1 00:00:21,605 --> 00:00:22,648 May I help you? 2 00:00:23,357 --> 00:00:25,150 Yes. Thank you. 3 00:00:25,234 --> 00:00:27,236 I need some replacement electrical tape. 4 00:00:27,569 --> 00:00:30,280 Okay. You bring me the empty and I'll get you a new roll. 5 00:00:30,364 --> 00:00:31,440 Empty what? 6 00:00:32,199 --> 00:00:35,035 The cardboard core that's left when you run out of tape. 7 00:00:36,078 --> 00:00:37,412 What? Why? 8 00:00:38,205 --> 00:00:39,623 That's the way we do it. 9 00:00:40,457 --> 00:00:43,377 I can't give you a new one until we get the old. 10 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:44,460 Are you kidding me? 11 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,296 No. 12 00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:51,093 Whatever, Dennis. 13 00:02:40,744 --> 00:02:43,664 This is your captain speaking. New York City to the Bay Area... 14 00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:46,557 Just, hey, do me a favor. Don't mention this to me ever again. 15 00:02:46,582 --> 00:02:47,584 I'm going to. 16 00:02:47,609 --> 00:02:49,610 It's the insanest idea I've ever heard. 17 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,630 - I'm going to, Bill. - We have a job to do. 18 00:02:51,713 --> 00:02:54,800 - We are here to teach. - Chino, California Medical, 19 00:02:54,883 --> 00:02:57,928 California Men's Colony, Norco, Soledad, San Quentin... 20 00:02:58,011 --> 00:03:01,181 If you'd said to me, "I want to become a Beach Boy, take up surfing", 21 00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,433 - "sit around smoking the vibes." - Folsom. 22 00:03:03,517 --> 00:03:05,227 Or, "I want to make it in the movies." 23 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:07,729 Gonna get me a walk-up in West Hollywood and a Pekingese." 24 00:03:07,813 --> 00:03:10,440 Manson is 30 miles away in Vacaville. 25 00:03:10,524 --> 00:03:12,109 A hop, skip, and a jump. 26 00:03:12,484 --> 00:03:14,820 - You really wanna meet Charlie Manson? - Why not? 27 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:16,783 - Sir. - Swing by and say hi. 28 00:03:16,807 --> 00:03:17,824 Yeah. 29 00:03:18,615 --> 00:03:19,633 Thank you. 30 00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:23,954 Nobody wants to hear about that crazy motherfucker. 31 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:25,122 You know this. 32 00:03:25,205 --> 00:03:28,125 Welcome to San Francisco. Please remain seated... 33 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,878 Besides, when are you gonna find time for these fireside chats, Holden? 34 00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:35,340 I'll figure it out. 35 00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:41,012 Nobody can talk to Manson. 36 00:03:41,096 --> 00:03:43,807 Tom Snyder's been trying to interview him for years. 37 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,143 We're the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 38 00:03:46,226 --> 00:03:48,437 What if his civil rights are being violated? 39 00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:50,439 Please just get in the car. 40 00:04:11,835 --> 00:04:15,255 In California every year, 35 percent of murders go unsolved. 41 00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:18,675 That's more unsolved murders than in any other state. 42 00:04:18,759 --> 00:04:20,510 It's partly due to geography. 43 00:04:20,594 --> 00:04:22,721 In the woods, in the mountains, 44 00:04:22,804 --> 00:04:24,924 - ravines, hiking trails... - You can't get to Manson, 45 00:04:24,948 --> 00:04:27,350 even if you're a fed. 46 00:04:27,434 --> 00:04:29,853 CMF treats him like a fucking unicorn. 47 00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:33,273 No one needs to think about psychology more than the people in Santa Cruz. 48 00:04:34,095 --> 00:04:35,441 In a homicide situation... 49 00:04:35,466 --> 00:04:37,897 If you go to Vacaville, meet Ed Kemper. 50 00:04:38,069 --> 00:04:40,419 What happened that triggered him? 51 00:04:40,492 --> 00:04:41,972 Give me that name again. 52 00:04:42,032 --> 00:04:45,535 Kemper. Ed Kemper. They call him the "Coed Killer." 53 00:04:45,619 --> 00:04:48,997 What about when even the killer doesn't know why he behaved as he did? 54 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,833 You can't miss the guy. He's like six foot nine, 285 pounds. 55 00:04:51,917 --> 00:04:53,502 - Whoa. King-size. - Super king. 56 00:04:53,585 --> 00:04:57,297 - Violent murder used to be... - Killed a bunch of coeds in Santa Cruz. 57 00:04:57,380 --> 00:04:59,208 Six teenage girls, chops their heads off, 58 00:04:59,233 --> 00:05:00,833 has sexual intercourse with the corpses. 59 00:05:00,857 --> 00:05:02,844 - Oh... - Kills his mom with a claw hammer, 60 00:05:02,928 --> 00:05:04,805 has sexual intercourse with her head. 61 00:05:04,888 --> 00:05:06,932 - Bullshit. - In her mouth. 62 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:08,475 - No. - Yeah. 63 00:05:08,558 --> 00:05:11,645 When strangers murder strangers for no apparent reason... 64 00:05:11,728 --> 00:05:14,648 He was in a mental institution right up until then too. 65 00:05:14,731 --> 00:05:17,818 He's a total whack job. He was murdering his grandparents at the age of 15, 66 00:05:17,901 --> 00:05:21,446 but then he manages to convince everyone that he's completely rehabilitated. 67 00:05:21,449 --> 00:05:22,474 Oh, my God. 68 00:05:22,489 --> 00:05:25,617 In many of these crimes, the motives are not just obscure... 69 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,703 Jim Conor knew him real well. I'll introduce you. 70 00:05:28,787 --> 00:05:30,121 - Really? - Yeah. 71 00:05:30,205 --> 00:05:32,833 - ... borderline unfathomable. - Thank you. 72 00:05:33,792 --> 00:05:36,378 Used to call him Big Ed. Everybody here knew him. 73 00:05:36,962 --> 00:05:40,715 - Was he an informant? - No, but he was smart. He was funny. 74 00:05:41,337 --> 00:05:43,413 He used to watch all the cop shows on TV. 75 00:05:43,484 --> 00:05:45,286 Crazy about Wambaugh and Police Story. 76 00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:47,764 He wanted to be CHP, but it didn't work out. 77 00:05:47,847 --> 00:05:50,684 He would joke that they could conceal his psychiatric record 78 00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:51,935 but not his fat ass. 79 00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:54,688 Stupid shit like that. 80 00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:57,649 Guys like him always want to be in uniform. 81 00:05:57,732 --> 00:06:00,151 Losers. Losers are drawn to authority. 82 00:06:00,235 --> 00:06:02,571 Nobody wants to admit it, but losers are useful. 83 00:06:02,654 --> 00:06:04,531 - Why? - They're nosy. 84 00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:06,529 They know what everybody else is up to. 85 00:06:06,554 --> 00:06:08,309 And they're resentful, a lot of 'em. 86 00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:10,704 - They always got a raw deal. - Ed was a busybody. 87 00:06:11,288 --> 00:06:13,208 And this was before you knew about the killings? 88 00:06:13,290 --> 00:06:16,042 Oh, we knew about 'em, just hadn't connected them with him. 89 00:06:16,126 --> 00:06:19,170 - He kept asking about them, though. - And you didn't suspect him? 90 00:06:21,881 --> 00:06:22,882 What? 91 00:06:22,966 --> 00:06:25,051 "What?" You liked the guy. 92 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:29,764 - Let's say he was a friendly nuisance. - Oh, come on. 93 00:06:29,848 --> 00:06:32,601 - He was hard not to like. - So you were the arresting officer? 94 00:06:32,684 --> 00:06:35,687 In the end, he lit out to Pueblo, Colorado, 95 00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:37,939 expecting there to be some kind of manhunt. 96 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,694 When nobody came, 97 00:06:39,719 --> 00:06:42,384 he got sick of waiting and decided to turn himself in. 98 00:06:43,028 --> 00:06:45,488 Called from a pay phone. Confessed! 99 00:06:46,197 --> 00:06:49,284 We thought he was bullshitting. I drove him all the way back. 100 00:06:49,367 --> 00:06:53,288 He wouldn't stop yakking. Going into forensic detail. 101 00:06:53,371 --> 00:06:54,873 I thought I hit the jackpot. 102 00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:58,293 After a few hours, I'm like, "Oh, God, please. Enough!" 103 00:06:58,376 --> 00:07:00,086 You think Kemper would talk to us? 104 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:02,422 Try stopping him. 105 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:03,673 Who's "us," kemosabe? 106 00:07:08,053 --> 00:07:10,180 David Berkowitz, 24. 107 00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:13,850 Spent his days sorting letters at the post office so he could... 108 00:07:13,934 --> 00:07:14,968 What? 109 00:07:15,352 --> 00:07:17,020 Really, what are you expecting to learn? 110 00:07:17,604 --> 00:07:19,981 A killer who can't stop talking? It's a gift. 111 00:07:20,065 --> 00:07:21,124 A gift, huh? 112 00:07:21,691 --> 00:07:23,902 He made a severed head perform fellatio on him. 113 00:07:24,611 --> 00:07:27,364 His third victim was a 15-year-old child, Holden. 114 00:07:29,491 --> 00:07:30,492 You don't want to talk? 115 00:07:30,575 --> 00:07:33,536 So, basically, you just got me out here to carry your slide projector? 