11:43,248 Coming at anyone with an attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong" 138 00:11:43,332 --> 00:11:45,459 assumes that they're of rational mind. 139 00:11:47,628 --> 00:11:50,380 We must establish communication. 140 00:11:51,757 --> 00:11:54,885 Non-threatening communication. 141 00:11:55,761 --> 00:11:57,054 Ascertain demands, 142 00:11:57,137 --> 00:12:00,265 concede nothing, reject nothing, just listen. 143 00:12:01,808 --> 00:12:03,393 Listen to what he has to say. 144 00:12:05,395 --> 00:12:08,231 Try understanding him instead of trying to dominate him. 145 00:12:09,232 --> 00:12:10,734 Look for common ground. 146 00:12:10,817 --> 00:12:12,819 Find commonality. 147 00:12:13,362 --> 00:12:15,460 And if it feels like you're buying time, well... 148 00:12:15,461 --> 00:12:17,157 that's because you are. 149 00:12:17,699 --> 00:12:20,744 But it's the key to making any perp feel heard. 150 00:12:23,372 --> 00:12:24,873 Our goal is no body bags. 151 00:12:24,957 --> 00:12:27,334 That is the hostage negotiator win-win. 152 00:12:29,294 --> 00:12:31,880 And I'm in my office on Friday for anyone who has questions 153 00:12:31,964 --> 00:12:34,257 about the psychological strategies exam. 154 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:45,811 Wanton, indiscriminate murder. 155 00:12:45,894 --> 00:12:48,522 Seemingly random, serendipitous. 156 00:12:48,605 --> 00:12:50,273 Each one, extremely violent. 157 00:12:50,357 --> 00:12:52,985 No explanation. No apparent reason. 158 00:12:53,068 --> 00:12:54,611 They weren't sexually assaulted, 159 00:12:54,695 --> 00:12:56,655 there was no attempt to relieve them of valuables, 160 00:12:56,738 --> 00:12:58,365 they didn't know their assailant. 161 00:12:58,907 --> 00:13:02,202 Robert Violante and Stacy Moskowitz were making out in their car 162 00:13:02,285 --> 00:13:05,497 when David Berkowitz walked up and shot them both point-blank. 163 00:13:06,373 --> 00:13:08,709 Berkowitz killed six people over two summers, 164 00:13:08,792 --> 00:13:10,752 wounding seven more. Why? 165 00:13:12,004 --> 00:13:14,381 Because a dog told him to do it. 166 00:13:15,757 --> 00:13:16,775 Now... 167 00:13:18,510 --> 00:13:19,594 we can say that the guy's crazy, 168 00:13:19,595 --> 00:13:22,264 or that he's pretending that he's crazy. 169 00:13:22,681 --> 00:13:25,350 But if we're looking for a motive we can understand, 170 00:13:25,434 --> 00:13:27,310 we suddenly find there is none. 171 00:13:27,894 --> 00:13:29,104 It's a void. 172 00:13:29,187 --> 00:13:30,522 It's a black hole. 173 00:13:36,236 --> 00:13:40,991 Forty years ago, your FBI was founded hunting down John Dillinger, 174 00:13:41,450 --> 00:13:43,994 Baby Face Nelson, Machine Gun Kelly. 175 00:13:44,077 --> 00:13:46,747 Criminals who thumbed their noses at society, 176 00:13:46,830 --> 00:13:49,082 but were basically in it for personal gain. 177 00:13:50,042 --> 00:13:54,004 Now, we have extreme violence between strangers. 178 00:13:54,963 --> 00:13:56,506 Where do we go... 179 00:13:57,674 --> 00:14:00,010 when motive becomes elusive? 180 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:11,605 Excuse me, Professor Rathman? 181 00:14:13,857 --> 00:14:16,276 Holden Ford, Hostage Negotiation. 182 00:14:16,359 --> 00:14:17,569 Peter. Hi. 183 00:14:17,652 --> 00:14:18,799 I listened in on your class earlier. 184 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,009 What you were saying about crime today... 185 00:14:22,157 --> 00:14:23,867 I don't know, it really resonates. 186 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:26,036 - Gets attention. - Were you teaching this before Berkowitz? 187 00:14:26,119 --> 00:14:28,705 A version of it. The headlines kind of fell into my lap. 188 00:14:28,789 --> 00:14:29,873 What got you started? 189 00:14:30,207 --> 00:14:32,626 Starkweather. Whitman. Manson, of course. 190 00:14:32,709 --> 00:14:35,253 But Son of Sam kind of epitomizes now. 191 00:14:35,337 --> 00:14:37,957 It's as if... we don't know anymore 192 00:14:37,958 --> 00:14:39,424 what moves people to kill one another. 193 00:14:39,508 --> 00:14:42,260 Used to be you find a victim with 50 stab wounds, 194 00:14:42,344 --> 00:14:45,097 you look for the jilted lover, the ex-business partner. 195 00:14:45,347 --> 00:14:49,142 Now... it could be a random run-in with a disgruntled mailman. 196 00:14:49,226 --> 00:14:52,562 It's a different era. No more "Just the facts, ma'am." 197 00:14:52,646 --> 00:14:54,815 That's television. And reruns. 198 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:57,484 - Crime has changed. - Right. 199 00:14:58,902 --> 00:15:00,737 Do you... want to grab a beer? 200 00:15:02,197 --> 00:15:03,198 Yeah, okay. 201 00:15:04,157 --> 00:15:06,076 Look at the unprecedented events 202 00:15:06,159 --> 00:15:08,870 that have occurred in the past decade and a half. 203 00:15:08,954 --> 00:15:10,497 A president assassinated. 204 00:15:10,580 --> 00:15:13,250 Fighting an unpopular war that we didn't win. 205 00:15:13,333 --> 00:15:15,752 National Guard killing four college students. 206 00:15:15,836 --> 00:15:18,296 - You can hardly wrap your mind around it. - Watergate. 207 00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:21,925 Our democracy is vanishing into what? 208 00:15:22,008 --> 00:15:23,677 Is that what all this is about? 209 00:15:23,927 --> 00:15:25,929 Just a response to turmoil? 210 00:15:26,012 --> 00:15:29,099 The government used to be, symbolically, a parental institution. 211 00:15:29,182 --> 00:15:31,643 Now? It's a free-for-all. 212 00:15:31,726 --> 00:15:33,206 The world barely makes any sense, 213 00:15:33,207 --> 00:15:35,188 so it follows that crime doesn't either. 214 00:15:35,272 --> 00:15:36,781 You and I could theorize all night, 215 00:15:36,782 --> 00:15:38,733 but the truth is, I don't fucking know. 216 00:15:38,817 --> 00:15:41,027 - I don't know either. - No one does. 217 00:15:41,111 --> 00:15:42,696 But we're supposed to, right? 218 00:15:42,779 --> 00:15:44,214 Sure, but here's the troubling thing: 219 00:15:44,215 --> 00:15:47,242 no one's even asking the questions. 220 00:15:51,121 --> 00:15:52,138 We are. 221 00:15:52,706 --> 00:15:53,707 We are. 222 00:15:56,626 --> 00:15:57,919 Mm! 223 00:15:59,337 --> 00:16:02,591 Next time, let's discuss Lee Harvey Oswald as Oedipus. 224 00:16:04,468 --> 00:16:05,594 - Thank you. - Anytime. 225 00:16:17,898 --> 00:16:19,399 - Hey. - Hey. 226 00:16:19,816 --> 00:16:21,067 What are you looking at? 227 00:16:21,818 --> 00:16:22,944 I like your outfit. 228 00:16:23,487 --> 00:16:25,906 What is that, a jumpsuit? What do you call that? 229 00:16:25,989 --> 00:16:28,116 - This? I call it a jumpsuit. - Stylish. 230 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,702 What do you call that? You look like a Mormon. 231 00:16:31,161 --> 00:16:32,287 You look like my dad. 232 00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:33,413 Is he a Mormon? 233 00:16:33,497 --> 00:16:34,915 No, but he looks like one. 234 00:16:34,998 --> 00:16:36,208 So does mine. 235 00:16:36,291 --> 00:16:38,627 He bought me this suit, as a matter of fact. 236 00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:41,046 Did he buy you those nice shiny shoes? 237 00:16:41,463 --> 00:16:42,539 Yes. 238 00:16:42,923 --> 00:16:45,425 I have one brown pair and one black pair. 239 00:16:46,259 --> 00:16:48,595 I've got sneakers, but I had to buy those myself. 