1 00:01:08,986 --> 00:01:11,488 Oh! 2 00:01:11,572 --> 00:01:13,332 I didn't realize you were still in the house. 3 00:01:13,356 --> 00:01:15,158 I'm sorry to startle you. 4 00:01:15,242 --> 00:01:16,410 Here's the estimate. 5 00:01:17,828 --> 00:01:19,037 House looks good. 6 00:01:19,121 --> 00:01:21,665 Can't think you need much beyond door and window sensors. 7 00:01:21,748 --> 00:01:23,834 I included in the cost three keypads. 8 00:01:25,043 --> 00:01:26,628 My husband wondered, 9 00:01:26,712 --> 00:01:29,172 would you ever just sell the stickers for the windows 10 00:01:29,256 --> 00:01:31,383 and a sign for the front lawn? 11 00:01:34,344 --> 00:01:35,944 Signs come with the sensors, I'm afraid. 12 00:01:36,013 --> 00:01:38,598 Of course they do. That makes sense. 13 00:03:54,568 --> 00:03:56,236 - Monte Rissell. - Monte Rissell. 14 00:03:56,695 --> 00:03:57,988 Falls Church, Virginia. 15 00:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,365 They sentenced him a few weeks ago. 16 00:04:00,449 --> 00:04:03,285 Five victims, all women, raped and murdered. 17 00:04:03,368 --> 00:04:04,411 Method? 18 00:04:04,494 --> 00:04:06,554 First and last victim were beaten and then drowned. 19 00:04:06,579 --> 00:04:08,147 Middle three stabbed. 20 00:04:08,206 --> 00:04:10,834 - I thought one of them was shot, no? - No. 21 00:04:31,229 --> 00:04:35,275 Virginia State Penitentiary. Monte Ralph Rissell. 22 00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:51,374 Monte Rissell. 23 00:04:53,877 --> 00:04:55,587 - Why don't you have a seat? - Monte. 24 00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:57,672 Hey, you guys need me for any of this? 25 00:04:57,756 --> 00:05:00,091 No, thank you. We'd prefer to talk with you alone. 26 00:05:02,260 --> 00:05:04,346 Behave yourself, Rissell. Move. 27 00:05:06,348 --> 00:05:08,975 My name's Bill Tench. This is my partner, Holden Ford. 28 00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:11,356 We're from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's 29 00:05:11,380 --> 00:05:12,840 Behavioral Science Unit. 30 00:05:13,146 --> 00:05:14,295 Scientists? 31 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,446 We're from the Behavioral Science Unit. 32 00:05:16,817 --> 00:05:18,026 We're doing research. 33 00:05:18,109 --> 00:05:20,695 Interviewing... men like you. 34 00:05:22,322 --> 00:05:23,532 Men like me? 35 00:05:23,615 --> 00:05:25,534 Murderers with multiple victims. 36 00:05:25,617 --> 00:05:27,702 To better understand why you do what you do. 37 00:05:30,038 --> 00:05:31,081 I'd like to know, too. 38 00:05:40,298 --> 00:05:42,926 - You think this might help? - Help with what? 39 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:45,679 Find a cure. 40 00:05:47,013 --> 00:05:48,181 No idea. 41 00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:57,482 Think I could get some Big Red? 42 00:05:58,608 --> 00:05:59,776 "Big Red"? 43 00:06:00,402 --> 00:06:01,653 Pop. 44 00:06:01,736 --> 00:06:03,071 You know, like, soda. 45 00:06:04,322 --> 00:06:06,116 Used to have it when I was a kid. 46 00:06:07,158 --> 00:06:08,827 - I always loved Big Red. - Um... 47 00:06:09,327 --> 00:06:11,955 - We'll see what we can do. - That'll depend on the insights. 48 00:06:13,123 --> 00:06:14,666 I can't get stuff like that in here. 49 00:06:14,749 --> 00:06:16,429 What do you say we get down to brass tacks? 50 00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:18,503 What do you want to know? 51 00:06:22,424 --> 00:06:24,301 Why I raped those girls in Florida? 52 00:06:24,718 --> 00:06:26,886 For starters, how did you choose your victims? 53 00:06:26,970 --> 00:06:27,970 Victims? 54 00:06:29,598 --> 00:06:30,765 That doesn't sound good. 55 00:06:31,558 --> 00:06:32,892 No, it doesn't. 56 00:06:35,478 --> 00:06:38,565 How many other... "men like me" are you talking to? 57 00:06:38,648 --> 00:06:39,816 Quite a few, Monte. 58 00:06:40,734 --> 00:06:41,985 They all talk to you? 59 00:06:43,903 --> 00:06:46,323 It's... early days. 60 00:06:46,406 --> 00:06:47,490 Hmm... 61 00:06:49,618 --> 00:06:52,018 - Really think you can get some Big Red? - Look at me, Monte. 62 00:06:52,078 --> 00:06:53,663 Let's stay on track. 63 00:06:55,707 --> 00:06:56,750 You know what? 64 00:06:57,709 --> 00:07:00,086 - I don't think I'm interested. - Fine. 65 00:07:01,046 --> 00:07:03,757 You want to diddle around, we'll walk out of here. 66 00:07:04,716 --> 00:07:09,429 We'll go have a nice, leisurely lunch wherever the fuck we want, 67 00:07:10,555 --> 00:07:13,516 and then take the picturesque drive back to Quantico. 68 00:07:15,518 --> 00:07:17,145 What's the rest of your day look like? 69 00:07:19,272 --> 00:07:22,734 What my partner's too polite to say is, we're talking to men like you 70 00:07:22,817 --> 00:07:23,897 because we can't understand 71 00:07:23,921 --> 00:07:26,446 how someone could fuck up their life so completely 72 00:07:26,529 --> 00:07:28,323 before he's barely old enough to vote. 73 00:07:30,700 --> 00:07:31,743 Okay. 74 00:07:35,872 --> 00:07:38,083 I first got into trouble at 14. 75 00:07:39,084 --> 00:07:41,419 They sent me to Florida. This, uh... 76 00:07:41,503 --> 00:07:44,255 "juvenile facility." 77 00:07:45,548 --> 00:07:48,301 Doctors watching over me all the time. 78 00:07:51,429 --> 00:07:54,683 I had four girls while I was under observation. 79 00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:57,185 But you didn't kill those girls in Florida, that came later. 80 00:07:57,268 --> 00:08:00,438 What was different when you came back from the hospital? What changed? 81 00:08:01,022 --> 00:08:02,022 Hmm... 82 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:05,068 Let's see. 83 00:08:06,069 --> 00:08:07,404 They let me out. 84 00:08:08,238 --> 00:08:09,906 I come back up here, 85 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:12,325 get myself a job, a girlfriend. 