116 00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:36,706 To help with the workload, yeah. The work we're sanctioned to do. 117 00:07:36,790 --> 00:07:39,793 Kemper doesn't interest you or is beneath you somehow? 118 00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:40,961 A little of both. 119 00:07:41,586 --> 00:07:44,089 - This is the man... - Think the tie's too much? 120 00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:45,924 What about the suit? 121 00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:48,635 Anybody finds out you're a fed, there'll be a riot. 122 00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:51,137 Shepard finds out you've been interviewing the Coed Killer 123 00:07:51,221 --> 00:07:52,847 as a side project, he'll flip his shit. 124 00:07:52,931 --> 00:07:55,475 It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. 125 00:07:55,558 --> 00:07:57,811 Okay. 126 00:07:59,145 --> 00:08:02,691 If you're gonna go in, you need to go in stone goddamn cold, 127 00:08:02,774 --> 00:08:05,619 take him by surprise, get the fuck out as quick as possible. 128 00:08:05,644 --> 00:08:06,777 Good advice. 129 00:08:06,802 --> 00:08:08,606 Straight in there, don't phone, 130 00:08:08,631 --> 00:08:10,621 don't give them a chance to ask around. 131 00:08:10,657 --> 00:08:11,741 I'm a buddy of Jim Conor's. 132 00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:15,662 "Jim Conor reached out," you bet. "He sends his regards." 133 00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:17,914 "I stopped by the Jury Room for a drink." 134 00:08:17,998 --> 00:08:20,583 "The guys all say..." Blah, blah, blah. 135 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:23,294 - "Can I call you Big Ed?" - I wouldn't mention the killings. 136 00:08:23,378 --> 00:08:25,547 You're not there because he's a necrophile degenerate. 137 00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:27,966 You're there because he's... fascinating. 138 00:08:28,049 --> 00:08:29,759 How do I not mention the killings? 139 00:08:30,385 --> 00:08:31,428 Just take it slow. 140 00:08:33,346 --> 00:08:35,807 - What are you doing? - Just in case. 141 00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:37,851 They're not gonna let you in with a sidearm. 142 00:08:37,934 --> 00:08:40,770 The guy is six foot nine, weighs 300 pounds. 143 00:08:40,854 --> 00:08:42,939 - That's right. - So what's he gonna do? 144 00:08:43,023 --> 00:08:45,734 He's gonna take the fucking thing away, kill you with it, 145 00:08:45,817 --> 00:08:47,902 and then have sex with your face. 146 00:09:03,334 --> 00:09:04,377 Hold it, guys. 147 00:09:09,569 --> 00:09:10,584 You're clear. 148 00:09:10,609 --> 00:09:12,021 I don't want to spoil your fun. 149 00:09:12,052 --> 00:09:13,845 I'm good. Nine is fine. 150 00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:15,847 You could come. Take notes. 151 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:18,183 You take notes, I'll help you write 'em up. 152 00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:19,809 You're really gonna go golfing 153 00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:22,937 while I glean profound insights from the Coed Killer? 154 00:09:23,021 --> 00:09:24,981 - It's my day off. - You're gonna be sorry. 155 00:09:25,065 --> 00:09:26,483 No. You're gonna be sorry, Holden, 156 00:09:26,534 --> 00:09:27,814 when he decides you're using him 157 00:09:27,838 --> 00:09:29,551 and there's nothing in it for good old Ed. 158 00:09:29,611 --> 00:09:30,987 - I think there is. - What? 159 00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:34,949 He's going to be part of something instead of rotting inside a cell. 160 00:09:35,033 --> 00:09:37,368 Part of what? We're not even here. 161 00:09:40,246 --> 00:09:41,281 All right. 162 00:09:47,712 --> 00:09:50,048 I must respectfully ask for your badge and firearm. 163 00:09:53,218 --> 00:09:54,469 Yes, sir. 164 00:10:02,185 --> 00:10:04,562 In addition, I have some paperwork for you to sign. 165 00:10:04,604 --> 00:10:07,126 A disclaimer that states in the event of your death, 166 00:10:07,151 --> 00:10:08,483 or if you're taken hostage, 167 00:10:08,606 --> 00:10:10,206 attacked, assaulted, or otherwise abused 168 00:10:10,231 --> 00:10:11,551 within the correctional facility, 169 00:10:11,575 --> 00:10:14,670 the United States government forswears any and all liability. 170 00:10:15,907 --> 00:10:18,701 Oh. Okay. 171 00:10:47,313 --> 00:10:48,648 Kiss my ass! 172 00:10:59,409 --> 00:11:01,494 Hey, boy, bring that shit over here! 173 00:11:01,578 --> 00:11:02,579 Bitch! 174 00:11:45,496 --> 00:11:47,540 Can we unlock the... 175 00:11:47,624 --> 00:11:49,500 No, those stay on. They're regulation. 176 00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:53,004 I think that's gonna be a little awkward. 177 00:11:54,964 --> 00:11:56,132 You're FBI. 178 00:12:03,806 --> 00:12:06,392 - Okay. You're all set. - Thanks, Jim. 179 00:12:06,476 --> 00:12:08,228 - I'll see ya later. - Later. 180 00:12:16,486 --> 00:12:17,570 Holden, right? 181 00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:22,283 - Edward. - Edmund. 182 00:12:22,367 --> 00:12:24,100 Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed that it was... 183 00:12:24,125 --> 00:12:25,127 Are you tired? 184 00:12:25,173 --> 00:12:26,287 How could you tell? 185 00:12:26,371 --> 00:12:28,831 It's a beautiful drive, but it's long. 186 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:33,336 Edmund was my mom's idea, so you can call me Ed. 187 00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:37,632 Sure thing. 188 00:12:39,842 --> 00:12:41,344 So how can I help? 189 00:12:42,929 --> 00:12:44,764 Okay. Um... 190 00:12:46,391 --> 00:12:47,641 I'm an instructor, 191 00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:50,210 working out of the Behavioral Science Unit at Quantico, 192 00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:51,437 and I had this idea... 193 00:12:51,521 --> 00:12:52,981 Have you had breakfast? 194 00:12:53,064 --> 00:12:55,483 Can I get you something? You want a sandwich? 195 00:12:56,067 --> 00:12:58,861 - No, I'm okay. - What kind of sandwich you like? 196 00:13:00,154 --> 00:13:04,200 - Um... I'm good. - You want an egg salad sandwich? 197 00:13:04,701 --> 00:13:08,121 - I'm fine. Really. - I'll get us an egg salad sandwich. 198 00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:10,915 I can get almost anything you want from the canteen. 199 00:13:16,212 --> 00:13:17,213 Okay. 200 00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:21,384 - Do you have tuna? - Oh, the egg salad's better. 201 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,095 - Hey, Jim? - Yeah, Ed? 202 00:13:24,171 --> 00:13:25,724 Have you seen Mitch this morning? 203 00:13:25,749 --> 00:13:27,311 You think you can find him for me? 204 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:33,521 - Good, huh? - Mmm! 205 00:13:34,063 --> 00:13:35,398 These guys are great. 206 00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:38,776 I've been here five years. We just clicked right off the bat. 207 00:13:40,111 --> 00:13:41,320 You like the guards? 208 00:13:42,488 --> 00:13:44,157 Well, they like me. I'm polite. 209 00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:49,871 You know, I heard that you used to drink at the Jury Room. 210 00:13:50,413 --> 00:13:52,165 You mean in Santa Cruz? 211 00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:54,917 Yeah, those are good guys. 212 00:13:55,835 --> 00:13:58,588 I applied to California Highway Patrol. 213 00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:03,176 My mom spoke to the cops to get my psychiatric record expunged. 214 00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,430 Turns out my record didn't bother them at all, I was just too tall. 215 00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:11,726 Too tall? I've heard of being too short, but... 216 00:14:13,936 --> 00:14:14,937 What? 217 00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:16,898 Nothing. It just seems... 218 00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:18,566 You think they lied to me? 219 00:14:20,651 --> 00:14:21,686 No. 220 00:14:22,945 --> 00:14:26,115 Well, cops like me because they can talk to me... 221 00:14:27,033 --> 00:14:29,952 more than they can talk to their own wives, some of them. 222 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:31,579 Really? What do you talk about? 223 00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,581 You know, books, movies. 224 00:14:33,664 --> 00:14:36,584 I watch all the cop shows on TV. 225 00:14:36,667 --> 00:14:37,794 Do you know, uh... 226 00:14:39,212 --> 00:14:42,131 Joseph Wambaugh, Police Story? You ever watch that? 227 00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:43,466 - Huge fan. - Oh. 228 00:14:43,549 --> 00:14:46,552 I got a lot of my insights right there. 229 00:14:46,636 --> 00:14:47,712 Really? 230 00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,181 What kind of insights? 231 00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:52,141 Well, so, for example, with cops, 232 00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:54,811 I would not allow myself to walk into a trap 233 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:58,689 because I knew exactly how their minds worked from watching Wambaugh. 