240 00:16:48,678 --> 00:16:51,848 What kind of grown-up lets their parents choose their clothes for them? 241 00:16:53,683 --> 00:16:56,686 - Are you coming on to me? - How do you like my approach? 242 00:17:02,359 --> 00:17:03,985 You having a good time? 243 00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:05,737 - I will be. - Huh! 244 00:17:05,820 --> 00:17:07,030 It's my birthday today. 245 00:17:07,113 --> 00:17:09,366 Happy birthday. How old are you? 246 00:17:09,449 --> 00:17:12,202 - Twenty-four. - You don't look old enough to be in here. 247 00:17:12,285 --> 00:17:14,538 - What are you, a narc? - FBI, actually. 248 00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:17,791 Special Agent Holden Ford. 249 00:17:17,874 --> 00:17:19,209 Wow. 250 00:17:21,002 --> 00:17:23,046 - Can you tell? - Everybody can tell. 251 00:17:23,430 --> 00:17:24,506 You got a gun? 252 00:17:24,589 --> 00:17:26,800 I have one, but I'm not gonna show it to you. 253 00:17:26,883 --> 00:17:27,901 Nuts. 254 00:17:28,635 --> 00:17:31,179 I'm a teacher. Right up the road at Quantico. 255 00:17:31,263 --> 00:17:32,389 What do you teach? 256 00:17:33,265 --> 00:17:36,268 Hostage negotiation, such as it is. 257 00:17:36,351 --> 00:17:39,187 - Holy cow. - You really think I look like a narc? 258 00:17:39,271 --> 00:17:41,439 - Are you kidding? - I don't see it. 259 00:17:41,523 --> 00:17:43,233 You stick out like a sore thumb. 260 00:17:44,651 --> 00:17:48,405 Well, I'm not here to... infiltrate the Black Panthers. 261 00:17:48,738 --> 00:17:52,409 Those guys are hardly Black Panthers. They're engineering students. 262 00:17:52,867 --> 00:17:54,327 You should go talk to them. 263 00:17:54,411 --> 00:17:57,372 I'm sure the FBI's in need of some great-looking black dudes. 264 00:17:57,455 --> 00:18:00,625 - You've got the wrong idea about me. - You gonna book me? 265 00:18:00,709 --> 00:18:01,876 Maybe. 266 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,003 Handcuffs? 267 00:18:08,174 --> 00:18:10,510 I'm here to see this really cool band from Detroit. 268 00:18:11,052 --> 00:18:12,429 You ever been to Detroit? 269 00:18:13,221 --> 00:18:14,764 Yes, actually. I was a... 270 00:18:18,435 --> 00:18:20,895 I was a brick agent there for a couple of years. 271 00:18:21,313 --> 00:18:24,649 I can't believe they're here. They used to play PJ's in Corktown. 272 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,818 - You know Corktown? - Sure. 273 00:18:26,901 --> 00:18:29,362 - It looked like a furniture store. - They always sold liquor. 274 00:18:29,446 --> 00:18:30,939 The whole furniture thing was just a front 275 00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:32,824 that started during Prohibition. 276 00:18:32,907 --> 00:18:34,326 Where are you really from? 277 00:18:34,868 --> 00:18:36,536 Everywhere. 278 00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:38,288 But the Midwest, right? 279 00:18:38,371 --> 00:18:41,333 I grew up in the Midwest, but I was born in Brooklyn. 280 00:18:41,416 --> 00:18:43,793 You do not seem like a guy from New York. 281 00:18:44,878 --> 00:18:47,047 You don't seem like a girl from Corktown. 282 00:18:50,133 --> 00:18:51,384 Buy you a drink? 283 00:21:36,841 --> 00:21:39,052 - What's your name? - Debbie. 284 00:21:42,388 --> 00:21:44,808 - You want some pot? - Is that a trick question? 285 00:21:44,891 --> 00:21:45,892 Come on. 286 00:21:46,267 --> 00:21:48,394 Are you serious? No, that's completely inappropriate. 287 00:21:48,478 --> 00:21:50,230 Come on, it's my birthday. 288 00:21:50,313 --> 00:21:52,816 Oh, Jesus, you're not gonna drink and drive, are you? 289 00:21:52,899 --> 00:21:54,359 You've been plying me with booze. 290 00:21:54,442 --> 00:21:56,736 Don't you think that's kind of a mixed message? 291 00:22:01,074 --> 00:22:02,091 You coming? 292 00:22:20,009 --> 00:22:23,388 So what does a brick agent get up to in Detroit? 293 00:22:23,888 --> 00:22:25,765 Mostly corralling Army deserters. 294 00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:29,102 Guys AWOL from Vietnam trying to get to Canada. 295 00:22:30,395 --> 00:22:31,604 Too scared to go back. 296 00:22:32,272 --> 00:22:34,607 Young guys. Same age I was. 297 00:22:35,108 --> 00:22:36,693 So you were a snitch? 298 00:22:38,945 --> 00:22:40,947 There's worse things than being a snitch. 299 00:22:44,033 --> 00:22:46,619 Maybe this'll loosen you up. 300 00:22:50,248 --> 00:22:51,874 God, you are making me nervous. 301 00:22:52,709 --> 00:22:54,294 You are such a goody-goody. 302 00:22:55,879 --> 00:22:57,714 What are you, some kind of honey trap? 303 00:22:58,214 --> 00:23:00,258 I've been warned to watch out for women like you. 304 00:23:02,010 --> 00:23:03,219 You mean normal ones? 305 00:23:10,893 --> 00:23:13,479 So just put your mouth over the hole... 306 00:23:16,316 --> 00:23:17,942 Okay. 307 00:23:21,946 --> 00:23:23,406 And inhale. 308 00:23:47,180 --> 00:23:49,140 I don't want to talk to somebody trying to calm me. 309 00:23:49,223 --> 00:23:50,975 - Get somebody in charge. - I am in charge! 310 00:23:51,059 --> 00:23:53,571 I don't want to talk to some flunky pig trying to calm me. 311 00:23:53,572 --> 00:23:54,854 What's he doing? 312 00:23:54,937 --> 00:23:57,065 - Will you get back over there? - What are they there for? 313 00:23:57,148 --> 00:23:59,776 Will you get the fuck back? Get back there, will ya? 314 00:23:59,859 --> 00:24:01,194 - Look at him! - Get over there! 315 00:24:01,277 --> 00:24:03,905 - Go back there, man! - Get over there, will ya? 316 00:24:03,988 --> 00:24:06,949 He wants to kill me so bad, he can taste it! All right? 317 00:24:07,033 --> 00:24:09,661 Attica! Attica! Attica! 318 00:24:10,703 --> 00:24:13,873 Attica! Attica! 319 00:24:13,956 --> 00:24:17,001 Attica! Attica! Attica! 320 00:24:17,085 --> 00:24:20,713 I was so confused, I was doing insane things. 321 00:24:22,256 --> 00:24:23,675 What sort of things, Leon? 322 00:24:28,596 --> 00:24:29,722 After the wedding... 323 00:24:31,057 --> 00:24:33,476 I ran off for ten days to Atlantic City. 324 00:24:34,977 --> 00:24:36,521 Sonny was frantic. 325 00:24:37,271 --> 00:24:38,564 He knew I'd been drinking, 326 00:24:38,648 --> 00:24:40,983 he didn't know where I was, who I was with. 327 00:24:42,568 --> 00:24:45,321 Well, I couldn't explain the things I did. 328 00:24:46,239 --> 00:24:47,865 So I went to a psychiatrist... 329 00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:49,659 who told me... 330 00:24:50,785 --> 00:24:54,247 that I was a woman trapped in a man's body. 331 00:25:01,421 --> 00:25:03,673 So they were both homosexuals, 332 00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:05,007 but he was married, 333 00:25:05,091 --> 00:25:08,803 and his boyfriend wanted to become a woman, which is confusing. 334 00:25:08,886 --> 00:25:11,305 - You really gotta get out more, Holden. - It was mixed up. 335 00:25:11,389 --> 00:25:14,016 - You didn't like it? - No, I really liked it. 336 00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:16,769 It was just so... sad. 337 00:25:16,853 --> 00:25:20,314 He was obviously very disturbed, but somehow I liked him. 338 00:25:20,398 --> 00:25:22,608 - Yeah, you have empathy. - Yeah. 339 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,444 Empathy. 