86 00:08:12,826 --> 00:08:15,453 Girlfriend's a year ahead, she goes off to state college, 87 00:08:15,537 --> 00:08:18,581 but, you know, we keep in touch, we write. 88 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:21,751 You're taping it, man. 89 00:08:21,835 --> 00:08:24,045 Taking notes helps with transcription. 90 00:08:24,129 --> 00:08:26,589 You were saying? Back in school, a free man... 91 00:08:26,673 --> 00:08:28,466 Not free, no, sir. 92 00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:32,220 Probation, counseling, therapy. 93 00:08:33,555 --> 00:08:35,432 I gotta keep checking in or they send me back. 94 00:08:35,515 --> 00:08:37,350 But you got yourself a girlfriend... 95 00:08:37,892 --> 00:08:38,892 Do I, though? 96 00:08:40,186 --> 00:08:41,479 You know chicks. 97 00:08:42,272 --> 00:08:43,940 She sends me a letter. 98 00:08:44,024 --> 00:08:47,360 Tells me, shocker, there's all these guys up at school, you know. 99 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:48,486 There's all this, uh... 100 00:08:52,198 --> 00:08:56,036 She tells me, in so many words, she wants to ball other guys. 101 00:08:57,829 --> 00:08:59,664 What am I supposed to do with that? 102 00:09:00,373 --> 00:09:04,210 I hop in the car, gotta see it for myself, and what do you know, 103 00:09:04,294 --> 00:09:06,046 there she is, making out with some dork. 104 00:09:08,590 --> 00:09:09,966 What a dumbshit, right? 105 00:09:10,925 --> 00:09:11,925 Chicks. 106 00:09:13,303 --> 00:09:14,512 What can you do? 107 00:09:15,305 --> 00:09:18,433 You can't live with them. 108 00:09:20,518 --> 00:09:22,520 I'll tell you what you can fucking do. 109 00:09:23,354 --> 00:09:25,982 I get some beer, because I'm fucking angry, 110 00:09:26,441 --> 00:09:27,817 I have some weed, 111 00:09:28,359 --> 00:09:30,904 and I'm smoking, and thinking, 112 00:09:30,987 --> 00:09:34,324 and driving, and drinking, and then... 113 00:09:36,201 --> 00:09:37,452 Then I'm back at my apartment, 114 00:09:38,328 --> 00:09:39,871 in the parking lot, 115 00:09:39,954 --> 00:09:41,915 no idea how I got there. 116 00:09:43,541 --> 00:09:45,251 A car pulls into the lot. 117 00:09:45,794 --> 00:09:49,672 Girl on her own, maybe 20, 25. 118 00:09:51,007 --> 00:09:52,926 It's got to be four in the morning. 119 00:09:54,636 --> 00:09:55,637 It's like... 120 00:09:56,179 --> 00:09:58,014 the idea of doing it 121 00:09:59,516 --> 00:10:01,601 pops in your head like a... 122 00:10:05,355 --> 00:10:07,649 Like a sneeze, you know what I mean? 123 00:10:08,817 --> 00:10:11,486 I hop out the car, tap on the window, 124 00:10:11,986 --> 00:10:13,196 pull the gun, 125 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,115 drag her into the woods, 126 00:10:15,198 --> 00:10:18,451 rip her fucking panties off, hike up her skirt. 127 00:10:18,535 --> 00:10:21,663 "Oh, yeah, give it to me, baby! I want it, I'm so horny." 128 00:10:21,746 --> 00:10:23,832 I'm trying to rape her, but she won't shut up. 129 00:10:23,915 --> 00:10:26,042 She takes off screaming, 130 00:10:26,126 --> 00:10:28,253 runs through the parking lot, down a ravine. 131 00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:31,297 You know, she's stronger than me, but I'm fast. 132 00:10:31,881 --> 00:10:34,843 I catch up to her. I get her in a headlock. 133 00:10:34,926 --> 00:10:36,136 I choke her. 134 00:10:36,219 --> 00:10:38,152 We go rolling down the hill into a stream. 135 00:10:38,177 --> 00:10:40,497 The whole thing is fucking chaos. 136 00:10:40,557 --> 00:10:42,475 I smash her head against a rock, 137 00:10:43,101 --> 00:10:44,602 hold her underwater... 138 00:10:47,021 --> 00:10:48,398 and that's that. 139 00:10:50,316 --> 00:10:51,484 No more drama. 140 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:55,822 You had a gun, why not use it? 141 00:10:57,615 --> 00:10:59,242 I wanted to cool her off. 142 00:10:59,325 --> 00:11:00,577 Do you think... Pardon me. 143 00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:04,873 Do you think it would've ended differently if she hadn't... 144 00:11:06,207 --> 00:11:08,585 - Like, if she wasn't... - Wasn't what? 145 00:11:08,668 --> 00:11:09,752 A fucking prostitute? 146 00:11:11,546 --> 00:11:13,423 Yeah, could be. Could be. 147 00:11:15,091 --> 00:11:17,385 Your science buddy might have something there. 148 00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:24,017 Second time, this blonde chick, she will not stop with the questions. 149 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:26,895 I have her driving at gunpoint, and she's like, 150 00:11:26,978 --> 00:11:29,731 "Why are you doing this? Don't you have a girlfriend? 151 00:11:29,814 --> 00:11:32,358 What are you planning to do? Why me?" 152 00:11:32,442 --> 00:11:33,693 Is that why you stabbed her? 153 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,403 I had to. 154 00:11:36,487 --> 00:11:37,822 Shut her the fuck up. 155 00:11:37,906 --> 00:11:40,491 Then you drove around for hours in her car. 156 00:11:42,577 --> 00:11:43,577 Yeah. 157 00:11:44,454 --> 00:11:48,541 By the third girl, you could say I had, uh... perfected the routine. 158 00:11:48,625 --> 00:11:49,918 You stabbed her, too? 159 00:11:50,418 --> 00:11:51,544 Yeah. 160 00:11:54,297 --> 00:11:55,924 I stabbed her so many times. 161 00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:57,967 Yeesh... 162 00:11:58,843 --> 00:12:01,137 I did let one of 'em go, though. 163 00:12:04,057 --> 00:12:05,057 Yeah. 164 00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:09,145 We're in the car, I'm getting ready, she has no idea. 165 00:12:09,938 --> 00:12:13,024 All of a sudden she starts crying, out of nowhere. 