234 00:14:58,773 --> 00:15:00,525 What kind of trap are you talking about? 235 00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:02,985 The classic is talking too much about the crimes. 236 00:15:03,069 --> 00:15:04,112 Over-interest. 237 00:15:04,654 --> 00:15:06,489 You have to remain casual. 238 00:15:07,073 --> 00:15:09,575 They tried everything to trick me. I'm too savvy. 239 00:15:09,659 --> 00:15:11,619 I don't fucking talk, period. 240 00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,540 Really? That's interesting. 241 00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:16,657 So... 242 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,544 you had this idea? 243 00:15:19,627 --> 00:15:20,753 Yes. Uh, yes. 244 00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,173 It's kind of, uh... 245 00:15:27,510 --> 00:15:30,012 Well, it's more of a research thing. 246 00:15:30,096 --> 00:15:31,097 Research. 247 00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,349 Just a series of interviews, 248 00:15:33,891 --> 00:15:35,101 chatting with... 249 00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:39,439 individuals not unlike yourself. 250 00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,066 We're just talking? 251 00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:45,945 I don't get to go someplace, do a bunch of tests? 252 00:15:46,028 --> 00:15:48,239 No. Yeah, no tests. Just right here. 253 00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:49,815 Why? 254 00:15:50,199 --> 00:15:52,493 Well, because I believe it could be useful. 255 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,371 Talking about what? 256 00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:57,206 Well, I don't know. 257 00:15:59,292 --> 00:16:00,309 Your... 258 00:16:01,294 --> 00:16:03,379 behavior, I guess. 259 00:16:05,381 --> 00:16:06,632 If you want to, that is. 260 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:10,386 We don't have to talk about anything at all if you don't want to. 261 00:16:11,846 --> 00:16:13,723 Why are you so tense? 262 00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:14,824 Hm? 263 00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:16,976 You're tense, right now. 264 00:16:17,602 --> 00:16:19,061 No, I'm not tense. 265 00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:24,108 Well, I'll be honest, I don't get many visitors. 266 00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:27,487 When I do, you think they want to talk about this shit? 267 00:16:28,029 --> 00:16:31,115 Fuck no. It's like if you worked at a slaughterhouse with livestock, 268 00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:33,034 real conversation stopper. 269 00:16:33,418 --> 00:16:34,452 Did you? 270 00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:36,329 No, I'm just saying... 271 00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,790 People who hunt other people for a vocation, 272 00:16:39,874 --> 00:16:42,752 all we want to talk about is what it's like. 273 00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:46,255 The shit that went down. The entire fucked-upness of it. 274 00:16:47,298 --> 00:16:48,466 Right, sure. 275 00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:52,094 It's not easy. Butchering people is hard work. 276 00:16:52,803 --> 00:16:56,224 Physically and mentally. I don't think people realize. 277 00:16:56,307 --> 00:16:57,600 You need to vent. 278 00:16:59,727 --> 00:17:01,354 What are you writing down? 279 00:17:01,437 --> 00:17:05,733 Oh, I just think it's an interesting choice of words, "vocation." 280 00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:08,861 Well, what would you call it? 281 00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:12,782 A hobby? I'd say it's more than that. 282 00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:17,620 Look at the consequences. The stakes are very high. 283 00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:24,043 Is this helping? Are you getting what you came for? 284 00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:25,545 - I think. - Good. 285 00:17:25,628 --> 00:17:27,547 Can I... Could I just ask you something? 286 00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:31,050 Do you believe that prison can help you? 287 00:17:31,634 --> 00:17:32,635 Are you kidding? 288 00:17:33,177 --> 00:17:35,638 You think you shouldn't be in prison? 289 00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:37,595 I think it's shutting the barn door 290 00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:39,708 after the horse has bolted, somewhat. 291 00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,812 What do you think the state should do with you instead? 292 00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:46,399 Well, Holden, a lobotomy's not out of the question. 293 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:47,692 Lobotomy? 294 00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:49,235 Like Frances Farmer. 295 00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:52,280 - You remember Frances Farmer? - No. 296 00:17:52,363 --> 00:17:54,782 I loved Frances Farmer. She was an actress. 297 00:17:55,199 --> 00:17:57,034 They lobotomized her in the '50s. 298 00:17:57,118 --> 00:17:59,404 She was very smart and intense... 299 00:17:59,429 --> 00:18:02,798 very misunderstood. She was a lot like me. 300 00:18:02,832 --> 00:18:05,334 You don't think you could benefit from psychiatry? 301 00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:08,629 I already did all that in the institution. 302 00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:11,507 It didn't take. 303 00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:16,012 For me, I think surgery might give me the best chance. 304 00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,473 And if surgery doesn't... take, 305 00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:21,578 in this modern society, 306 00:18:21,603 --> 00:18:24,838 what do we do with the Ed Kempers of the world? 307 00:18:25,313 --> 00:18:27,106 Well, isn't that your department? 308 00:18:30,401 --> 00:18:31,736 From your perspective. 309 00:18:37,325 --> 00:18:38,701 Death by torture? 310 00:18:58,012 --> 00:19:00,681 So what are you not telling me? 311 00:19:01,265 --> 00:19:03,684 Why do you keep looking at me like that? 312 00:19:03,768 --> 00:19:05,936 - Like what? - Funny. 313 00:19:06,020 --> 00:19:08,981 You keep looking at me like I'm a specimen. 314 00:19:10,733 --> 00:19:12,318 Well, to be honest... 315 00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:16,322 It's just you seem like a nice, ordinary... 316 00:19:17,615 --> 00:19:21,160 It's difficult for me to square you with what you're in prison for. 317 00:19:22,453 --> 00:19:23,471 Oh. 318 00:19:24,246 --> 00:19:25,289 Well, sure. 319 00:19:28,084 --> 00:19:31,337 I was a regular guy most of my life, 320 00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:33,756 with a nice home, nice suburb. 321 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:35,841 I had pets, I went to a good school. 322 00:19:35,925 --> 00:19:39,970 I was a thoughtful, educated, well brought up young person. 323 00:19:40,054 --> 00:19:41,806 There's no question about it. 324 00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:43,716 But... 325 00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:46,686 at the same time... 326 00:19:47,561 --> 00:19:51,732 I was living a vile, depraved, entirely parallel other life 327 00:19:51,816 --> 00:19:55,986 filled with debased violence and mayhem, and fear, and death. 328 00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:57,129 Well... 329 00:19:57,822 --> 00:20:02,618 it certainly seems to me like you had your own unusual... 330 00:20:03,994 --> 00:20:06,038 An unusual MO. Oh, sure. 331 00:20:06,122 --> 00:20:08,582 Well, I was gonna say... 332 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:10,292 signature. 333 00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:12,628 An oeuvre, if you will. 334 00:20:13,254 --> 00:20:14,755 You could study it. 335 00:20:16,924 --> 00:20:19,135 You can spell oeuvre, can't you, Holden? 336 00:20:21,554 --> 00:20:23,764 You know, there's a lot more like me. 337 00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:27,268 Do you think so? 338 00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:29,895 People that kill in sequence like you did? 339 00:20:29,979 --> 00:20:31,981 - Sequence? - One right after another. 340 00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:33,607 At regular intervals. 341 00:20:33,691 --> 00:20:35,234 I've just been calling them... 342 00:20:36,193 --> 00:20:37,820 "sequence killers"... 343 00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:39,655 if you will. 344 00:20:40,114 --> 00:20:42,700 - How many would you say? - Well... 345 00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:46,412 it would be a guess, 346 00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:48,956 but I'd say right now... 347 00:20:51,167 --> 00:20:53,878 North America, more than 35. 