340 00:25:24,986 --> 00:25:27,780 I really liked the dialogue. It was just very real. 341 00:25:27,864 --> 00:25:29,157 When I started at the Academy, 342 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,118 they would send women out of the room if there was any of that talk. 343 00:25:32,201 --> 00:25:34,454 They called it "deviant terminology." 344 00:25:34,537 --> 00:25:36,789 We even had a list of words we had to memorize. 345 00:25:36,873 --> 00:25:38,583 Really? Which words? 346 00:25:39,959 --> 00:25:41,002 You know... 347 00:25:41,085 --> 00:25:44,464 fuck, shit, pussy... blow job. 348 00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:47,583 Oh, fuck. 349 00:25:48,009 --> 00:25:49,026 Shit. 350 00:25:51,637 --> 00:25:53,055 Finger my pussy. 351 00:25:54,891 --> 00:25:57,101 Finger my pussy, I'll give you a blow job. 352 00:26:00,855 --> 00:26:02,815 All the bad words used in a sentence. 353 00:26:11,365 --> 00:26:13,367 It's classic he said-she said. 354 00:26:13,451 --> 00:26:15,434 He says she hit her head on the bedpost 355 00:26:15,435 --> 00:26:17,455 having consensual sexual intercourse. 356 00:26:17,538 --> 00:26:18,790 She says he knocked her out 357 00:26:18,873 --> 00:26:21,125 and dragged her into this motel room to rape her. 358 00:26:21,209 --> 00:26:23,488 We know she didn't hit her head on that bedpost 359 00:26:23,489 --> 00:26:25,171 because we've measured. 360 00:26:25,254 --> 00:26:27,048 Where do you propose you would go? 361 00:26:27,131 --> 00:26:29,050 University of Virginia in Charlottesville. 362 00:26:29,133 --> 00:26:30,134 Studying what? 363 00:26:30,218 --> 00:26:33,679 Contemporary Applied Criminal Psychology. Ratchet things up a notch. 364 00:26:33,763 --> 00:26:35,765 What exactly is it you think you're missing out on? 365 00:26:35,848 --> 00:26:37,683 We need to know the current academic thinking. 366 00:26:37,767 --> 00:26:39,727 No, you don't want to rely on academics, Holden. 367 00:26:39,811 --> 00:26:42,230 I'm not saying rely, just get updated. 368 00:26:42,313 --> 00:26:43,648 We just got updated. 369 00:26:43,731 --> 00:26:46,984 It's all in the library. 1972, everything was new. 370 00:26:47,068 --> 00:26:48,778 That was five years ago. 371 00:26:49,946 --> 00:26:51,280 What's the thinking now? 372 00:26:51,364 --> 00:26:52,573 Okay, look. 373 00:26:53,533 --> 00:26:56,077 There have been some fine psychological studies over the years, 374 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,705 but these are people who don't understand the criminal mind. 375 00:26:59,789 --> 00:27:01,601 They understand their corner of the world, 376 00:27:01,602 --> 00:27:03,126 which is a very small corner. 377 00:27:03,209 --> 00:27:05,545 Well, they must know something. 378 00:27:10,299 --> 00:27:11,759 I'm going to level with you. 379 00:27:13,052 --> 00:27:16,389 I'm going to tell you something I really don't want you to repeat. 380 00:27:17,098 --> 00:27:22,186 As far as the Bureau is concerned, psychology is for backroom boys. 381 00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:25,481 You understand what I'm trying to say? 382 00:27:27,275 --> 00:27:28,985 No. What's a "backroom boy"? 383 00:27:30,778 --> 00:27:32,321 It's just frowned upon. 384 00:27:34,657 --> 00:27:36,742 We should be using every resource we can. 385 00:27:38,327 --> 00:27:39,735 Talking to the smartest people we find 386 00:27:39,736 --> 00:27:41,831 from the broadest possible spectrum. 387 00:27:41,914 --> 00:27:44,375 - And we do. - Otherwise, it's like the military. 388 00:27:44,458 --> 00:27:46,961 - Hey, we recruited Elvis. - So did the military. 389 00:27:47,044 --> 00:27:48,796 The King doesn't do it for you? 390 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,965 Hoover died over five years ago, 391 00:27:51,048 --> 00:27:54,886 and we're still recruiting accountants and lawyers like it's 1946. 392 00:27:54,969 --> 00:27:57,138 Actually, recruitment has tapered off. 393 00:27:57,221 --> 00:28:00,266 - We can't get accountants. - Well, then we're in trouble. 394 00:28:01,058 --> 00:28:03,352 All right. I'll scratch your back 395 00:28:03,436 --> 00:28:05,646 and recommend funding for you to audit a few classes, 396 00:28:05,730 --> 00:28:09,025 but you will be expected to use the opportunity for recruitment. 397 00:28:09,942 --> 00:28:11,903 Speakers, lecturers, great minds. 398 00:28:11,986 --> 00:28:15,531 - Are you sure you want me doing that? - You're smart, you're idealistic... 399 00:28:15,740 --> 00:28:16,908 more than a little sensitive. 400 00:28:17,491 --> 00:28:18,659 They're gonna love you. 401 00:28:42,808 --> 00:28:45,311 - Hare Krishna. - Hare Krishna. 402 00:28:46,562 --> 00:28:49,315 - Hare Krishna. - And then, in 1872, 403 00:28:49,398 --> 00:28:54,278 Italian physician Cesare Lombroso drags us out of the Dark Ages 404 00:28:54,362 --> 00:28:57,073 and launches the scientific era in criminology 405 00:28:57,740 --> 00:29:01,077 by differentiating five criminal classes: 406 00:29:02,995 --> 00:29:04,288 the born criminal, 407 00:29:05,414 --> 00:29:06,916 insane criminal, 408 00:29:07,792 --> 00:29:09,418 criminal by passion, 409 00:29:10,461 --> 00:29:11,879 habitual criminal, 410 00:29:12,255 --> 00:29:14,924 and the occasional criminal. 411 00:29:15,007 --> 00:29:17,635 In other words, there are those that are born that way 412 00:29:18,135 --> 00:29:20,429 and those who become that way. 413 00:29:20,513 --> 00:29:22,431 And in 1965, there's this other breakthrough. 414 00:29:22,515 --> 00:29:24,350 This criminal psychology research project 415 00:29:24,433 --> 00:29:28,271 at Bellevue psychiatric hospital in New York couched it like this: 416 00:29:28,354 --> 00:29:31,274 personality and character 417 00:29:31,357 --> 00:29:35,695 far outweigh the presence of psychotic or defective diagnoses. 418 00:29:35,778 --> 00:29:38,531 In other words, by extrapolation... 419 00:29:39,365 --> 00:29:40,825 are criminals born... 420 00:29:42,326 --> 00:29:44,120 or are they formed? 421 00:30:04,974 --> 00:30:06,142 Do you mind if I sit? 422 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:07,635 You're sitting. 423 00:30:11,647 --> 00:30:13,774 You know, I wasn't aware of that project at Bellevue. 424 00:30:13,858 --> 00:30:15,693 Well, you should be. 425 00:30:16,694 --> 00:30:19,405 Where I come from, criminals are always born that way. 426 00:30:19,488 --> 00:30:21,324 Some people will never stop believing that. 427 00:30:22,325 --> 00:30:23,909 - It's too easy. - It lets us off the hook. 428 00:30:23,993 --> 00:30:25,870 Well, essentially we're a puritan nation. 429 00:30:25,953 --> 00:30:29,206 We blame all our problems on a minority of bad apples. 430 00:30:29,290 --> 00:30:31,709 What's your name again? I'm sorry. Is it Leon? 431 00:30:31,792 --> 00:30:32,952 Buchanan. 432 00:30:33,594 --> 00:30:34,670 Leo. 433 00:30:34,754 --> 00:30:35,788 Holden. 434 00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:38,507 - Holden Ford. - I know who you are. 435 00:30:39,467 --> 00:30:40,468 Everybody does. 436 00:30:40,551 --> 00:30:41,610 Yeah. 437 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,722 I've noticed some of the looks I've been getting. 438 00:30:44,805 --> 00:30:47,683 Funny looks isn't a federal offense... yet. 439 00:30:48,351 --> 00:30:49,852 Yeah, they're just curious. 440 00:30:50,311 --> 00:30:51,479 Well, I'm not a spy. 441 00:30:51,896 --> 00:30:53,230 This isn't some kind of cover. 442 00:30:53,314 --> 00:30:57,109 Good. Because that... would have been a really pathetic cover. 443 00:30:58,069 --> 00:31:01,238 I'm actually an instructor too, but I'm just here to learn. 