166 00:12:13,107 --> 00:12:16,194 Tells me her daddy's dying... Cancer. 167 00:12:19,906 --> 00:12:21,491 My brother had cancer. 168 00:12:22,784 --> 00:12:24,243 Cancer. It's, uh... 169 00:12:24,953 --> 00:12:26,162 It's a bitch, man. 170 00:12:27,914 --> 00:12:29,666 Yeah, it's hard on a human being. 171 00:12:30,249 --> 00:12:31,626 So I let her go. 172 00:12:32,794 --> 00:12:34,087 It's, uh... 173 00:12:36,172 --> 00:12:39,592 - It's a weird feeling, man. - What's a weird feeling, Monte? 174 00:12:39,676 --> 00:12:40,676 Um... 175 00:12:41,803 --> 00:12:43,221 How do I put it? 176 00:12:44,722 --> 00:12:46,975 - Showing mercy. - What? 177 00:12:47,058 --> 00:12:50,561 Come on, kid. You don't expect us to buy your mercy horseshit. 178 00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:53,064 I think what Agent Tench means is... 179 00:12:53,147 --> 00:12:55,358 I think I've had enough science for one day. 180 00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:58,695 Throat's a little dry. 181 00:13:33,010 --> 00:13:34,364 Maybe next time you should be careful... 182 00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:35,484 Holden. 183 00:13:35,523 --> 00:13:38,151 - I didn't say anything. - You don't have to. I get it. 184 00:13:38,234 --> 00:13:40,361 - Let's move on. - I wasn't going to reprimand you. 185 00:13:40,445 --> 00:13:41,738 I hope not. 186 00:13:43,031 --> 00:13:44,407 Okay, we're moving on. 187 00:13:58,273 --> 00:13:59,273 Here's the thing. 188 00:13:59,297 --> 00:14:00,845 Monte Rissell danced around a bunch 189 00:14:00,870 --> 00:14:02,407 of psychiatrists when he was a kid. 190 00:14:02,467 --> 00:14:04,343 Did the same thing when he was on parole. 191 00:14:04,427 --> 00:14:06,596 He's an Olympic-class bullshitter. 192 00:14:07,138 --> 00:14:09,098 Why do we think he's being honest with us? 193 00:14:09,182 --> 00:14:12,727 But we don't think he's being completely honest. Do we? 194 00:14:13,728 --> 00:14:17,148 We just need to extract what's useful and discard the rest. 195 00:14:17,231 --> 00:14:19,150 So my mistake with Rissell was what? 196 00:14:27,241 --> 00:14:29,744 - You okay? - Yeah. 197 00:14:33,247 --> 00:14:34,247 Fuck! 198 00:14:34,374 --> 00:14:37,627 Jesus Christ! What the fuck's the matter with you? 199 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:39,295 What were you doing, 80, 100? 200 00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,547 - You turned without looking! - You were speeding! 201 00:14:41,572 --> 00:14:42,911 Doesn't matter! I had the right of way! 202 00:14:42,936 --> 00:14:43,951 Doesn't matter? 203 00:14:43,975 --> 00:14:46,052 - That's the law, buddy. - The law? 204 00:14:46,135 --> 00:14:48,805 - No. Here's the fucking law, pal! - You can't do that. 205 00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:49,928 I'm gonna call the police! 206 00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:52,183 Stay away from me, man! 207 00:14:54,685 --> 00:14:56,104 Unbelievable! 208 00:14:56,187 --> 00:14:58,398 You fucking moron. 209 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,736 You sure you're all right? 210 00:15:19,419 --> 00:15:23,047 No, I get it. You got a lot going on. It's a lot of pressure. 211 00:15:24,841 --> 00:15:26,342 I completely understand. 212 00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:29,887 Let me talk to Bill and I'll call you back. 213 00:15:39,188 --> 00:15:40,356 Is that for me? 214 00:15:41,441 --> 00:15:43,359 Thanks. Debbie says hi. 215 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,282 It's fine. As soon as class is over, she'll come down. 216 00:15:50,741 --> 00:15:52,512 She says she'd rather us get a room 217 00:15:52,537 --> 00:15:54,317 so she can pick us up in the morning. 218 00:15:56,956 --> 00:15:58,124 I'm a little ticked off. 219 00:15:58,207 --> 00:16:00,168 I get Debbie doesn't want to do all that driving, 220 00:16:00,251 --> 00:16:02,670 but we have a situation here. I'm asking her for help. 221 00:16:04,046 --> 00:16:06,841 Okay, she's got midterms and that's on her mind, but... 222 00:16:10,428 --> 00:16:11,721 Why am I so upset? 223 00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:16,058 Maybe 'cause she can't drop everything when you call. 224 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:20,021 Because she doesn't want to. 225 00:16:23,441 --> 00:16:24,484 Here you go. 226 00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:29,322 - One more, please. - Yes, sir. 227 00:16:29,947 --> 00:16:31,324 You want to call Nancy? 228 00:16:45,838 --> 00:16:47,006 Are you okay? 229 00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:50,760 Or we could just eat. 230 00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:57,725 I didn't see it coming, Holden. 231 00:16:58,851 --> 00:17:01,771 You could've been killed, and I didn't see it coming. 232 00:17:07,318 --> 00:17:09,237 It's one thing if it's the job. 233 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,198 But some fucking Pinto comes shooting out of nowhere... 234 00:17:13,741 --> 00:17:15,284 I think if I called Nancy, 235 00:17:15,826 --> 00:17:17,203 if I heard her voice, 236 00:17:18,788 --> 00:17:19,997 I'd just lose it. 237 00:17:25,086 --> 00:17:26,629 You know, we adopted a boy... 238 00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:29,215 three years ago. 239 00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:31,217 He's six now. 240 00:17:34,053 --> 00:17:35,721 Nancy always wanted a family. 