348 00:20:53,961 --> 00:20:55,004 Thirty-five? 349 00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:56,573 But you're never gonna find them, 350 00:20:56,598 --> 00:20:58,909 if they don't want you to. Not even close. 351 00:21:00,468 --> 00:21:01,802 That can't be right. 352 00:21:01,886 --> 00:21:05,097 Well, Holden, I'm not an expert. I'm not an authority. 353 00:21:05,681 --> 00:21:08,809 I'm just an extremely accomplished murderer 354 00:21:08,893 --> 00:21:12,646 who spent my adult life successfully evading capture... 355 00:21:13,689 --> 00:21:17,276 until I gave myself up because I despaired of ever being caught. 356 00:21:19,195 --> 00:21:20,780 So take it or leave it. 357 00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:23,491 What do you want from me? 358 00:21:26,744 --> 00:21:28,037 I have no idea. 359 00:21:28,829 --> 00:21:32,249 His oeuvre? What the fuck? He's Stanley Kubrick? 360 00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:34,668 He was extremely talkative. 361 00:21:34,752 --> 00:21:37,963 He likes talking to cops. He's lonely. He could do it all day. 362 00:21:38,047 --> 00:21:40,549 He's not some frenzied thrill killer, Bill. 363 00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:42,927 I think we need to face that. 364 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,680 He chopped off women's heads and had sex with their corpses. 365 00:21:46,764 --> 00:21:48,808 If that's not frenzied, I don't know what is. 366 00:21:48,891 --> 00:21:50,059 He is so articulate. 367 00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:54,605 He's meticulous and highly intelligent. 368 00:21:55,075 --> 00:21:57,103 Yeah, he meticulously chose small, 369 00:21:57,128 --> 00:21:59,418 young, female prey who couldn't fight back. 370 00:21:59,902 --> 00:22:01,028 Animal cunning. 371 00:22:01,111 --> 00:22:04,198 He's self-aware and objective. Isn't that highly unusual? 372 00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:05,881 He's saying everything you want to hear, 373 00:22:05,908 --> 00:22:08,285 just like he did with the shrinks in the institution. 374 00:22:08,369 --> 00:22:11,121 He knew just enough to talk his way out, then went hunting. 375 00:22:11,205 --> 00:22:12,440 Don't be stupid about this. 376 00:22:12,465 --> 00:22:14,107 What makes you so sure I'm being stupid? 377 00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:15,501 I know these fuckers. 378 00:22:15,584 --> 00:22:18,420 It's only a matter of time before he hits you up for privileges. 379 00:22:18,504 --> 00:22:20,325 Next, he's complaining to the warden... 380 00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:21,439 Come with me next weekend. 381 00:22:21,464 --> 00:22:24,802 - See for yourself. - No, I'm not gonna do that. 382 00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:26,470 You're just going to play golf? 383 00:22:27,304 --> 00:22:30,224 It helps me think clearly. You might want to try it. 384 00:22:32,935 --> 00:22:35,980 - Oh, yeah. Up a little. - Uh-huh. 385 00:22:38,232 --> 00:22:41,485 - Over a little. Left. - My left or your left? 386 00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:42,611 My left. 387 00:22:45,623 --> 00:22:46,699 This okay? 388 00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:48,242 It's fine. What's wrong? 389 00:22:48,325 --> 00:22:50,619 - You want a break? - Why would I want a break? 390 00:22:50,703 --> 00:22:52,621 - That's not how it works. - All right. 391 00:22:52,871 --> 00:22:56,125 You want me to throw in something? Play with your nipples? 392 00:22:56,208 --> 00:22:57,703 - Why? - Move it along. 393 00:22:57,789 --> 00:22:59,416 You're doing great. Just stop stopping. 394 00:22:59,441 --> 00:23:00,582 Okay. 395 00:23:03,841 --> 00:23:05,134 He knows more about lust murder 396 00:23:05,217 --> 00:23:07,511 than the whole FBI Behavioral Science Unit. 397 00:23:07,595 --> 00:23:10,514 - We should put him on the payroll. - Would the FBI ever do that? 398 00:23:10,598 --> 00:23:11,640 Doubtful. 399 00:23:11,724 --> 00:23:14,602 Everyone's freaked out that Berkowitz might sell his life story. 400 00:23:14,685 --> 00:23:17,438 New York State is moving to make that sort of thing illegal. 401 00:23:17,521 --> 00:23:19,607 It'd be awful for the families of the victims. 402 00:23:19,690 --> 00:23:21,317 - What can I get you? - Hi. 403 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,777 Uh, can I get two eggs over medium, 404 00:23:23,861 --> 00:23:26,947 home-fried potatoes, and wheat toast with grape jelly? 405 00:23:27,031 --> 00:23:28,866 - And for you? - Uh... 406 00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,557 - I'll just have an Ed salad sandwich... - A what? 407 00:23:31,616 --> 00:23:33,850 An egg salad sandwich. Thank you. 408 00:23:33,930 --> 00:23:35,450 Holden, you don't even like egg salad. 409 00:23:35,581 --> 00:23:38,334 - Thank you. - Right. Um... 410 00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,002 I'll just have a Denver omelet. 411 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:44,548 You've got mention-itis. You cannot stop mentioning him. 412 00:23:44,632 --> 00:23:47,426 Think of how much we can learn from a guy like Kemper. 413 00:23:48,177 --> 00:23:50,095 He called it a vocation. 414 00:23:50,099 --> 00:23:51,116 - Killing women? - Yeah. 415 00:23:51,180 --> 00:23:53,891 Jesus. How do you wrap your mind around that? 416 00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:56,435 Couldn't attract them. 417 00:23:56,518 --> 00:23:58,187 Didn't have the social skills. 418 00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:00,064 That would describe a lot of guys. 419 00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:02,983 Why does he hate women? 420 00:24:03,484 --> 00:24:04,818 I should ask. 421 00:24:04,902 --> 00:24:07,302 - But not outright. - No? 422 00:24:07,448 --> 00:24:08,917 He sounds like the kind of person 423 00:24:08,962 --> 00:24:10,787 who would tell you what you wanna hear. 424 00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:13,786 - You have to disarm him first. - You mean, like... 425 00:24:14,912 --> 00:24:17,748 - What? - Ask him questions about himself. 426 00:24:18,749 --> 00:24:21,877 Lean into him, listen intently. 427 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,713 - I do that. - Keep your arms uncrossed. 428 00:24:25,422 --> 00:24:27,466 Mirror his movements. 429 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,178 Encourage him to talk about the things he's excited about. 430 00:24:31,261 --> 00:24:33,180 Are these feminine wiles? 431 00:24:33,263 --> 00:24:35,474 Cross your legs in his direction. 432 00:24:36,642 --> 00:24:39,061 - Do you really do that? - But don't touch him. 433 00:24:39,937 --> 00:24:41,522 You want him to like you, 434 00:24:42,064 --> 00:24:44,650 but you don't want him to think you're gonna fuck him. 435 00:24:47,111 --> 00:24:50,030 Look at your face. 436 00:24:58,831 --> 00:24:59,873 Here's the thing. 437 00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:01,950 I spent five years as a brick agent 438 00:25:01,992 --> 00:25:03,793 and a couple of years at the academy. 439 00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:05,546 - I'm squeaky clean. - Oh. 440 00:25:05,629 --> 00:25:07,297 I'm Eliot Ness. I'm... 441 00:25:07,381 --> 00:25:09,425 You're Melvin Purvis, G-MAN. 442 00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:10,509 Exactly. 443 00:25:10,592 --> 00:25:12,386 And back then, no skirt in the FBI. 444 00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:14,263 - No women, just men. - Wow. 445 00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:19,017 Then I enroll in college, and suddenly, I am Warren fucking Beatty. 446 00:25:19,101 --> 00:25:21,228 - Wow. - Everything goes. 447 00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:22,771 - You take sugar? - No. 448 00:25:22,855 --> 00:25:24,314 - Cool. Milk? - Thank you. 449 00:25:24,398 --> 00:25:26,984 - You got it, man. - Suddenly it's disco and poppers, 450 00:25:27,067 --> 00:25:28,360 and fern bars. 451 00:25:28,444 --> 00:25:30,696 I am up to my neck in chicks. 452 00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,406 Pussy, pussy, pussy. I hear that. 453 00:25:32,489 --> 00:25:36,535 It turns out chicks do really dig a guy with a badge. 454 00:25:36,618 --> 00:25:39,163 "Gas, grass, or ass. Nobody rides for free." 455 00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:42,249 Next thing I know, I'm with a 24-year-old that I met in a bar. 456 00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:45,836 No woman has ever been so into me in my entire life. 457 00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:47,337 Don't brag. It's unbecoming. 458 00:25:47,421 --> 00:25:49,339 Oh, my God. I am so sorry. 459 00:25:49,423 --> 00:25:50,549 I'm kidding. 460 00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:52,250 Man... 461 00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:56,847 the things she comes up with in the sack. 462 00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:58,599 You gotta love that young pussy. 463 00:25:59,183 --> 00:26:01,143 I do. I really fucking do. 464 00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:03,332 You gotta make it with that young pussy 465 00:26:03,357 --> 00:26:05,620 real quick before it turns into Mom. 466 00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:09,226 Yeah. 467 00:26:11,779 --> 00:26:15,073 So you were a virgin up until then, that's what you're saying? 