444 00:31:01,322 --> 00:31:04,200 And I'm here to talk to people like you. 445 00:31:04,283 --> 00:31:05,701 What do you want to talk about? 446 00:31:05,785 --> 00:31:08,162 I want to start a dialogue with you. 447 00:31:08,245 --> 00:31:09,413 Would that be okay? 448 00:31:10,206 --> 00:31:11,582 A dialogue about what? 449 00:31:12,124 --> 00:31:13,676 I'm an instructor in the Bureau's training 450 00:31:13,677 --> 00:31:15,878 and recruitment program out of Quantico. 451 00:31:15,961 --> 00:31:18,798 And we really need to hear from people like you. 452 00:31:18,881 --> 00:31:22,968 I'm sorry, are you trying to recruit me? 453 00:31:23,052 --> 00:31:25,721 Just to hear your perspectives and your insights. 454 00:31:28,099 --> 00:31:30,726 I understand... 455 00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:33,813 perfectly. 456 00:31:36,315 --> 00:31:39,735 I'm sorry. You call yourself a professor of criminal psychology. 457 00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:43,280 But you won't even talk to the educational arm of the FBI? 458 00:31:43,364 --> 00:31:44,423 It's just... 459 00:31:45,241 --> 00:31:46,617 a sign of the times, man. 460 00:31:48,702 --> 00:31:51,455 - Lost your appetite? - Do these fucking hippies 461 00:31:51,539 --> 00:31:53,140 seriously believe that they're worthy 462 00:31:53,141 --> 00:31:55,251 of an enormously costly, labor-intensive 463 00:31:55,334 --> 00:31:57,169 federal surveillance operation? 464 00:31:57,253 --> 00:31:59,296 It sounds like the contempt is mutual. 465 00:31:59,672 --> 00:32:00,887 Don't you think that the traditional 466 00:32:00,888 --> 00:32:03,384 counterculture-law enforcement enmity 467 00:32:03,467 --> 00:32:05,094 is a little old hat by now? 468 00:32:05,594 --> 00:32:08,764 They'll never forgive you for putting a tail on John and Yoko. 469 00:32:09,598 --> 00:32:11,460 Frankly, I'm surprised to have aroused 470 00:32:11,461 --> 00:32:13,061 such a degree of fucking neuroses 471 00:32:13,144 --> 00:32:15,187 amongst supposedly intelligent people. 472 00:32:15,271 --> 00:32:17,565 Please, they're flattering themselves. 473 00:32:20,151 --> 00:32:22,027 They think you're wearing a wire. 474 00:32:25,489 --> 00:32:27,283 There. You're one of us now. 475 00:32:27,366 --> 00:32:31,120 Okay, everything's all right. Come on. Right. Yeah. Okay. 476 00:32:33,247 --> 00:32:35,124 - Come on out, Sonny. - They're too close! 477 00:32:35,207 --> 00:32:37,835 Come on, get back! What the fuck are you doing? Get back! 478 00:32:37,918 --> 00:32:38,938 Get them back. 479 00:32:38,961 --> 00:32:40,838 - Get back, okay? - Come here. 480 00:32:41,547 --> 00:32:42,840 Come on out. 481 00:32:42,923 --> 00:32:45,050 Now take a look at this. Come on. 482 00:32:45,593 --> 00:32:47,344 Hey, look. Look up here. Look. 483 00:32:48,596 --> 00:32:49,655 Look. 484 00:32:50,556 --> 00:32:52,141 Look over here. Huh? 485 00:32:56,937 --> 00:32:59,398 Over there. Look. You got everything here, okay? 486 00:33:09,533 --> 00:33:12,077 Okay. So what are they doing wrong? 487 00:33:12,661 --> 00:33:15,748 - They're making him mad. - They're making him scared. 488 00:33:16,207 --> 00:33:19,960 - So? - We do not want him scared. 489 00:33:20,044 --> 00:33:22,630 We want him calm. 490 00:33:28,844 --> 00:33:30,199 Let me call and see what they say. 491 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,890 I'll talk to them and ask, all right? 492 00:33:32,973 --> 00:33:35,017 Then we'll see. Anything else I can give you? 493 00:33:39,063 --> 00:33:41,482 Yeah, I want you to bring my wife down here. 494 00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:43,776 Okay, what do you give us? 495 00:33:44,026 --> 00:33:45,027 What do you want? 496 00:33:47,363 --> 00:33:51,951 The guy is robbing a bank to pay for a sex change for his boyfriend. 497 00:33:52,034 --> 00:33:54,370 He wants a helicopter with a piano. 498 00:33:54,912 --> 00:33:58,457 But more than anything, he wants to talk to his wife. 499 00:34:00,251 --> 00:34:02,670 - Complicated, right? - Yeah. 500 00:34:03,087 --> 00:34:04,421 Trust me on this. 501 00:34:05,256 --> 00:34:08,717 Always expect complicated. 502 00:34:08,801 --> 00:34:10,427 Okay, I need you to concentrate. 503 00:34:10,511 --> 00:34:13,889 Think of an opening salvo, then think where it could lead. 504 00:34:14,557 --> 00:34:15,891 No right or wrong answers, 505 00:34:15,975 --> 00:34:18,894 just use your imagination and see where it takes you. 506 00:34:19,353 --> 00:34:21,146 Start whenever you like. Go ahead. 507 00:34:24,024 --> 00:34:26,902 All right. I'm asking you to put the gun down, Mike. 508 00:34:26,986 --> 00:34:28,862 No way. Kiss my black ass, Mark. 509 00:34:28,946 --> 00:34:30,239 Wait, what? 510 00:34:30,781 --> 00:34:33,742 For the purpose of this exercise, I'm imagining I'm Negro. 511 00:34:35,452 --> 00:34:37,507 That's good. That's fine. Keep it going. 512 00:34:37,508 --> 00:34:39,290 Just whatever comes into your head. 513 00:34:40,416 --> 00:34:41,417 Okay. 514 00:34:42,084 --> 00:34:44,086 Then fuck you! I asked you to put that gun down. 515 00:34:44,628 --> 00:34:46,547 No, fuck you, you dumb cracker motherfucker. 516 00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:48,299 Wait, wait a minute. What is all that? 517 00:34:48,382 --> 00:34:49,508 It's jive talk. 518 00:34:49,592 --> 00:34:51,844 We don't need to get into that. Forget vernacular. 519 00:34:51,927 --> 00:34:54,305 In real life, people just press their demands. 520 00:34:54,388 --> 00:34:55,406 All right? 521 00:34:56,390 --> 00:34:57,641 Um... 522 00:34:58,767 --> 00:35:01,186 Uh... put the gun down, Steve. 523 00:35:01,770 --> 00:35:04,481 We brought your children to see you. 524 00:35:04,565 --> 00:35:05,604 You what? 525 00:35:05,608 --> 00:35:10,613 Oh, my God. I lost custody. I haven't seen my children in years. 526 00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:12,856 Okay, good. 527 00:35:13,699 --> 00:35:15,443 Important not to talk to a divorced man 528 00:35:15,444 --> 00:35:17,620 about his children. Different tactic. 529 00:35:20,289 --> 00:35:23,459 All right, I asked nicely. Now put the fucking gun down. 530 00:35:23,542 --> 00:35:25,461 - Why don't you make me, faggot? - What? 531 00:35:25,919 --> 00:35:27,254 I'm no faggot, motherfucker! 532 00:35:27,338 --> 00:35:29,715 Okay, let's dial it back a little. 533 00:35:29,798 --> 00:35:31,800 Excuse me. What is the point of this? 534 00:35:31,884 --> 00:35:33,135 Great question. 535 00:35:33,218 --> 00:35:35,804 Psychologically preparing you for reality. 536 00:35:35,888 --> 00:35:38,265 And the reality is, you have to talk to them. 537 00:35:38,349 --> 00:35:41,018 Somebody demands the impossible, you can't just shoot him. 538 00:35:41,101 --> 00:35:42,728 Then why have so much firearms training? 539 00:35:42,811 --> 00:35:45,814 Well, because that is a tactical response for when all else fails. 540 00:35:45,898 --> 00:35:48,025 But if local law enforcement can't shut something down, 541 00:35:48,108 --> 00:35:50,611 then it has required a tactical response. 542 00:35:50,694 --> 00:35:53,113 Okay, but wouldn't you like to try something different? 543 00:35:53,322 --> 00:35:55,991 Or would you rather use firearms all the time? 544 00:35:57,576 --> 00:35:59,995 - I'd kind of rather use firearms. - Why? 545 00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:02,639 Seems safer? 