241 00:17:36,973 --> 00:17:38,474 And I guess I did, too. 242 00:17:41,143 --> 00:17:44,146 But we can't have kids of our own, so... 243 00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:46,816 It's not going well. 244 00:17:48,568 --> 00:17:50,111 He's a beautiful boy. 245 00:17:52,238 --> 00:17:56,075 At first, I thought he was just quiet, you know, a quiet baby, 246 00:17:56,158 --> 00:17:57,493 nothing wrong with that. 247 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,413 He can speak, 248 00:18:02,331 --> 00:18:03,457 he just won't. 249 00:18:06,252 --> 00:18:08,170 I feel like we're failing him somehow. 250 00:18:11,048 --> 00:18:12,174 I'm sure you're not. 251 00:18:13,342 --> 00:18:15,177 Maybe he was like this before. 252 00:18:16,679 --> 00:18:17,805 But it's a real strain. 253 00:18:20,016 --> 00:18:22,977 It's supposed to be this great thing, having a son. 254 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:24,060 God, Bill. 255 00:18:25,146 --> 00:18:27,148 I'm sorry to hear that. 256 00:18:27,231 --> 00:18:29,233 When the car was spinning out, I just... 257 00:18:33,404 --> 00:18:35,573 You have no idea what I'm trying to say, do you? 258 00:18:36,449 --> 00:18:37,742 Not exactly... 259 00:18:40,202 --> 00:18:41,454 but I want to. 260 00:18:41,537 --> 00:18:42,580 I don't know either. 261 00:18:43,623 --> 00:18:45,166 It's nothing, it's fine. 262 00:18:45,625 --> 00:18:46,876 Seriously, Bill... 263 00:18:47,376 --> 00:18:48,502 Call Debbie. 264 00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:51,547 Tell her she can come get us in the morning. 265 00:19:07,313 --> 00:19:08,689 Come on, kid. 266 00:19:08,773 --> 00:19:10,858 You don't expect us to buy your mercy horseshit. 267 00:19:10,941 --> 00:19:14,028 I think what Agent Tench means is... 268 00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:16,280 I think I've had enough science for one day. 269 00:19:28,584 --> 00:19:30,624 - Well, should we hear it again? - Eventually, yeah. 270 00:19:33,297 --> 00:19:36,218 Okay. So there are two triggers, 271 00:19:36,243 --> 00:19:38,159 one right after the other, for Rissell. 272 00:19:38,219 --> 00:19:40,096 Maybe trigger is the wrong word. Too facile. 273 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,306 Also, in law enforcement, has more than one meaning. 274 00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:44,934 What about stresses? Stressors. 275 00:19:45,726 --> 00:19:47,186 Let's make that our term of art. 276 00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:50,064 Stress is more internal anyway. It's more appropriate to our focus. 277 00:19:50,147 --> 00:19:51,982 So, two stressors set Rissell off? 278 00:19:52,066 --> 00:19:53,567 Her letter, obviously. 279 00:19:53,651 --> 00:19:56,445 So, the girlfriend writes him a Dear John letter and he... 280 00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:57,613 Rissell cracks. 281 00:19:57,697 --> 00:20:00,658 - But he doesn't call her or write back. - No, he goes down there. 282 00:20:00,741 --> 00:20:02,981 - Stalks her like a hunter. - Not like a hunter. 283 00:20:03,005 --> 00:20:06,884 He doesn't kill the girlfriend, he only watches her with her new beau. 284 00:20:06,997 --> 00:20:08,249 - Big difference. - "Beau"? 285 00:20:08,332 --> 00:20:11,001 So what if Rissell doesn't mean to kill anyone at this point? 286 00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:12,753 He's still on track for rape, 287 00:20:12,837 --> 00:20:14,964 but it's this first victim's compliance 288 00:20:15,047 --> 00:20:17,299 that just kind of pushes him over the edge. 289 00:20:17,383 --> 00:20:19,760 He kills the first one because she likes it or pretends to? 290 00:20:19,844 --> 00:20:21,137 It's dominoes. 291 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:22,555 Her compliance makes him angry. 292 00:20:22,638 --> 00:20:24,682 He throws her out of the car, she tries to escape. 293 00:20:24,765 --> 00:20:27,727 Where is it? He says, "The whole thing is just fucking chaos." 294 00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:30,354 - He needed to reassert control. - Exactly. 295 00:20:31,063 --> 00:20:33,941 Which means that the victim's behavior is also a stressor. 296 00:20:34,525 --> 00:20:37,194 I mean, it may be that they can't change the ultimate outcome, 297 00:20:37,278 --> 00:20:39,196 but they can affect when and how it happens. 298 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,074 Exactly what I was thinking, which is why I asked the question. 299 00:20:42,158 --> 00:20:43,826 But... 300 00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:44,952 But what? 301 00:20:45,035 --> 00:20:46,454 Isn't that just life? 302 00:20:47,037 --> 00:20:48,205 Your girlfriend dumps you? 303 00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:50,750 You're trying to be intimate with someone, and it goes wrong? 304 00:20:50,833 --> 00:20:52,248 Obviously, not that wrong, 305 00:20:52,273 --> 00:20:54,066 but it seems like Rissell just couldn't hack life. 306 00:20:54,091 --> 00:20:55,406 Well, what else is a criminal 307 00:20:55,431 --> 00:20:57,588 except somebody who can't function in society? 308 00:20:57,798 --> 00:20:59,300 If we want to be reductive, 309 00:20:59,383 --> 00:21:01,943 we can say these men can't handle normal stages of development... 310 00:21:02,011 --> 00:21:04,472 Why do I get the sense "reductive" is your worst insult? 311 00:21:04,555 --> 00:21:06,682 Not at all. I meant to say you were right. 312 00:21:08,350 --> 00:21:11,437 How would most men feel if they were being intimate with a woman 313 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,523 and they sensed that she wasn't enjoying herself? 314 00:21:17,985 --> 00:21:19,236 Come on, be scientists. 315 00:21:20,821 --> 00:21:21,822 Disappointed. 316 00:21:22,448 --> 00:21:24,950 - It would feel awful. - Right. 317 00:21:25,034 --> 00:21:26,660 You want her to have a good time. 318 00:21:26,744 --> 00:21:29,497 But when Rissell sensed that his victim was enjoying herself, 319 00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:31,290 it turned him into a murderer. 