468 00:26:15,157 --> 00:26:18,285 - No, not at all. - Oh, you go over like you're a virgin. 469 00:26:19,161 --> 00:26:20,871 - What? - What's wrong with that? 470 00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:22,206 I was a virgin for years. 471 00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:25,334 Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just I'm... not. 472 00:26:25,751 --> 00:26:26,752 Uh-huh. 473 00:26:27,628 --> 00:26:30,464 This new girl, she take it up the ass? 474 00:26:33,509 --> 00:26:35,302 We haven't really discussed it. 475 00:26:35,385 --> 00:26:36,595 Ask her. 476 00:26:36,678 --> 00:26:39,973 An asshole will suck your cock right in, literally. 477 00:26:40,057 --> 00:26:41,683 It's like a hole that sucks. 478 00:26:41,767 --> 00:26:43,477 It's easy. 479 00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:47,731 But when you fuck somebody in the neck, it's entirely the opposite. 480 00:26:47,815 --> 00:26:51,652 It's nothing but resistance. It's really difficult. 481 00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:52,945 Let me. 482 00:26:53,028 --> 00:26:54,530 You feel this? 483 00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:56,615 Feel it. It's all muscle. 484 00:26:56,698 --> 00:26:58,325 Cartilaginous. 485 00:27:01,912 --> 00:27:03,288 Is this interesting? 486 00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:07,876 - Oh, yeah. - Because I can skip some of the detail. 487 00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:09,962 No, I'm here for the detail. 488 00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,798 A major college campus. 489 00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:16,635 It's like a giant candy store, you know what I mean. 490 00:27:16,718 --> 00:27:17,736 Right. 491 00:27:18,303 --> 00:27:23,934 Your, uh, your mom worked on campus at UCSC, right? 492 00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:26,061 Remind me again what she did. 493 00:27:29,064 --> 00:27:31,692 - Administrative assistant. - Right. 494 00:27:35,404 --> 00:27:38,824 That's all she lived for, man, her work and her precious coeds, 495 00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:40,909 whom she mothered relentlessly. 496 00:27:41,326 --> 00:27:43,829 Do you think that she neglected you for them? 497 00:27:43,912 --> 00:27:45,372 Put it this way, 498 00:27:45,873 --> 00:27:49,918 she had a very violently outspoken position on men. 499 00:27:51,253 --> 00:27:53,672 She had a failed marriage with my father. 500 00:27:53,755 --> 00:27:55,924 I looked a lot like him, so... 501 00:27:56,008 --> 00:27:57,509 You reminded her of him. 502 00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:03,432 Do you think you developed a dislike for young women as a result? 503 00:28:04,016 --> 00:28:05,976 As far as she was concerned, 504 00:28:06,602 --> 00:28:10,480 I was never going to end up with one of those girls 505 00:28:10,564 --> 00:28:12,858 because I was a fuckup and an embarrassment. 506 00:28:12,941 --> 00:28:15,027 - You were a failure in her eyes. - Look. 507 00:28:15,527 --> 00:28:19,573 My mother was a decent, upstanding, reasonable woman, 508 00:28:19,656 --> 00:28:21,909 but when it came to me, 509 00:28:21,992 --> 00:28:24,036 she had nothing but contempt, 510 00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:26,830 disappointment, and disdain. 511 00:28:28,874 --> 00:28:30,292 That must've been awful. 512 00:28:31,627 --> 00:28:33,003 Well, here's the thing. 513 00:28:37,633 --> 00:28:38,675 I'm listening. 514 00:28:42,137 --> 00:28:46,141 Women are born with this little hole between their legs... 515 00:28:47,059 --> 00:28:50,812 which every man on earth just wants to stick something into. 516 00:28:52,564 --> 00:28:54,149 And they're weaker than men, 517 00:28:55,108 --> 00:28:57,402 so they learn strategies. 518 00:28:57,486 --> 00:29:00,530 They deploy their minds and their sex, 519 00:29:00,614 --> 00:29:03,575 and they intuitively learn to humiliate. 520 00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:08,038 Did your mother humiliate you? 521 00:29:14,044 --> 00:29:15,103 Ed? 522 00:29:36,024 --> 00:29:38,402 Lust murder doesn't cut it. 523 00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:42,531 He did not stab, and rape, and decapitate Mom because he was aroused. 524 00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:44,449 He was conditioned to do it. 525 00:29:44,533 --> 00:29:46,952 - Did he say that? - As good as. 526 00:29:47,035 --> 00:29:48,203 It's schtick. 527 00:29:48,287 --> 00:29:50,205 He learned the vernacular in the institution. 528 00:29:50,289 --> 00:29:52,969 - He's sophisticated enough to use it. - No, that's not my instinct. 529 00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:55,156 Is it your instinct he was choosing words carefully 530 00:29:55,181 --> 00:29:56,295 or did he just spew it out? 531 00:29:56,296 --> 00:29:57,296 Very carefully. 532 00:29:57,321 --> 00:29:58,837 He's got you pegged. 533 00:29:58,883 --> 00:30:01,360 He's telling you what he's guessed you want to hear. 534 00:30:01,425 --> 00:30:04,428 - But why would I want to hear that? - Because you're you. 535 00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:06,722 You told him about your university education, 536 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,266 and your sassy girlfriend, and your sensitive character, 537 00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:11,226 and he tailored his bullshit to fit. 538 00:30:12,728 --> 00:30:15,397 - Why did you tell him that stuff? - To loosen him up. 539 00:30:16,565 --> 00:30:19,151 Why do you feel the need to tell him about your girlfriend? 540 00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:20,652 Just to get him talking. 541 00:30:20,736 --> 00:30:23,405 Holden, he's had seven years in a correctional facility. 542 00:30:23,488 --> 00:30:25,490 He's been practicing. Don't encourage him. 543 00:30:25,574 --> 00:30:27,734 - I was trying to disarm him. - You're a federal agent. 544 00:30:27,758 --> 00:30:30,495 Don't give him anything. He's your subject. Be objective. 545 00:30:30,579 --> 00:30:33,332 - I've gotta trust my instincts on this. - There's that word again. 546 00:30:33,415 --> 00:30:35,542 So in Fairfield, Iowa you were in the Dark Ages, 547 00:30:35,625 --> 00:30:38,795 and now suddenly, you have all these unimpeachable instincts? 548 00:30:39,254 --> 00:30:40,547 Well, it's been a process. 549 00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:43,091 Okay, look, there's no doubt whatever happened in there 550 00:30:43,175 --> 00:30:45,177 was a profound experience for you, 551 00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:47,846 but I need you to understand that whatever you think, 552 00:30:47,929 --> 00:30:52,351 there is a distinct possibility that he's manipulating you. 553 00:31:49,825 --> 00:31:51,159 It's not my fault. 554 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:25,735 Gentleman, I'm Detective Roy Carver. 555 00:32:25,819 --> 00:32:27,988 Listen, I was a little late for the presentation, 556 00:32:28,071 --> 00:32:29,364 but that was just great. 557 00:32:29,448 --> 00:32:31,700 - Well, thank you very much. - Glad to be of service. 558 00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:34,703 Listen, before you go, I was hoping I could ask you something. 559 00:32:34,786 --> 00:32:36,913 I know you're not just here to teach. 560 00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:40,597 - No, we really just teach, Roy. - Pretty much all we focus on. 561 00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:41,950 I was hoping I could get you guys 562 00:32:41,974 --> 00:32:44,030 to take a look at something a little, uh... 563 00:32:44,337 --> 00:32:45,355 unusual. 564 00:32:46,381 --> 00:32:47,924 Oh, sure thing. 565 00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:55,348 Her name's Rosemary Gonzales, 73 years old. 566 00:32:55,432 --> 00:32:58,727 Her husband died of cancer so she sold the family farm in Chico, 567 00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:01,354 moved to Sacramento to be closer to the grandkids. 568 00:33:02,981 --> 00:33:05,984 Two weeks ago, we find her beaten within an inch of her life 569 00:33:06,067 --> 00:33:07,527 in a doorway to her back porch. 570 00:33:07,986 --> 00:33:09,070 She hasn't been robbed. 571 00:33:09,154 --> 00:33:11,656 She's been groped and assaulted but not penetrated, 572 00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:14,826 and the little dog's throat's been cut. 573 00:33:16,746 --> 00:33:18,706 Was the dog killed because it was protecting her? 574 00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:20,123 Or for some other reason? 575 00:33:20,207 --> 00:33:22,334 That I don't know. But it's interesting. 576 00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:23,627 Why didn't he stab her? 577 00:33:24,628 --> 00:33:25,962 Didn't have the nerve? 578 00:33:26,046 --> 00:33:29,633 I don't think some Latino with a shiv got scared of a little old lady. 579 00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:32,469 Why do you say that? Why do you say "Latino" like that? 580 00:33:32,552 --> 00:33:34,346 That's the neighborhood, spics and blacks. 