546 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,588 Holden, I enjoyed that immensely. What do you call that? 547 00:36:09,672 --> 00:36:12,591 It's just role-playing in a simulated hostage situation. 548 00:36:12,675 --> 00:36:14,218 - Stimulated? - Simulated. 549 00:36:14,301 --> 00:36:16,595 All that profanity, is that an academic thing? 550 00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:19,139 They're improvising. They're learning to create a dialogue. 551 00:36:19,223 --> 00:36:21,225 How is all that cursing creating a dialogue? 552 00:36:21,308 --> 00:36:22,768 It's not really about the cursing. 553 00:36:22,851 --> 00:36:25,938 I'm sure it's all quite modern and fashionable in academic circles, 554 00:36:26,021 --> 00:36:28,148 but it seems very theatrical to me. 555 00:36:28,232 --> 00:36:30,109 Well, in criminal psych, role-playing exercises 556 00:36:30,192 --> 00:36:32,903 are considered a valuable tool, with or without the cursing. 557 00:36:32,986 --> 00:36:35,698 I think we have enough exercises here at the Academy. 558 00:36:36,198 --> 00:36:38,117 If you're going to start implementing new ones, 559 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,160 talk to somebody in the Behavioral Science Unit. 560 00:36:40,161 --> 00:36:41,161 They can help? 561 00:36:41,161 --> 00:36:44,331 They can go over the soundness of the psychology. That's their thing. 562 00:36:44,415 --> 00:36:45,791 Okay, good idea. 563 00:36:45,874 --> 00:36:47,960 - Why don't I set that up? - Okay. 564 00:36:48,043 --> 00:36:49,586 Thank you, yes. 565 00:37:06,270 --> 00:37:08,397 Holden, right? Holden Ford? 566 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:09,480 Hi. 567 00:37:09,523 --> 00:37:11,400 Bill Tench. Behavioral Science. 568 00:37:11,483 --> 00:37:13,152 Oh, great to meet you. 569 00:37:13,736 --> 00:37:16,488 - You had a beer with Peter Rathman? - Interesting guy. 570 00:37:16,989 --> 00:37:19,742 I was kind of disturbed by what he said. 571 00:37:19,825 --> 00:37:20,843 You were, huh? 572 00:37:21,869 --> 00:37:24,455 - Can we sit? - Yes. Please. 573 00:37:30,711 --> 00:37:33,213 - Smoke? - Oh, uh... 574 00:37:33,297 --> 00:37:34,757 I don't smoke when I eat. 575 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,091 Want to go outside? 576 00:37:37,718 --> 00:37:39,553 I don't smoke when I don't eat either. 577 00:37:43,849 --> 00:37:46,143 So did Shepard talk to you about my thing? 578 00:37:46,393 --> 00:37:47,436 He did his best. 579 00:37:48,437 --> 00:37:49,438 What does that mean? 580 00:37:50,147 --> 00:37:52,691 He can be pretty old school. 581 00:37:54,234 --> 00:37:57,696 I call this place "the country club," because, you know, 582 00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:59,698 it can be a little starchy sometimes. 583 00:38:00,574 --> 00:38:01,825 I hear that. 584 00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:05,245 You went back to college, right? 585 00:38:07,873 --> 00:38:09,833 How old are you, 26, 27? 586 00:38:09,917 --> 00:38:10,976 Twenty-nine. 587 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,045 That's interesting. 588 00:38:13,545 --> 00:38:15,339 Lot of guys your age don't want to go back to school 589 00:38:15,422 --> 00:38:18,008 because they feel it undermines their authority. 590 00:38:18,634 --> 00:38:21,386 I was hoping it would give me some authority. 591 00:38:22,554 --> 00:38:24,181 He's got you doing recruitment, right? 592 00:38:24,264 --> 00:38:28,727 Yeah, well, I'm there, so I might as well make myself useful. 593 00:38:29,853 --> 00:38:31,855 Most guys don't want to get stuck doing recruitment. 594 00:38:31,939 --> 00:38:33,941 They're busy working their way upwards. 595 00:38:34,483 --> 00:38:36,693 I guess I'm busy working my way sideways. 596 00:38:37,694 --> 00:38:40,948 You are what they call a "blue flamer." You know what that is? 597 00:38:42,449 --> 00:38:43,534 No. What does that mean? 598 00:38:43,617 --> 00:38:44,910 You're so eager to do good, 599 00:38:44,993 --> 00:38:47,913 you have a big, blue flame shooting out of your asshole. 600 00:38:48,747 --> 00:38:51,667 Oh... is that bad? 601 00:38:52,084 --> 00:38:54,628 Just take it slow. You'll get there in the end. 602 00:38:56,672 --> 00:38:58,924 I'm just trying to be a better instructor. 603 00:39:00,801 --> 00:39:03,512 Right. Well, I was thinking about that. 604 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,515 I started this thing a couple of years ago. 605 00:39:06,598 --> 00:39:09,685 I go on the road and give classes in various police departments 606 00:39:09,768 --> 00:39:12,521 from Buffalo, New York to San Diego, California. 607 00:39:12,980 --> 00:39:15,440 There's a million cops out there who want to know what we know. 608 00:39:15,941 --> 00:39:19,027 So I go to them, give them a distillation of what we teach here, 609 00:39:19,111 --> 00:39:20,696 and they tell me what they've been doing. 610 00:39:20,779 --> 00:39:21,864 They learn something, 611 00:39:21,947 --> 00:39:25,325 and I learn something firsthand by getting involved on their level. 612 00:39:25,993 --> 00:39:27,369 But it's a big job, you know? 613 00:39:27,452 --> 00:39:29,621 I'm up to my neck in local law enforcement. 614 00:39:32,416 --> 00:39:34,001 Would you want some help with that? 615 00:39:36,545 --> 00:39:38,046 Maybe we could help each other. 616 00:39:50,250 --> 00:39:51,310 What? 617 00:39:51,393 --> 00:39:52,469 Nothing. 618 00:39:57,107 --> 00:39:58,567 Don't be shy. 619 00:39:59,067 --> 00:40:00,193 Did you orgasm? 620 00:40:00,277 --> 00:40:01,695 Did I orgasm? 621 00:40:01,778 --> 00:40:02,779 What? 622 00:40:03,363 --> 00:40:06,825 - I can't believe you're from New York. - You could be faking, right? 623 00:40:07,075 --> 00:40:08,911 You can't tell if a woman is faking? 624 00:40:08,994 --> 00:40:11,163 I can't even tell if a woman is interested. 625 00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:14,958 But you can tell if somebody's lying, like a suspect. 626 00:40:15,042 --> 00:40:16,752 That is not the same thing. 627 00:40:16,835 --> 00:40:18,712 Pretend I'm a suspect. 628 00:40:18,795 --> 00:40:21,298 Use your powers of deduction, Agent Ford. 629 00:40:22,507 --> 00:40:23,982 How can you figure out the criminal mind 630 00:40:23,983 --> 00:40:26,261 if you can't figure out your girlfriend? 631 00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:28,931 Are you my girlfriend? 632 00:40:29,348 --> 00:40:32,851 Wait. Is this another of those things you just can't tell? 633 00:40:33,393 --> 00:40:35,604 I don't know. Are you? 634 00:40:36,188 --> 00:40:38,774 What do you need, an exchange of rings over milkshakes? 635 00:40:38,857 --> 00:40:40,776 I just didn't want to presume anything. 636 00:40:41,234 --> 00:40:43,654 Really, Holden, sometimes you're like a monk. 637 00:40:44,529 --> 00:40:47,574 Surely people in law enforcement shouldn't be so naive. 638 00:40:47,658 --> 00:40:49,242 Does it make you uncomfortable... 639 00:40:50,535 --> 00:40:52,037 sleeping with a federal agent? 640 00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:56,208 Where did that come from? 641 00:40:58,752 --> 00:41:00,087 Does it turn you on? 642 00:41:01,630 --> 00:41:02,798 Not at all. 643 00:41:08,095 --> 00:41:09,471 Then why are you with me? 644 00:41:10,806 --> 00:41:12,307 You're smart. 645 00:41:14,935 --> 00:41:16,478 You're nice. 646 00:41:17,354 --> 00:41:18,563 Okay. 647 00:41:19,731 --> 00:41:21,900 What? Those are good things. 