320 00:21:31,832 --> 00:21:34,043 So, yes, what happens to these men is normal, 321 00:21:34,126 --> 00:21:35,836 but the way that they process it is not. 322 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,215 That's our goal, to dig into the why, like you did with Kemper. 323 00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:41,178 We're headed to Altoona for Road School. 324 00:21:41,237 --> 00:21:43,948 We'll try and see Rissell again when we get back, if he'll see us. 325 00:21:44,011 --> 00:21:45,706 You know that this is gonna take twice as long 326 00:21:45,731 --> 00:21:47,741 if you can't do the interviews full-time. 327 00:21:48,015 --> 00:21:51,101 What is it? A question of money, of institutional rigidity, 328 00:21:51,185 --> 00:21:52,185 scheduling, what? 329 00:21:52,228 --> 00:21:53,395 All of the above. 330 00:21:53,479 --> 00:21:56,732 You know, I've been in academia all my life, let me see what I can do. 331 00:22:09,745 --> 00:22:11,080 Honey, I gotta go. 332 00:22:15,501 --> 00:22:16,669 Brian. 333 00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:18,295 Come on. 334 00:22:18,379 --> 00:22:20,047 Give your father a hug. 335 00:22:20,506 --> 00:22:21,674 Say goodbye. 336 00:22:34,895 --> 00:22:36,438 See you soon, son. 337 00:23:00,254 --> 00:23:01,254 Ready? 338 00:23:01,922 --> 00:23:03,048 Yep. 339 00:23:06,302 --> 00:23:07,302 All yours. 340 00:23:12,808 --> 00:23:14,685 Ain't easy to get on the East Coast. 341 00:23:14,768 --> 00:23:16,020 No, it's not. 342 00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:18,772 So you're not from the East Coast, originally? 343 00:23:23,819 --> 00:23:24,819 What? 344 00:23:25,738 --> 00:23:28,073 I'm sorry, I missed that. I'm a little deaf. 345 00:23:28,532 --> 00:23:31,160 I was just asking if you consider yourself an East Coaster? 346 00:23:31,243 --> 00:23:32,786 You don't have that in your file? 347 00:23:34,872 --> 00:23:36,832 You were born in Wellington, South Kansas. 348 00:23:36,915 --> 00:23:38,083 You're the youngest of three, 349 00:23:38,167 --> 00:23:39,967 and your parents divorced when you were seven. 350 00:23:40,044 --> 00:23:43,255 That's all in the file, just not what you have to say about it. 351 00:23:43,464 --> 00:23:46,008 Yeah, my mom blamed that on me. No idea why. 352 00:23:46,884 --> 00:23:48,636 My brother and sister were around, 353 00:23:48,719 --> 00:23:51,680 but it was always on me when things went bad. 354 00:23:51,764 --> 00:23:54,350 Pretty soon after, Mom up and married Hank. 355 00:23:55,684 --> 00:23:58,437 - Dragged us out to Sacramento. - You wanted to stay in Kansas? 356 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,564 Be with my real father? You bet. 357 00:24:00,648 --> 00:24:03,609 I did not want to be in California, that's for sure. 358 00:24:05,653 --> 00:24:06,987 Nobody wanted me there, either. 359 00:24:07,696 --> 00:24:09,823 Did your mother say she didn't want you there? 360 00:24:16,121 --> 00:24:17,790 Why you always want to do that after? 361 00:24:19,208 --> 00:24:20,208 Crush the can. 362 00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:22,001 It feels good. 363 00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:23,980 Yeah, maybe. 364 00:24:24,004 --> 00:24:26,507 What made you think nobody wanted you in California? 365 00:24:26,590 --> 00:24:28,676 Mom wanted to be with Hank. 366 00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:30,844 And Hank didn't want to raise somebody else's kids, 367 00:24:30,928 --> 00:24:32,805 so he bought us shit. 368 00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:38,310 Thought that'd be enough. When I was seven, he bought me a gun. 369 00:24:39,478 --> 00:24:41,563 - He bought you a gun? - BB gun. 370 00:24:42,981 --> 00:24:46,527 My brother and sister were drinking, smoking a lot of weed, 371 00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:47,986 doing all kinds of shit. 372 00:24:49,571 --> 00:24:51,031 Sometimes they'd share. 373 00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:55,035 When I was nine, I shot my cousin in the ass with that gun. 374 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,624 That made me star of the show. 375 00:24:56,652 --> 00:24:58,855 I mean, everybody fucking hated my cousin. 376 00:24:58,914 --> 00:25:01,041 So you kids were left all alone. 377 00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:03,836 Hank broke the fucking thing over my head. 378 00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:05,754 - He beat you? - Yeah. 379 00:25:06,714 --> 00:25:07,840 It's how I burst my eardrum. 380 00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:13,178 I got into all kinds of shit, man. 381 00:25:14,471 --> 00:25:17,516 Broke into some lady's house, stole a hundred bucks. 382 00:25:18,142 --> 00:25:21,729 Mom and Hank divorced when I was 12, that was kind of my doing. 383 00:25:22,604 --> 00:25:25,149 Fourteen, things got a little worse. 384 00:25:25,232 --> 00:25:28,861 Burglary, larceny, car theft, rape twice. 385 00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:31,947 My mom somehow got them to send me to Florida. 386 00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:34,241 Thanks, Ma! 387 00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:39,460 I get back. I'm 17, living on my own, 388 00:25:39,495 --> 00:25:41,850 working double shifts at Pizza Hut. 389 00:25:43,834 --> 00:25:44,877 Nobody wanted me, man. 390 00:25:47,379 --> 00:25:49,965 Nobody on this earth ever wanted me. 391 00:25:51,425 --> 00:25:53,469 Put that on your fucking tape. 392 00:25:55,554 --> 00:25:57,890 If only they'd let me stay with my dad... 393 00:25:58,724 --> 00:26:00,142 it'd all be different. 394 00:26:01,393 --> 00:26:02,936 I might even be a lawyer. 