581 00:33:34,429 --> 00:33:36,723 Did she identify anybody of that ethnicity? 582 00:33:36,806 --> 00:33:40,018 No. She was hovering in and out of a coma for the past ten days. 583 00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:43,271 Now she's finally come around, she has no recollection whatsoever. 584 00:33:43,772 --> 00:33:45,565 You think it's about a little dog? 585 00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:48,235 Scottish Terriers can be loud. Their bark... 586 00:33:48,318 --> 00:33:50,487 - Could be annoying. - Listen... 587 00:33:51,530 --> 00:33:55,033 we need to know exactly how worried we need to be. 588 00:34:32,904 --> 00:34:35,782 My husband would've cried to see me like this. 589 00:34:36,449 --> 00:34:39,494 Me, I don't cry. I'm tough. 590 00:34:40,245 --> 00:34:43,248 But he was just like a baby. 591 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,543 It would've destroyed his faith in humanity. 592 00:34:48,628 --> 00:34:50,130 What did I ever do? 593 00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:53,466 Who would do such a thing? 594 00:34:55,051 --> 00:34:56,886 I never hurt a soul. 595 00:34:57,721 --> 00:34:59,598 I don't have any enemies. 596 00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:02,350 I don't dress like a whore. 597 00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,894 - I'm an old lady... - Está bien. 598 00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:08,315 Let me ask you something. 599 00:35:09,149 --> 00:35:11,026 Did your dog ever bite anyone? 600 00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:12,485 Never. 601 00:35:12,569 --> 00:35:15,739 Ever bother anyone by barking? Any complaints from neighbors? 602 00:35:15,822 --> 00:35:19,200 No. He was very well-behaved. 603 00:35:21,161 --> 00:35:24,414 - Who cuts the grass, Rosie? - Who helps you take care of the yard? 604 00:35:25,165 --> 00:35:27,667 I have all sorts of help. Kids mostly. 605 00:35:27,751 --> 00:35:28,768 Which kids? 606 00:35:29,461 --> 00:35:30,879 Just local kids. 607 00:35:31,379 --> 00:35:33,214 It's a very close community. 608 00:35:33,298 --> 00:35:36,134 And you didn't recognize your assailant? He wasn't familiar? 609 00:35:37,594 --> 00:35:39,220 I just don't remember. 610 00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:42,974 Do you have kids? 611 00:35:43,058 --> 00:35:44,059 Two daughters. 612 00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:45,810 Married? 613 00:35:46,436 --> 00:35:49,356 The eldest is divorced. Dios mío. 614 00:35:50,231 --> 00:35:52,442 The younger I don't see that often. 615 00:35:52,525 --> 00:35:54,110 Can you remember anything else? 616 00:35:54,235 --> 00:35:55,737 Was he big, little? 617 00:35:56,196 --> 00:35:59,991 Do you remember any moles, scars, tattoos, distinctive marks? 618 00:36:00,075 --> 00:36:01,993 I remember moonlight. 619 00:36:03,745 --> 00:36:04,788 And... 620 00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:09,626 I do remember a smell. 621 00:36:10,919 --> 00:36:12,170 What kind of smell? 622 00:36:12,754 --> 00:36:14,673 I don't know, he just... 623 00:36:16,341 --> 00:36:18,802 - He stank. - Like what? 624 00:36:18,885 --> 00:36:21,054 Grease or gasoline, fertilizer? 625 00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:22,222 Like a bum. 626 00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:24,599 Like somebody who needed to wash. 627 00:36:25,225 --> 00:36:28,520 Seventeen, eighteen-year-old high school kid, 628 00:36:28,603 --> 00:36:31,022 low self-esteem, hates authority, 629 00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:33,733 doesn't get along well with his parents. 630 00:36:34,192 --> 00:36:35,735 What, just some punk? 631 00:36:35,819 --> 00:36:37,779 Gets into a fight with his old man one night, 632 00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:42,575 maybe he gets a hold of a bottle of liquor and comes across the house, 633 00:36:42,659 --> 00:36:43,767 recognizes the place 634 00:36:43,792 --> 00:36:46,228 because he cut the grass there when he was younger. 635 00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:48,289 - Some neighborhood kid? - He goes inside. 636 00:36:48,957 --> 00:36:52,377 She doesn't recognize him, thinks he's broken in, and starts yelling. 637 00:36:52,836 --> 00:36:54,379 The fight gets physical. 638 00:36:54,462 --> 00:36:57,424 He's drunk, he beats the shit out of her. 639 00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:02,470 He knifes the dog because the dog is yapping its head off. 640 00:37:03,179 --> 00:37:04,305 And then he runs. 641 00:37:05,265 --> 00:37:07,976 Are you guys serious? A teenager? 642 00:37:08,059 --> 00:37:09,227 He has bad hygiene. 643 00:37:09,561 --> 00:37:13,148 Doesn't bathe because bathing is what his parents want. 644 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,067 Look, we got a lot of kids like that around here. 645 00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:20,488 But what kind of degenerate carves up a little dog? 646 00:37:20,572 --> 00:37:22,657 Maybe the kid saw the dog in the yard, 647 00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:24,501 decided to conduct a moonlight experiment 648 00:37:24,526 --> 00:37:26,397 with his Bowie knife, gets interrupted. 649 00:37:27,495 --> 00:37:30,206 A careful, considerate old lady would bring her dog in at night. 650 00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:33,668 She went outside with the dog because she heard something. 651 00:37:34,461 --> 00:37:35,545 Listen. 652 00:37:35,628 --> 00:37:37,213 It was a harvest moon. 653 00:37:38,715 --> 00:37:40,402 We have been tossing the idea around 654 00:37:40,427 --> 00:37:42,159 that maybe it's one of these, uh... 655 00:37:42,385 --> 00:37:44,220 you know, satanic deals. 656 00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:45,396 You know, like maybe the dog 657 00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:47,289 is some kind of ritual sacrifice or something. 658 00:37:49,142 --> 00:37:50,159 Check. 659 00:37:53,605 --> 00:37:55,648 You need to squeeze the neighborhood kids. 660 00:37:55,732 --> 00:37:56,941 One of them knows something. 661 00:37:57,025 --> 00:37:59,652 We had a kid like that, brought him in for questioning twice. 662 00:37:59,736 --> 00:38:00,779 Bring him in again. 663 00:38:00,862 --> 00:38:02,502 We're gonna get pushback from the family. 664 00:38:02,572 --> 00:38:04,157 His aunt works for the county. 665 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,202 - Then make it formal. - I'm probably gonna need a warrant. 666 00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:09,204 We might be able to help you with that. 667 00:38:16,336 --> 00:38:17,395 Fuck! 668 00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:23,176 Nancy's gonna kill me. We can't get a flight till Sunday. 669 00:38:27,013 --> 00:38:29,641 - Maybe this kid's like Kemper. - We have to get a room. 670 00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:32,811 I can take care of the room. We can turn this into an opportunity. 671 00:38:32,887 --> 00:38:34,571 It could help with the Gonzales case. 672 00:38:34,596 --> 00:38:36,129 I can't believe I'm stuck with you. 673 00:38:36,189 --> 00:38:38,066 - We can talk to Kemper. - No! 674 00:38:38,149 --> 00:38:40,193 - I'm gonna play golf. - Come with me. 675 00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:42,237 I'm not consulting with Ed Kemper. 676 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,656 Not to consult. Just background. 677 00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:46,282 When did his behavior escalate? 678 00:38:46,366 --> 00:38:48,446 You can't stay away from that motherfucker, can you? 679 00:38:48,493 --> 00:38:50,537 No, please. Don't say "motherfucker." 680 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,414 You know that he'll respond to your seniority. 681 00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:56,167 - You could really smoke him out. - No, not now. 682 00:38:56,793 --> 00:38:59,712 We're stuck here all weekend. What else are you gonna do? 683 00:39:01,089 --> 00:39:02,674 I said forget about it, man. 684 00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:18,314 So, you're the big boss, right? 685 00:39:18,398 --> 00:39:21,609 Well, I established the Behavioral Science Unit years ago, 686 00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:23,778 but Holden's come in with a lot of new ideas. 687 00:39:23,862 --> 00:39:27,323 So Holden's the intrepid rookie investigator? 688 00:39:27,407 --> 00:39:30,326 Bill taught me everything I know about criminal behavior. 689 00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:33,288 Is that right? Well, let me ask you something, Bill. 690 00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:35,999 What do you think about Joseph Wambaugh? 691 00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:38,751 He knows Joe. Right, Bill? 692 00:39:39,402 --> 00:39:40,484 Well... 693 00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:43,214 Actually, he based a lot of that stuff on Bill. 694 00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:46,843 - No shit. - Uh-huh. 695 00:39:46,926 --> 00:39:49,304 Not the, uh, stories, 696 00:39:49,387 --> 00:39:52,599 but the psychological insights and the vernacular. 