648 00:41:24,736 --> 00:41:26,822 And you're devastating. 649 00:41:28,323 --> 00:41:29,449 Well, thank you. 650 00:41:30,242 --> 00:41:31,660 Oh, come on, you're not leaving. 651 00:41:32,911 --> 00:41:34,287 I have to get up early. 652 00:41:34,871 --> 00:41:36,581 Tomorrow's the first day of school. 653 00:41:37,165 --> 00:41:39,459 Ninety-nine plus KFMH, 654 00:41:39,460 --> 00:41:42,921 Muscatine, Davenport in Iowa Central... 655 00:41:58,854 --> 00:42:01,690 Today might be a baptism of fire. They're gonna be on edge. 656 00:42:01,773 --> 00:42:03,358 - Just follow my lead. - What happened? 657 00:42:03,775 --> 00:42:05,902 They caught a big case and they're spooked. 658 00:42:05,986 --> 00:42:07,446 Don't talk to any reporters. 659 00:42:08,155 --> 00:42:11,241 And please, for God's sake, don't say we're from the FBI. 660 00:42:24,212 --> 00:42:27,174 Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm from the Fairfield Chronicle. 661 00:42:27,257 --> 00:42:29,384 You gentlemen are from the FBI, is that right? 662 00:42:29,468 --> 00:42:31,053 How are things with the Jeffries case? 663 00:42:31,136 --> 00:42:32,763 No idea what you're talking about. 664 00:42:32,846 --> 00:42:34,431 The Jeffries case. Ada Jeffries. 665 00:42:34,514 --> 00:42:37,601 - You can come back for the rest. - The woman found behind the church. 666 00:42:37,684 --> 00:42:40,270 - We're here for something else. - The woman and her little boy. 667 00:42:40,353 --> 00:42:41,730 We're instructors. 668 00:42:41,813 --> 00:42:43,273 Are you from the Methodist church? 669 00:42:43,356 --> 00:42:45,358 Do we look like we're from the Methodist church? 670 00:42:45,442 --> 00:42:46,501 Yes. 671 00:42:46,943 --> 00:42:47,944 Make a hole. 672 00:42:49,529 --> 00:42:50,697 Good to see ya. 673 00:42:51,907 --> 00:42:54,117 Motive, means, opportunity. 674 00:42:54,201 --> 00:42:57,579 The three pillars of criminal investigation for the last century. 675 00:42:58,163 --> 00:43:01,708 But it's 1977, and suddenly motive is elusive. 676 00:43:03,376 --> 00:43:04,753 What, why, who. 677 00:43:05,295 --> 00:43:08,173 "What happened?"Why did it happen that way?" 678 00:43:08,256 --> 00:43:10,092 "Who did it?" 679 00:43:11,134 --> 00:43:14,262 A person is murdered. Not sexually assaulted, not robbed. 680 00:43:14,638 --> 00:43:16,681 But the body is mutilated posthumously. 681 00:43:17,182 --> 00:43:19,851 The question is not only why did the killer do it, 682 00:43:19,935 --> 00:43:22,020 but why did the killer do it this way? 683 00:43:23,105 --> 00:43:27,192 We are now talking about... psychology. 684 00:43:30,237 --> 00:43:33,198 When I'm involved in a hostage negotiation, 685 00:43:33,281 --> 00:43:35,534 the perpetrator is standing right in front of me, 686 00:43:35,617 --> 00:43:38,870 but I have to gauge how much destruction he's capable of, 687 00:43:39,371 --> 00:43:41,737 what in his background or personal life 688 00:43:41,738 --> 00:43:43,635 that could've triggered today's standoff. 689 00:43:43,708 --> 00:43:45,252 Some people are just crazy, right? 690 00:43:45,794 --> 00:43:47,963 Crazy in that they have no reason for what they do? 691 00:43:48,046 --> 00:43:49,381 - Yeah. - Okay. 692 00:43:49,464 --> 00:43:51,275 But keep in mind, often, this crazy person 693 00:43:51,276 --> 00:43:53,925 has never done anything like this before. 694 00:43:54,010 --> 00:43:55,804 Something just... flips. 695 00:43:56,388 --> 00:43:58,265 - Like a switch. - Good, a switch. 696 00:43:58,765 --> 00:44:00,225 Anybody know what flips it? 697 00:44:01,184 --> 00:44:03,478 - Getting fired? - Fired. Yes. 698 00:44:03,562 --> 00:44:04,938 - Getting dumped. - Absolutely. 699 00:44:05,021 --> 00:44:07,232 A romantic breakup is a top trigger. 700 00:44:07,732 --> 00:44:11,528 When we know who the criminal is, we can understand what set him off. 701 00:44:11,611 --> 00:44:13,822 In a homicide situation, we do the inverse. 702 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,577 We ask, "What happened? Why did it happen that way?" 703 00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:20,787 Which narrows the search for who did it. 704 00:44:21,288 --> 00:44:24,583 But what if our killer is someone who's not rational? 705 00:44:31,256 --> 00:44:33,175 Why do we behave the way we do? 706 00:44:34,718 --> 00:44:38,805 It's a question asked by poets, and philosophers, and theologians 707 00:44:38,889 --> 00:44:40,515 since time immemorial. 708 00:44:40,932 --> 00:44:44,769 The playground of Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky, Freud. 709 00:44:44,853 --> 00:44:46,486 The stuff of Crime and Punishment 710 00:44:46,487 --> 00:44:48,440 and Beyond the Pleasure Principle. 711 00:44:49,691 --> 00:44:50,853 The greatest minds in history 712 00:44:50,854 --> 00:44:53,945 have been fascinated by the vagaries of behavior. 713 00:44:56,489 --> 00:44:59,312 So, in a case where we can't immediately 714 00:44:59,313 --> 00:45:01,494 divine a motive, we shouldn't panic. 715 00:45:02,203 --> 00:45:04,039 It's a riddle, but it can be solved. 716 00:45:04,122 --> 00:45:08,001 It's complex, but... it's human. 717 00:45:10,295 --> 00:45:12,297 Thank you, Holden. 718 00:45:13,465 --> 00:45:15,508 That was very... illuminating. 719 00:45:18,637 --> 00:45:21,181 So what the hell's Beyond the Pleasure Principle? 720 00:45:21,264 --> 00:45:24,100 - By Freud? - So this is about sex? 721 00:45:24,184 --> 00:45:26,770 Actually, it's where he looks for human impulses beyond sex, 722 00:45:26,853 --> 00:45:28,897 - specifically the death drive. - What's that? 723 00:45:28,980 --> 00:45:31,942 Something my kid does with a stick shift. 724 00:45:32,025 --> 00:45:34,486 Freud suggests that there's an innate desire for destruction, 725 00:45:34,569 --> 00:45:36,863 based on the propensity for matter to return... 726 00:45:36,947 --> 00:45:38,907 - What does this have to do with motive? - Well... 727 00:45:39,324 --> 00:45:43,328 we've always looked at motive as need or greed, right? 728 00:45:43,411 --> 00:45:46,289 - Guy steals a TV to sell it to buy drugs. - Exactly. 729 00:45:46,373 --> 00:45:49,376 But let's say, while he's at it, he steals your wife's panties, too. 730 00:45:49,459 --> 00:45:51,169 If he stole my wife's panties, I'd be amazed. 731 00:45:51,252 --> 00:45:53,797 Well, he's not selling those. 732 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,174 So why does he do it? Is it merely prurient? 733 00:45:56,257 --> 00:45:58,760 He could be motivated by something he doesn't even understand. 734 00:45:58,843 --> 00:46:01,096 Our new quest, like Freud, 735 00:46:01,179 --> 00:46:04,766 is to look beyond what we assume are obvious impulses. 736 00:46:04,849 --> 00:46:06,518 So why didn't you just say that? 737 00:46:11,231 --> 00:46:14,401 They don't want to learn. What are we even doing here? 738 00:46:14,651 --> 00:46:16,528 Don't make it too complicated. 739 00:46:16,778 --> 00:46:17,988 What's wrong with complicated? 740 00:46:18,071 --> 00:46:20,949 There's complicated and there's too complicated, Holden. 741 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,080 We used to do this experiment in social psychology. 742 00:46:27,622 --> 00:46:28,957 Uh-huh. What was that? 743 00:46:29,332 --> 00:46:32,961 You get onto a crowded elevator, and you face the opposite direction, 744 00:46:33,044 --> 00:46:36,548 the back of the elevator, and everybody freaks out. 745 00:46:37,048 --> 00:46:40,385 They're uncomfortable for reasons they can't even articulate. 