395 00:26:03,020 --> 00:26:06,065 - So your dad wanted you? - Have a nice car. 396 00:26:06,899 --> 00:26:08,066 House. 397 00:26:08,859 --> 00:26:12,196 Be out in the backyard perfecting my recipe for barbecue. 398 00:26:15,532 --> 00:26:16,658 I'd have found my way. 399 00:26:33,258 --> 00:26:35,260 So Rissell's the real victim here? 400 00:26:35,969 --> 00:26:37,763 That's how he sees it, sure. 401 00:26:38,514 --> 00:26:40,134 A pathological liar 402 00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:43,320 who murdered five women sees himself as the victim. 403 00:26:44,102 --> 00:26:46,563 And we're giving him a shoulder to cry on. 404 00:26:46,647 --> 00:26:48,774 We're not giving him a shoulder to cry on. 405 00:26:49,233 --> 00:26:51,443 We're not flattering him. Or helping him. 406 00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:54,279 We're using him. 407 00:27:02,913 --> 00:27:03,914 Yeah, okay. 408 00:27:05,541 --> 00:27:08,794 Motive, means, opportunity. 409 00:27:09,461 --> 00:27:12,756 The three pillars of criminal what, why, who. 410 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:13,966 What happened... 411 00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:16,552 When I'm involved in a hostage negotiation, 412 00:27:16,635 --> 00:27:18,762 the perpetrator is standing right in front of me. 413 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,318 - Not a bad group tonight. - Yeah. 414 00:27:36,989 --> 00:27:38,073 We got one? 415 00:27:39,992 --> 00:27:42,202 Look at him just standing there, watching us. 416 00:27:42,286 --> 00:27:44,872 He's just having a cigarette before he heads home. 417 00:27:49,001 --> 00:27:51,211 See how he's deliberately trying not to look at us? 418 00:27:51,295 --> 00:27:53,338 He's screwing up the nerve to approach. 419 00:27:53,422 --> 00:27:56,842 - I put the over-under at half a minute. - I'll definitely take under. 420 00:27:57,467 --> 00:27:59,052 - That's a bet. - Loser buys dinner. 421 00:28:02,014 --> 00:28:03,473 Look out, he's on the move. 422 00:28:09,062 --> 00:28:10,062 Hey. 423 00:28:11,565 --> 00:28:13,483 You guys mind if I bother you for a minute? 424 00:28:13,567 --> 00:28:14,693 Sure. What's up? 425 00:28:15,694 --> 00:28:17,529 Beverly Jean Shaw, 22. 426 00:28:19,031 --> 00:28:20,741 Never came home from her babysitting job. 427 00:28:20,824 --> 00:28:24,077 Four days later, we find her in the dump on Wopsononock Mountain. 428 00:28:25,495 --> 00:28:28,957 Um, based on stomach contents, we think she was killed right away, 429 00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:30,584 around midnight Wednesday. 430 00:28:32,252 --> 00:28:34,671 She was sitting like this at the dump for four days? 431 00:28:34,755 --> 00:28:36,548 Well, no, um... 432 00:28:38,175 --> 00:28:40,093 See, there wasn't enough, um... 433 00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:43,388 If she had been at the dump four days... 434 00:28:43,472 --> 00:28:45,891 We'd see more insect infestation and animal trauma. 435 00:28:46,642 --> 00:28:48,769 So, between when she was murdered on Wednesday 436 00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:50,604 and the body was discovered four days later, 437 00:28:50,687 --> 00:28:51,847 she had to be someplace else? 438 00:28:54,274 --> 00:28:55,484 Her breasts. 439 00:28:56,526 --> 00:28:59,613 They were, I guess you'd say... amputated. 440 00:29:00,447 --> 00:29:02,955 Um, we have not been able to locate them. 441 00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:04,495 Was this postmortem or... 442 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,204 Coroner said she was already dead. Yes, sir. 443 00:29:07,287 --> 00:29:08,872 He blacked both her eyes, 444 00:29:09,373 --> 00:29:12,292 broke her jaw, multiple stab wounds. 445 00:29:12,751 --> 00:29:15,796 You can see he kind of frogged her legs out there. 446 00:29:18,882 --> 00:29:20,217 And there was, um... 447 00:29:31,728 --> 00:29:32,729 Sorry. 448 00:29:34,356 --> 00:29:35,774 We don't get this kind of thing. 449 00:29:35,857 --> 00:29:37,217 - It's hard to... - Take your time. 450 00:29:42,656 --> 00:29:45,867 There was an incision. From her... 451 00:29:46,868 --> 00:29:50,622 From her vagina to her, um... anus. 452 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,210 - God damn it. I'm sorry. - You're doing fine. 453 00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:58,380 - The family local? - Uh... 454 00:29:58,463 --> 00:29:59,756 Parents upstate. Fiancé in town. 455 00:30:02,415 --> 00:30:04,195 You don't think somebody local did this? 456 00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:05,911 Hard to say at this point. 457 00:30:06,596 --> 00:30:08,432 I go to church with these people. 458 00:30:08,515 --> 00:30:11,184 We get peeping Toms, sure. But something like this? 459 00:30:11,268 --> 00:30:12,728 It doesn't make sense. 460 00:30:12,811 --> 00:30:16,898 To go from shoplifters and underage kids buying beer to... 461 00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:22,154 what happened to Beverly... Has to be an outsider. 462 00:30:22,237 --> 00:30:24,990 Draped over the ironing board here, is that human hair? 463 00:30:26,575 --> 00:30:27,659 Yes, sir. 464 00:30:27,743 --> 00:30:28,744 You have it? 465 00:30:30,537 --> 00:30:31,537 Sure. 466 00:30:31,872 --> 00:30:33,540 Yeah, Forensics bagged it up. 467 00:30:33,957 --> 00:30:36,335 It's all about Forensics. I am starting to appreciate that. 468 00:30:36,418 --> 00:30:38,628 And the ironing board, you take that as well? 469 00:30:38,712 --> 00:30:42,174 Uh, I mean, we dusted it for fingerprints and everything, but, uh... 470 00:30:43,712 --> 00:30:45,668 But you do think the unsub scalped Beverly 471 00:30:45,693 --> 00:30:47,568 and then draped it over the ironing board? 