697 00:39:52,682 --> 00:39:53,758 Yeah. 698 00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:55,768 That is fascinating. 699 00:39:56,269 --> 00:39:59,022 I sure would love to pick your brain sometime. 700 00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:00,985 Well, that's another life sentence right there. 701 00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:03,318 Maybe you could, uh... 702 00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:06,070 talk about your background a little bit with Bill. 703 00:40:06,654 --> 00:40:10,366 Maybe tell him the thing that you told me the other day 704 00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:11,659 about your mother. 705 00:40:13,953 --> 00:40:15,163 My mother. 706 00:40:18,291 --> 00:40:20,668 Well, you see, Bill, 707 00:40:20,752 --> 00:40:24,923 even as a child, I had kind of a rich fantasy life. 708 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,094 As a teenager, I began by cutting up inanimate objects. 709 00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:32,305 G.I. Joe. My sister's dolls. 710 00:40:32,388 --> 00:40:35,266 Ripping their heads off, cutting up the bodies. 711 00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:37,769 Mutilating them, if you will. 712 00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:40,605 You had fantasies of what, real women? 713 00:40:40,688 --> 00:40:41,731 Oh, yeah. 714 00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:45,860 And my mother would yell and scream at me, tell me I was sick. 715 00:40:45,944 --> 00:40:48,947 She thought I was going to do something hideous one day. 716 00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:50,657 What did she think you were gonna do? 717 00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:54,160 I guess rape my sister or something. 718 00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:56,871 This is when I was ten years old. 719 00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:59,157 Nice. 720 00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:01,417 Not exactly The Brady Bunch. 721 00:41:01,501 --> 00:41:03,181 Why do you think she thought this? 722 00:41:03,211 --> 00:41:04,895 Because she was fucking nuts. 723 00:41:04,929 --> 00:41:06,489 You didn't do anything to frighten her? 724 00:41:06,513 --> 00:41:08,001 She frightened me. 725 00:41:08,424 --> 00:41:12,095 She'd make me sleep on a dirty old mattress in the basement. 726 00:41:12,178 --> 00:41:14,889 Lock the door. Ten years old. 727 00:41:14,973 --> 00:41:17,433 So then it became dogs and cats, strangling them, 728 00:41:17,517 --> 00:41:19,894 burying them in the backyard. 729 00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:21,896 Hold on. Sorry. 730 00:41:25,233 --> 00:41:26,567 Just to vent. 731 00:41:27,735 --> 00:41:31,406 You know what I'm saying? Classic displacement activity. 732 00:41:31,489 --> 00:41:35,785 Because it was my retreat from the insanity of the world. 733 00:41:35,868 --> 00:41:37,954 - Then, you see... - Sorry. Wait a minute. 734 00:41:38,037 --> 00:41:39,038 Sorry, guys. 735 00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:45,294 Is that why your mother sent you away? 736 00:41:46,546 --> 00:41:49,173 In the end, I ran away to live with my father, 737 00:41:49,257 --> 00:41:51,050 but he didn't want me either. 738 00:41:51,134 --> 00:41:54,595 So they packed me off to live with my grandma. 739 00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:56,556 She thought I was a freak. 740 00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:57,890 Is that why you shot her? 741 00:41:58,433 --> 00:42:02,186 Well, they were both very controlling, aggressive, matriarchal women. 742 00:42:02,270 --> 00:42:04,689 - Matriarchal? - Female-centric. 743 00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,733 Get that down. That's a big antecedent. 744 00:42:07,233 --> 00:42:08,276 What happened after that? 745 00:42:09,152 --> 00:42:11,362 I was put in a fucking mental institution. 746 00:42:11,988 --> 00:42:13,072 I was 15. 747 00:42:13,156 --> 00:42:15,992 I was 21 years old when I came out. 748 00:42:16,075 --> 00:42:19,912 All those years when other kids were having their sexual revolution, 749 00:42:19,996 --> 00:42:21,748 I was locked in a room. 750 00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:24,146 You remember the whole flower power, 751 00:42:24,171 --> 00:42:26,959 college girls into love and peace? 752 00:42:28,337 --> 00:42:33,051 Physically, I wasn't impotent, but emotionally I was. 753 00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:39,057 Because of the way I was conditioned by Mom, right? Like you said. 754 00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:40,892 - Conditioned? - Right. 755 00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:43,394 You see, Bill, 756 00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:47,231 I knew a week before she died I was gonna kill her. 757 00:42:49,901 --> 00:42:54,739 She went out to a party, she got soused, she came home alone. 758 00:42:54,822 --> 00:42:58,159 I asked her how her evening went. She just looked at me. 759 00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:01,662 She said, "For seven years." 760 00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:04,588 She said, "I haven't had sex with a man" 761 00:43:04,617 --> 00:43:06,958 because of you, my murderous son." 762 00:43:12,465 --> 00:43:15,426 So I got a claw hammer and I beat her to death. 763 00:43:17,178 --> 00:43:18,513 Then I cut her head off. 764 00:43:23,476 --> 00:43:25,353 And I humiliated her. 765 00:43:29,899 --> 00:43:32,652 And I said, "There. Now you've had sex." 766 00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:40,201 If there's one thing I know, it's this: 767 00:43:41,911 --> 00:43:44,789 A mother should not scorn her own son. 768 00:43:45,957 --> 00:43:48,084 If a woman humiliates her little boy, 769 00:43:48,167 --> 00:43:52,588 he will become hostile, and violent, and debased. Period. 770 00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:04,888 Ladies and gentlemen, 771 00:44:04,913 --> 00:44:06,958 we've reached our cruising altitude... 772 00:44:07,103 --> 00:44:09,647 - I think we need to talk. - Now do you see? 773 00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:11,941 I need to speak to Shepard. Tell him what's going on. 774 00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:13,024 It's too early. 775 00:44:13,025 --> 00:44:15,027 The longer we wait, the worse it's gonna be. 776 00:44:15,111 --> 00:44:18,114 - We'll be drowned in red tape. - And there's a reason for that. 777 00:44:18,197 --> 00:44:21,367 The FBI is a glacial bureaucracy, but it's highly effective. 778 00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:23,911 Kemper's in lockdown, what's he gonna do? 779 00:44:23,995 --> 00:44:26,247 Kemper is a gigantic blabbermouth. 780 00:44:26,330 --> 00:44:28,124 He's friends with all the prison guards. 781 00:44:28,207 --> 00:44:29,652 A federal agent is meeting with him, 782 00:44:29,677 --> 00:44:31,401 you think that hasn't reached the warden? 783 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,339 A couple of months, that's all I need. 784 00:44:35,423 --> 00:44:37,717 No. Because if we get censured, 785 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,469 we're off work two weeks minimum, no appeal. 786 00:44:40,553 --> 00:44:42,930 And you can kiss goodbye to the Gonzales case. 787 00:44:43,014 --> 00:44:44,640 They'll never catch that guy. 788 00:44:50,313 --> 00:44:52,857 Did you tell a detective in Sacramento you would intercede 789 00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:55,651 with the district attorney on behalf of the FBI? 790 00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,280 Some DA called me and asked why I had two agents in Sacramento. 791 00:44:59,363 --> 00:45:01,574 "Two goons," his exact words. 792 00:45:01,657 --> 00:45:02,909 It's a strange case. 793 00:45:02,992 --> 00:45:05,703 The locals were struggling. We were trying to help figure a way forward. 794 00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:07,246 What were you thinking? 795 00:45:07,330 --> 00:45:09,165 At the time, we deemed this of great urgency. 796 00:45:09,248 --> 00:45:10,583 The circumstances were unusual. 797 00:45:10,666 --> 00:45:13,586 Assault and battery? Since when does the FBI consult on that? 798 00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:14,712 Not even homicide. 799 00:45:14,795 --> 00:45:16,130 Unless you count a dog. 800 00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,758 Bill, the past three years I've heard you complain 801 00:45:18,801 --> 00:45:20,801 about how overworked you are with the Road School. 802 00:45:20,825 --> 00:45:21,928 I gave you your assistant, 803 00:45:22,011 --> 00:45:24,305 and this is how you choose to spend your time? 804 00:45:25,681 --> 00:45:28,225 I trust you understand my position on this. 805 00:45:29,852 --> 00:45:32,396 Is there anything else you want to tell me? 806 00:45:41,447 --> 00:45:44,533 I get back on Tuesday, if you want to pick me up from the airport. 807 00:45:44,617 --> 00:45:45,743 Sure, I'd love to. 808 00:45:46,744 --> 00:45:49,580 - You should come with me sometime. - To Detroit? 