746 00:46:41,469 --> 00:46:45,807 But if you turn around and face the front, everybody relaxes. 747 00:46:46,391 --> 00:46:49,019 Okay. Well, how do we do that? 748 00:46:51,938 --> 00:46:53,314 What do we have in common? 749 00:46:55,442 --> 00:46:56,651 What unites us? 750 00:46:58,653 --> 00:47:01,531 What keeps us all awake at night? 751 00:47:05,368 --> 00:47:09,164 Monster. Right? 752 00:47:10,123 --> 00:47:11,541 I think we can all agree. 753 00:47:13,626 --> 00:47:15,462 But what do you really know about him? 754 00:47:16,337 --> 00:47:19,049 Did you know that his mother was a jailbird and a prostitute? 755 00:47:19,424 --> 00:47:21,092 Did you know when he was ten years old, 756 00:47:21,176 --> 00:47:24,012 she palmed him off onto his sadistic, Bible-thumping uncle 757 00:47:24,095 --> 00:47:25,937 who beat him within an inch of his life 758 00:47:25,938 --> 00:47:28,683 and taunted him to act like a man? 759 00:47:29,517 --> 00:47:31,478 Charles responded to that by becoming a pimp 760 00:47:31,561 --> 00:47:34,272 and an armed robber, and was incarcerated for over 20 years, 761 00:47:34,355 --> 00:47:36,357 where he continued to be brutalized. 762 00:47:36,441 --> 00:47:41,279 In 1967, he was paroled, during the Summer of Love. 763 00:47:42,072 --> 00:47:43,448 And our nightmare began. 764 00:47:50,955 --> 00:47:52,373 - Jesus! - Come on! 765 00:47:54,626 --> 00:47:58,004 Here we have a child who was unwanted, unloved, regularly beaten, 766 00:47:58,088 --> 00:47:59,839 and repeatedly institutionalized. 767 00:47:59,923 --> 00:48:03,968 Now, might this not have had some sort of an effect on him? 768 00:48:04,636 --> 00:48:07,055 - He was born that way. - What way? 769 00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:10,183 - Just bad. - Can we be a little bit more specific? 770 00:48:10,266 --> 00:48:12,477 Technically, he didn't kill anybody. 771 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,897 Look at those eyes. How can you not say that dude's evil? 772 00:48:15,980 --> 00:48:19,651 That's a little bit Old Testament, don't you think? 773 00:48:19,734 --> 00:48:23,488 Good, evil, black, white, it's easy. 774 00:48:23,863 --> 00:48:26,699 But who in this room has a life that's easy? 775 00:48:27,534 --> 00:48:30,036 Circumstances affect behavior. 776 00:48:30,703 --> 00:48:32,747 When we look at Manson's background, 777 00:48:32,831 --> 00:48:36,292 the real question is, how could we not have seen this coming? 778 00:48:36,376 --> 00:48:37,435 We did. 779 00:48:37,877 --> 00:48:39,045 I'm sorry? 780 00:48:39,129 --> 00:48:42,590 He was institutionalized because we could see it coming. 781 00:48:42,674 --> 00:48:45,593 Okay, but I'm saying maybe, just maybe, 782 00:48:46,136 --> 00:48:48,972 locking him up his young life helped make him what he was. 783 00:48:49,055 --> 00:48:50,765 - No. - What the fuck? 784 00:48:50,849 --> 00:48:53,226 They locked him up because of what he did. 785 00:48:53,309 --> 00:48:54,769 They already knew what he was. 786 00:48:54,853 --> 00:48:57,939 Okay, guys, I'm not asking anybody to feel sorry for Charles Manson. 787 00:48:58,022 --> 00:49:00,775 If he were here, I'd shoot him dead. No one would stop me. 788 00:49:00,776 --> 00:49:01,776 Right. 789 00:49:01,776 --> 00:49:03,987 What Holden's trying to say is maybe it's both. 790 00:49:04,070 --> 00:49:06,239 The one impacting on the other in a vicious circle. 791 00:49:06,322 --> 00:49:08,491 Nobody has all the answers. 792 00:49:08,575 --> 00:49:11,494 - We have some answers. - We should be asking questions. 793 00:49:11,578 --> 00:49:12,829 No shit. 794 00:49:12,912 --> 00:49:15,331 Well, I'll just tell my buddies in Robbery-Homicide 795 00:49:15,415 --> 00:49:17,667 who were there when the corpses were found, 796 00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:21,004 that they may have overlooked a difficult upbringing. 797 00:49:21,087 --> 00:49:22,463 You were LAPD? 798 00:49:22,547 --> 00:49:23,882 Twenty-two years. 799 00:49:25,133 --> 00:49:26,259 You worked Manson? 800 00:49:26,342 --> 00:49:28,553 No, but I knew every single man who did. 801 00:49:29,929 --> 00:49:31,723 How many homicides have you worked? 802 00:49:35,476 --> 00:49:38,354 Figure out who you're talking to before you tell a sob story 803 00:49:38,438 --> 00:49:40,190 about little Chuckie Manson. 804 00:49:40,273 --> 00:49:42,525 They wrote "pigs" on the wall in their victims' blood. 805 00:49:42,609 --> 00:49:44,152 They completely missed my point. 806 00:49:44,235 --> 00:49:47,530 In the future, ask if anyone's worked a case before you bring it up. 807 00:49:47,614 --> 00:49:50,450 - Know your fucking audience. - Oh, shit. 808 00:49:51,409 --> 00:49:53,703 It's okay, they always do this. 809 00:49:53,786 --> 00:49:55,538 Just be a good listener. 810 00:49:55,622 --> 00:49:56,639 Gentlemen. 811 00:49:58,208 --> 00:49:59,209 Frank McGraw. 812 00:50:00,168 --> 00:50:02,170 I didn't mean to embarrass anybody back there. 813 00:50:02,253 --> 00:50:03,379 Not a problem. 814 00:50:03,463 --> 00:50:05,548 We're all a little tense around here. 815 00:50:05,632 --> 00:50:08,316 You must have heard about the mother and child 816 00:50:08,317 --> 00:50:09,317 who were murdered recently. 817 00:50:09,385 --> 00:50:12,180 - Ada Jeffries and her boy. - We've seen reporters. 818 00:50:13,389 --> 00:50:14,974 She was bound, 819 00:50:15,058 --> 00:50:17,352 stabbed repeatedly about the chest and face. 820 00:50:18,019 --> 00:50:19,270 The boy's throat was cut. 821 00:50:19,354 --> 00:50:22,357 Rough one. 822 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,277 I don't understand entirely what you're talking about with psychology. 823 00:50:27,654 --> 00:50:30,073 I don't understand much of anything anymore. 824 00:50:30,156 --> 00:50:31,741 What's on your mind, Frank? 825 00:50:34,035 --> 00:50:36,621 - I hate to bother. - No, by all means. Bother us. 826 00:50:43,086 --> 00:50:46,965 When I left Los Angeles, I thought I'd gone far enough. 827 00:50:49,759 --> 00:50:53,263 Ada was the kind of woman who wouldn't say boo to a goose. 828 00:50:53,805 --> 00:50:56,557 She came from a deeply religious family in Arkansas. 829 00:50:57,100 --> 00:50:59,894 When they found out she was pregnant, they put her out. 830 00:51:00,395 --> 00:51:02,939 She lived in a rooming house in Libertyville. 831 00:51:03,022 --> 00:51:07,569 No drugs, no alcohol, never had a brush with the law. 832 00:51:08,319 --> 00:51:10,488 The boy was polite and quiet. 833 00:51:11,155 --> 00:51:13,908 She had him in Sunday school at the Methodist church. 834 00:51:14,242 --> 00:51:17,412 She would sweep the steps every evening, 835 00:51:18,329 --> 00:51:19,747 just to be of service. 836 00:51:21,499 --> 00:51:22,834 I never met Ada. 837 00:51:23,551 --> 00:51:24,627 Every now and again, 838 00:51:24,711 --> 00:51:27,422 I'd see her and her son walk along the road into town. 839 00:51:28,506 --> 00:51:29,716 They didn't have a car. 840 00:51:32,427 --> 00:51:34,178 Landlady found the bodies. 841 00:51:37,223 --> 00:51:38,474 They had been dead... 842 00:51:40,685 --> 00:51:41,686 four days. 843 00:51:47,942 --> 00:51:49,777 What people won't do to each other. 844 00:51:50,945 --> 00:51:52,530 Nothing people won't do. 845 00:51:54,657 --> 00:51:55,867 How can we help? 846 00:51:58,619 --> 00:52:01,622 She was found cuffed and lashed to the bed. 847 00:52:02,248 --> 00:52:04,542 A broomstick perforated her rectum. 