472 00:30:48,847 --> 00:30:49,847 That mean something? 473 00:30:51,767 --> 00:30:53,247 Everything in this photo has meaning. 474 00:30:53,271 --> 00:30:55,854 If the unsub meant to display the hair, he was saying something. 475 00:30:55,937 --> 00:30:59,274 - He could've put the hair anywhere. - Right, no, I get it now. Uh... 476 00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:01,401 Soon as Forensics confirms it's Beverly's hair... 477 00:31:01,485 --> 00:31:02,527 I'm sorry, what? 478 00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:05,113 Well, we shouldn't jump ahead of Forensics, am I right? 479 00:31:05,197 --> 00:31:07,125 I think, in this case, 480 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:08,682 we have a dead body missing a chunk of hair, 481 00:31:08,742 --> 00:31:11,828 a big chunk of hair nearby, so we can go out on a limb and assume... 482 00:31:11,912 --> 00:31:14,414 I think what Agent Ford is trying to say, in his own way, 483 00:31:14,498 --> 00:31:17,459 is we're behind the eight ball here, we've come late to the party. 484 00:31:17,542 --> 00:31:19,753 We're gonna have to go over ground you've covered: 485 00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:21,380 witnesses, crime scene. 486 00:31:21,463 --> 00:31:23,156 We don't mean that as a challenge to you. 487 00:31:23,181 --> 00:31:24,740 It's not any kind of a criticism. 488 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,135 We're just trying to catch up. Am I right, Agent Ford? 489 00:31:30,847 --> 00:31:31,932 Absolutely. 490 00:31:32,034 --> 00:31:33,610 We may ask some obvious questions 491 00:31:33,635 --> 00:31:35,311 and maybe a few you haven't thought of. 492 00:31:35,352 --> 00:31:38,939 But it's not a contest or a competition. We're all on the same side. 493 00:31:40,065 --> 00:31:41,358 - Okay? - Sure. 494 00:31:41,858 --> 00:31:43,402 Let's go through the rest. 495 00:31:43,485 --> 00:31:46,321 I'm curious why you're cutting this guy so much slack. 496 00:31:46,405 --> 00:31:48,278 He's never seen this kind of thing before. 497 00:31:48,303 --> 00:31:50,266 He's rattled. It's not his fault. 498 00:31:51,576 --> 00:31:55,580 Without a doubt you have more experience, but why rub it in his face? 499 00:31:56,832 --> 00:31:58,875 I'm not trying to make you feel bad. 500 00:31:58,959 --> 00:32:00,001 Maybe a little. 501 00:32:00,085 --> 00:32:01,991 The point is, local cops want to catch 502 00:32:02,016 --> 00:32:04,071 their guy as much as we do, maybe more. 503 00:32:04,131 --> 00:32:07,050 For them, it's not just theoretical, it's where they live. 504 00:32:16,893 --> 00:32:18,520 This is where your focus should be. 505 00:32:19,146 --> 00:32:23,191 Not on the crime scene, not on the corpse, not on the schematics. 506 00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:26,445 Focus on Beverly. 507 00:32:26,528 --> 00:32:28,947 What did the killer see in her? 508 00:32:29,030 --> 00:32:31,630 We've learned that this is a crucial detail, and not the only one. 509 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:33,952 Based on the facts Detective Ocasek laid out earlier, 510 00:32:34,035 --> 00:32:36,538 our methodology tells us we're looking for a white male. 511 00:32:36,621 --> 00:32:38,957 These crimes rarely cross racial lines. 512 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,084 He's probably around Beverly's age. 513 00:32:41,168 --> 00:32:44,004 A killer will usually choose someone smaller and weaker than himself. 514 00:32:44,087 --> 00:32:46,381 He's a loner, hunts at night. 515 00:32:46,715 --> 00:32:49,426 I'm sorry, "hunts"? Is that a figure of speech? 516 00:32:50,237 --> 00:32:51,237 It is not. 517 00:32:51,261 --> 00:32:54,598 Coroner's report said Beverly was killed and then butchered. 518 00:32:54,681 --> 00:32:55,974 Isn't that what hunters do? 519 00:32:56,808 --> 00:32:58,810 We're probably looking for a loner. 520 00:33:00,020 --> 00:33:02,063 These men like to explore the fantasy first, 521 00:33:02,606 --> 00:33:04,733 bondage pornography, hardcore material. 522 00:33:04,816 --> 00:33:07,652 It gives them a certain... attitude towards women. 523 00:33:07,736 --> 00:33:09,112 Hence, a loner. 524 00:33:09,196 --> 00:33:12,032 Close-knit community like this, you would've spotted that by now. 525 00:33:12,115 --> 00:33:14,493 I think our man is an outsider, probably a drifter. 526 00:33:14,576 --> 00:33:17,370 Most likely, he'll move on from here and kill again. 527 00:33:17,454 --> 00:33:18,788 Again? 528 00:33:36,806 --> 00:33:40,435 The killer thought of Beverly Jean as just another piece of trash. 529 00:33:41,561 --> 00:33:44,940 Folks loved Beverly Jean. Trusted her with their kids. 530 00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:48,360 Had to be a drifter, like you say. 531 00:33:48,735 --> 00:33:50,529 Some stranger passing through town. 532 00:33:50,612 --> 00:33:52,364 All that pretty hair caught his eye. 533 00:33:52,447 --> 00:33:54,908 He needed to possess it, then destroy it. 534 00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:58,233 You talk to the fiancé? 535 00:33:58,286 --> 00:34:01,122 There's only so much you can get out of a man in that state. 536 00:34:02,082 --> 00:34:05,460 Benjamin was still in shock. Gotta take all that into account. 537 00:34:05,544 --> 00:34:09,172 Well, I'm sure you know your people, but let's just cover our bases. 538 00:34:09,256 --> 00:34:12,551 And let's try to get him cold. Make some excuse when you call. 539 00:34:13,134 --> 00:34:15,512 Don't mention the FBI, or even the murder. 540 00:34:15,595 --> 00:34:17,597 Help us get an unguarded response. 541 00:34:18,181 --> 00:34:19,683 Soon as Benjamin gets back into town. 542 00:34:19,766 --> 00:34:22,310 - Back into town? - You let the fiancé leave? 