809 00:45:50,498 --> 00:45:53,334 See your old stomping grounds. Meet my mom. 810 00:45:55,086 --> 00:45:56,446 Okay, good to know where we're at. 811 00:45:56,504 --> 00:45:59,507 - No, I would love to meet your mom. - I said sometime. 812 00:45:59,590 --> 00:46:01,759 No, actually, it's something I would really enjoy. 813 00:46:01,842 --> 00:46:03,427 I meant eventually. 814 00:46:03,511 --> 00:46:05,846 I'm sure she's really, really lovely. 815 00:46:06,430 --> 00:46:08,557 Actually, she's kind of a bitch, 816 00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,310 especially when it comes to people I'm dating. 817 00:46:11,394 --> 00:46:12,428 Really? 818 00:46:12,937 --> 00:46:14,855 But... I like you. 819 00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:18,359 I might give you the secret to win her over. 820 00:46:20,528 --> 00:46:21,529 What might that be? 821 00:46:21,612 --> 00:46:23,147 Well, Mom doesn't care 822 00:46:23,172 --> 00:46:25,454 what kind of music you like, what kind of job you have, 823 00:46:25,479 --> 00:46:27,064 what kind of car you drive. 824 00:46:27,576 --> 00:46:30,955 Instead, she'll ask you about your mother. 825 00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:34,041 It'll seem like a perfectly innocent question, 826 00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:36,210 but she'll be watching you closely. 827 00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:39,880 If she thinks you love and respect your mom, 828 00:46:40,548 --> 00:46:43,259 she'll know that you'll treat her daughter the same way. 829 00:46:46,053 --> 00:46:47,388 That's actually shrewd. 830 00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:50,725 hair group. It can't do anything about the hair... 831 00:46:50,808 --> 00:46:51,934 So... 832 00:46:53,019 --> 00:46:54,270 do you like your mom? 833 00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:57,857 I do. 834 00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:00,401 She's someone I really enjoy talking to. 835 00:47:00,985 --> 00:47:03,863 I knew it. I knew you were a momma's boy. 836 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,368 You should just come with me tomorrow. You've already passed the test. 837 00:47:09,827 --> 00:47:11,495 I couldn't even if I wanted to. 838 00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,165 Shepard doesn't want us leaving town. 839 00:47:14,248 --> 00:47:15,666 Why? What's happened? 840 00:47:16,167 --> 00:47:17,460 We... Well... 841 00:47:18,085 --> 00:47:19,103 I... 842 00:47:19,754 --> 00:47:21,255 really fucked up. 843 00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,632 Ooh. You grounded? 844 00:47:28,095 --> 00:47:30,806 When are they gonna start taking this whole thing seriously? 845 00:48:00,753 --> 00:48:02,421 - Hi. - Hi. 846 00:48:12,014 --> 00:48:15,518 - How do you know where I live? - Personnel gave me your address. 847 00:48:25,903 --> 00:48:27,154 Let's go back to Shepard. 848 00:48:27,848 --> 00:48:30,008 Tell him about Kemper, tell him what we've been doing. 849 00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:32,743 - You think he'll listen now? - Let's make it official. 850 00:48:32,827 --> 00:48:35,079 You don't want to wait till Sacramento blows over? 851 00:48:35,162 --> 00:48:37,665 No, I want to go back to Sacramento and fix it. 852 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,543 If we fix it, Shepard might give us what we want. 853 00:48:42,211 --> 00:48:44,672 He's not stupid. He'll have to listen. 854 00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:47,049 Are you out of your fucking minds? 855 00:48:47,133 --> 00:48:48,843 You interviewed Edmund Kemper? 856 00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:51,011 Not so much interviewed. More like a conversation. 857 00:48:51,095 --> 00:48:53,889 He said interesting things that turned out to be really useful. 858 00:48:53,973 --> 00:48:55,724 - What the fuck? - I just had this idea... 859 00:48:55,808 --> 00:48:58,060 I don't want to hear your idea. I'm sick of your ideas. 860 00:48:58,144 --> 00:49:00,688 It is not our job to commiserate with these people. 861 00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:03,607 It is our job to electrocute them. How long has this been going on? 862 00:49:03,691 --> 00:49:04,971 Just when we were in Sacramento. 863 00:49:04,995 --> 00:49:07,378 Sir... the conversations with Kemper shed light 864 00:49:07,403 --> 00:49:09,123 on things we've been exploring in the unit. 865 00:49:09,155 --> 00:49:11,635 There's a correlation with what we're finding at crime scenes. 866 00:49:11,659 --> 00:49:12,908 It proves that we're on track. 867 00:49:12,992 --> 00:49:14,857 Proof the Federal Bureau of Investigation 868 00:49:14,882 --> 00:49:16,436 is on track after all these years? 869 00:49:16,495 --> 00:49:19,081 Well, golly, what a relief. I am so pleased for us. 870 00:49:19,165 --> 00:49:21,292 - We're pleased too. - Don't smart-mouth me, Holden! 871 00:49:21,375 --> 00:49:24,461 You fucked up the Gonzales situation, pissed off the Sacramento DA, 872 00:49:24,545 --> 00:49:27,214 and you've been interviewing lifers in the state penitentiary. 873 00:49:27,298 --> 00:49:30,719 Sir, the insights during these visits may help us identify 874 00:49:30,792 --> 00:49:32,168 the person responsible for the attacks 875 00:49:32,192 --> 00:49:33,512 in Sacramento and prevent others. 876 00:49:33,536 --> 00:49:36,056 Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Here's what it is. Burn your notes. 877 00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:37,645 Don't speak to me about this anymore. 878 00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:39,417 Don't put it in any reports. You're done. 879 00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:40,519 Excuse me, sir. 880 00:49:41,729 --> 00:49:44,565 I truly believe there is a vein here that needs to be mined. 881 00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:47,234 Okay, kiddo. You're looking down the barrel. 882 00:49:47,735 --> 00:49:50,613 Three whole bags: Censure, suspension, transfer. 883 00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:06,754 Pardon me. 884 00:50:08,297 --> 00:50:11,383 Sir, permit me to speak. I've been doing this shit for seven years. 885 00:50:11,467 --> 00:50:13,907 I trained Holden because he was transferred to my department. 886 00:50:13,969 --> 00:50:15,763 He knows his criminal psychology. 887 00:50:15,846 --> 00:50:17,973 He's done his homework, worked his butt off, 888 00:50:18,057 --> 00:50:19,497 and now I think he's onto something. 889 00:50:19,558 --> 00:50:21,727 Onto what? He made friends with the Coed Killer. 890 00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:24,271 If this is going to work, we need to talk to more subjects. 891 00:50:24,355 --> 00:50:27,233 More? No! What's next, Charles Manson? When's he booked for? 892 00:50:27,316 --> 00:50:28,943 We were thinking June. 893 00:50:29,652 --> 00:50:30,736 I think it's right. 894 00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:32,571 We need to use whatever resource... 895 00:50:32,655 --> 00:50:34,782 Resource, my ass! What's the matter, bored with golf? 896 00:50:34,865 --> 00:50:37,534 California jails are full of thrill killers and lust murderers. 897 00:50:37,625 --> 00:50:39,306 And we put them there, that's our job. 898 00:50:39,331 --> 00:50:40,568 Dying and rotting on the vine. 899 00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:43,123 Cry me a river, Holden. All the wasted potential. 900 00:50:43,207 --> 00:50:44,333 It is wasted potential, sir. 901 00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:46,502 - We could be using these people. - Using how? 902 00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:48,712 - Their knowledge and insight. - Of what? 903 00:50:48,796 --> 00:50:49,981 - Themselves. - Whoselves? 904 00:50:50,005 --> 00:50:51,485 Then we know what we're talking about 905 00:50:51,509 --> 00:50:53,251 when we speak to other law enforcement. 906 00:50:53,282 --> 00:50:55,994 - Can you make him shut up? - I have not been able to, sir. 907 00:50:56,845 --> 00:51:00,474 How do we get ahead of crazy if we don't know how crazy thinks? 908 00:51:10,442 --> 00:51:11,902 I like you, Bill. 909 00:51:12,528 --> 00:51:14,989 I don't particularly like him, but I like you. 910 00:51:17,783 --> 00:51:20,244 Okay, you may continue with your little sideshow. 911 00:51:20,327 --> 00:51:22,371 However, no one can know about it. Clear? 912 00:51:23,205 --> 00:51:24,456 You will relocate yourselves 913 00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:27,001 to the basement beneath Behavioral Sciences, 914 00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:29,211 reporting directly and exclusively to me. 915 00:51:29,295 --> 00:51:30,921 The basement? I'm 44 years old. 916 00:51:31,005 --> 00:51:34,258 You may dedicate ten hours of your 50-hour work week to this. 917 00:51:34,341 --> 00:51:36,261 If I deem any aspect of it to be unwarranted, 918 00:51:36,286 --> 00:51:37,903 unnecessary, or unsavory, 919 00:51:37,928 --> 00:51:40,097 I will end it. Do you both understand? 920 00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:41,198 Yes. 921 00:51:42,266 --> 00:51:43,283 And thank you, sir. 922 00:51:44,018 --> 00:51:45,144 Thank you, sir. 923 00:53:11,399 --> 00:53:14,721 synced & corrected by PopcornAWH www.addic7ed.com