848 00:52:05,543 --> 00:52:07,795 Whoever it was made the boy watch, 849 00:52:09,380 --> 00:52:11,174 then did the same thing to him. 850 00:52:12,425 --> 00:52:13,468 How'd he get in? 851 00:52:13,843 --> 00:52:16,637 Bathroom window. We think that's how he came and went. 852 00:52:17,221 --> 00:52:18,681 There was no sign of forcible entry. 853 00:52:19,432 --> 00:52:21,517 - No one heard a peep. - In a rooming house? 854 00:52:21,601 --> 00:52:25,229 My assumption is, he held a knife to the boy to keep her quiet, 855 00:52:26,064 --> 00:52:27,273 and vice versa. 856 00:52:27,357 --> 00:52:29,734 This falls clearly into the category of lust murder. 857 00:52:29,817 --> 00:52:31,527 By that I mean it's sexually motivated. 858 00:52:31,611 --> 00:52:34,072 That cannot be about horny. 859 00:52:34,155 --> 00:52:35,867 It's more about sexual gratification 860 00:52:35,868 --> 00:52:37,909 through the annihilation of another. 861 00:52:38,242 --> 00:52:40,995 - Did you find semen? - Found some on a throw cushion. 862 00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:44,082 It was blood type O. I know that's not much help. 863 00:52:44,165 --> 00:52:45,917 - In the victims? - No. 864 00:52:46,793 --> 00:52:49,087 - He didn't rape them. - He could have problems with sex. 865 00:52:49,170 --> 00:52:50,421 That'd be a good bet. 866 00:52:50,505 --> 00:52:52,131 Could narrow things with your suspects. 867 00:52:52,215 --> 00:52:53,758 I don't have suspects. 868 00:52:53,841 --> 00:52:56,803 I don't have fingerprints, shoe prints, 869 00:52:56,886 --> 00:52:58,679 not so much as a single hair. 870 00:52:59,147 --> 00:53:00,181 Well... 871 00:53:00,264 --> 00:53:02,725 The fact that the killer left nothing behind is interesting. 872 00:53:02,809 --> 00:53:04,852 It must have been premeditated to a degree. 873 00:53:04,936 --> 00:53:08,106 He had gloves, he cleaned up after himself. 874 00:53:08,189 --> 00:53:09,732 You think he was stalking her? 875 00:53:09,816 --> 00:53:12,402 - Or she just caught his eye. - What about the boy? 876 00:53:13,027 --> 00:53:14,028 He was a witness. 877 00:53:14,112 --> 00:53:16,531 There are more expedient ways to get rid of a witness. 878 00:53:16,614 --> 00:53:18,866 - Why make the boy watch? - And why sodomize him? 879 00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:20,118 That's a good point. 880 00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:23,788 Is this crime about the woman or about the child? 881 00:53:27,125 --> 00:53:30,044 - You're asking me? - I was just posing questions. 882 00:53:31,337 --> 00:53:32,755 I get that. 883 00:53:32,839 --> 00:53:34,507 - The broomstick. - Yeah? 884 00:53:34,590 --> 00:53:37,510 Is it the same broomstick she used to sweep the church steps? 885 00:53:37,593 --> 00:53:39,720 - What if it is? - He might not be a congregant, 886 00:53:39,804 --> 00:53:41,140 maybe someone just passing through, 887 00:53:41,141 --> 00:53:44,016 but the church could be significant. 888 00:53:44,017 --> 00:53:45,034 Could be? 889 00:53:45,101 --> 00:53:47,228 With the idea of service. 890 00:53:48,312 --> 00:53:52,150 I think that there's a passage in Mark. 891 00:53:52,233 --> 00:53:54,652 Something about the "Son of Man." 892 00:53:55,486 --> 00:53:56,904 I don't follow. 893 00:53:56,988 --> 00:53:59,449 All I'm saying is, the broom may mean something. 894 00:53:59,532 --> 00:54:00,533 What? 895 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,202 I don't know. 896 00:54:03,286 --> 00:54:05,246 It's hard to tell from just the photos. 897 00:54:08,332 --> 00:54:12,503 This woman was devoted to her child, tried hard, 898 00:54:12,587 --> 00:54:14,505 and some stranger came along and... 899 00:54:16,174 --> 00:54:19,427 Come on, Agent Ford, you got fancy methods. 900 00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:23,848 What does a broomstick in the ass of a dirt poor single mom mean? 901 00:54:29,395 --> 00:54:30,563 I don't know. 902 00:54:31,272 --> 00:54:32,440 You're kidding me. 903 00:54:32,523 --> 00:54:33,691 I don't understand it. 904 00:54:34,775 --> 00:54:37,945 - We can't help you with this. - We need more time to go over this. 905 00:54:38,029 --> 00:54:42,033 We are in the dark here. We don't know any more than you do. 906 00:54:44,035 --> 00:54:45,870 How fucking dare you? 907 00:54:46,704 --> 00:54:48,372 I'm sorry we wasted your time. 908 00:54:54,670 --> 00:54:56,798 Can I get these back to you? 909 00:55:33,834 --> 00:55:35,670 - In the dark, huh? - We are. 910 00:55:35,753 --> 00:55:38,506 I have studied everything we have. I've taken this ride here, 911 00:55:38,589 --> 00:55:40,800 listened to everything you've been kind enough to teach, 912 00:55:40,883 --> 00:55:42,391 but we're talking about something 913 00:55:42,392 --> 00:55:43,719 we don't understand in the slightest. 914 00:55:43,803 --> 00:55:44,887 I was trying to help you. 915 00:55:44,971 --> 00:55:47,306 If you don't like it, go back to your college kids 916 00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:48,432 and we'll forget about it. 917 00:55:48,516 --> 00:55:49,892 Ada and her son were killed 918 00:55:49,976 --> 00:55:52,186 for reasons we are simply not equipped to understand. 919 00:55:52,270 --> 00:55:53,771 It wasn't lust murder. 920 00:55:53,854 --> 00:55:56,649 It wasn't some random thrill killer who was born bad, 921 00:55:56,732 --> 00:55:59,443 and it wasn't a pantie thief who wanted to change things up. 922 00:55:59,527 --> 00:56:00,820 It was an aberration. 923 00:56:00,903 --> 00:56:02,905 Let me tell you something about aberrant behavior. 924 00:56:02,989 --> 00:56:04,240 It's fucking aberrant. 925 00:56:04,323 --> 00:56:06,784 If we understood it, we'd be aberrant too. 926 00:56:06,867 --> 00:56:09,537 Fortunately, it's not incumbent upon us to write a dissertation. 927 00:56:09,620 --> 00:56:11,163 - Well, maybe we should. - Why? 928 00:56:12,248 --> 00:56:15,835 Our job is to give him something he could not have figured out himself. 929 00:56:15,918 --> 00:56:18,546 - I am sticking my neck out for you. - No disrespect. 930 00:56:18,629 --> 00:56:20,453 At the moment, I don't think we can say anything 931 00:56:20,454 --> 00:56:22,300 to McGraw with any certainty. 932 00:56:22,383 --> 00:56:24,510 Let me ask you something. Where are you from? 933 00:56:26,637 --> 00:56:29,515 I was born in New York, but it's kind of a mixed bag. 934 00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:32,727 Okay. Well, that's what you are right now, a mixed bag. 935 00:56:33,227 --> 00:56:35,855 A little college education, some experience on the street, 936 00:56:35,938 --> 00:56:38,065 some insight, a lot of horseshit. 937 00:56:38,149 --> 00:56:39,692 I agree with you. 938 00:56:39,775 --> 00:56:42,111 It's been one step forward, two steps back. 939 00:56:42,194 --> 00:56:44,572 Let me ask you something else. Do you have a girlfriend? 940 00:56:45,531 --> 00:56:47,992 - I do now, Bill, as it happens. - Okay. 941 00:56:48,075 --> 00:56:52,079 So next time you're a long way from home and you flip your shit, 942 00:56:52,163 --> 00:56:55,708 you find a pay phone and you tell it to your girlfriend. 943 00:56:56,459 --> 00:56:57,543 - Okay? - Okay. 944 00:56:57,627 --> 00:57:00,504 - How's that sound? - It sounds okay, Bill. 945 00:57:24,237 --> 00:57:29,237 - Synced and corrected by chamallow - - www.addic7ed.com -