543 00:34:22,394 --> 00:34:24,854 He went up north for a bit to be with his relatives. 544 00:34:24,938 --> 00:34:27,315 You need to be with family at times like this. 545 00:34:27,399 --> 00:34:30,151 He'll be back soon. I'll vouch for that. 546 00:34:32,946 --> 00:34:33,989 He'll be back. 547 00:34:47,460 --> 00:34:48,753 Where was the body found? 548 00:34:49,212 --> 00:34:50,547 Up here to the left. 549 00:34:58,513 --> 00:34:59,873 Here's the ironing board. 550 00:35:01,433 --> 00:35:04,530 Right. I'll have a couple of the boys come pick it up. 551 00:35:04,555 --> 00:35:05,660 Sorry about that. 552 00:35:05,685 --> 00:35:09,272 No apology necessary. We're all learning as we go. 553 00:35:12,736 --> 00:35:14,988 You can see why I went easy on the fiancé. 554 00:35:16,531 --> 00:35:18,408 Ugly end for someone you just proposed to. 555 00:35:18,491 --> 00:35:19,951 How long were they engaged? 556 00:35:20,660 --> 00:35:21,745 Couple months, I think. 557 00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:24,497 Could be he felt trapped. 558 00:35:24,581 --> 00:35:26,249 By a pretty, young blonde? 559 00:35:26,875 --> 00:35:28,376 Remember what Wendy said? 560 00:35:29,252 --> 00:35:31,171 A colleague of ours, a psychologist. 561 00:35:31,254 --> 00:35:33,342 Events we process as good news sometimes 562 00:35:33,367 --> 00:35:34,865 hit these killers the wrong way. 563 00:35:34,924 --> 00:35:36,718 Huh. That's interesting. 564 00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:38,303 Who found the body? 565 00:35:38,887 --> 00:35:42,182 A welder, Alvin Moran, out taking his dog for a hike. 566 00:35:42,766 --> 00:35:44,559 - At the dump? - He have an alibi? 567 00:35:45,143 --> 00:35:48,146 Alibi? He came to us. Why's he need an alibi? 568 00:35:48,229 --> 00:35:51,316 Sometimes the killer will insinuate himself into the investigation. 569 00:35:51,399 --> 00:35:53,239 - Even report his own crime? - Mm-hmm. 570 00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:54,861 Can we talk to him? 571 00:35:56,404 --> 00:35:57,405 Yeah. 572 00:36:10,627 --> 00:36:11,628 Excuse me! 573 00:36:13,421 --> 00:36:14,421 Mr. Moran? 574 00:36:16,925 --> 00:36:18,259 Mr. Moran? 575 00:36:25,475 --> 00:36:27,018 You remember me, Mr. Moran? 576 00:36:27,394 --> 00:36:30,522 These men from the FBI would like to talk to you. That all right? 577 00:36:30,605 --> 00:36:31,605 Great. 578 00:36:32,607 --> 00:36:35,026 We're told you found Beverly Jean's body. 579 00:36:35,318 --> 00:36:37,362 How'd you happen to find yourself at the dump? 580 00:36:37,821 --> 00:36:40,281 Hiking. Wopsononock Mountain. 581 00:36:41,324 --> 00:36:42,992 Like to take the trail, clear my head. 582 00:36:43,076 --> 00:36:45,537 - Get a break from the wife and kids? - That's right. 583 00:36:45,620 --> 00:36:48,331 Get up there a few times a week. Take the dog for a walk. 584 00:36:48,415 --> 00:36:50,834 Still not clear how that puts you at the dump. 585 00:36:50,917 --> 00:36:53,253 - The path comes in pretty close. - Does it? 586 00:36:53,795 --> 00:36:56,840 You see any sign of a hiking trail out by the dump, Bill? 587 00:36:56,923 --> 00:36:59,050 The other side of the railroad tracks, up the hill. 588 00:36:59,467 --> 00:37:01,928 Looks like a bunch of trees from where you're standing. 589 00:37:02,345 --> 00:37:04,806 But if there's no clear view from the dump to the trail... 590 00:37:04,889 --> 00:37:06,391 Are you really FBI? 591 00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:08,727 Am I under suspicion here? 592 00:37:12,897 --> 00:37:13,897 Okay. 593 00:37:15,775 --> 00:37:19,446 So I come off the trail to take a piss, no law against it. 594 00:37:19,529 --> 00:37:21,948 There may be, actually, but let's leave that for now. 595 00:37:22,031 --> 00:37:24,993 You go to take a piss, you see Beverly Jean's body... 596 00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:27,746 I thought it was a store mannequin or something. 597 00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:29,664 Wouldn't your dog have gone straight for it? 598 00:37:29,748 --> 00:37:31,261 Might have, but that's not what happened. 599 00:37:31,286 --> 00:37:32,494 What kind of dog do you have? 600 00:37:32,667 --> 00:37:35,086 - Retriever. - And he didn't sniff it out first? 601 00:37:35,712 --> 00:37:36,755 That seems odd. 602 00:37:37,255 --> 00:37:39,674 - He's an old dog. - Not too old for a hike. 603 00:37:41,346 --> 00:37:42,614 I took care of my business, 604 00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:44,546 I collected my dog, and I went to the police. 605 00:37:45,013 --> 00:37:47,098 Right away? Few hours later? Next day? 606 00:37:47,182 --> 00:37:49,100 Couple hours later. Maybe that night. 607 00:37:50,018 --> 00:37:52,020 It was actually morning when you came in, sir. 608 00:37:54,105 --> 00:37:56,733 Why'd you wait so long to report the body, Mr. Moran? 609 00:37:58,777 --> 00:38:00,798 You're talking to the FBI, Mr. Moran. 610 00:38:00,823 --> 00:38:03,019 If we want to find something out, we will. 611 00:38:05,909 --> 00:38:08,787 I was scared the cops might want me for it, okay? 612 00:38:09,412 --> 00:38:12,123 My wife talked me out of that. I did my duty as a citizen. 613 00:38:12,373 --> 00:38:14,375 You thought they'd want you for a murder? 614 00:38:14,834 --> 00:38:17,462 I seen cops get desperate, grab whoever they can get. 615 00:38:17,545 --> 00:38:18,630 But why you? 616 00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:21,841 I got a bit of a record, all right? 617 00:38:22,463 --> 00:38:24,207 It ain't much. I lit up a few fires 618 00:38:24,232 --> 00:38:26,324 when I was a kid, got into a few fights. 619 00:38:26,763 --> 00:38:27,889 I ain't proud of it. 620 00:38:27,972 --> 00:38:29,474 Came here, met my wife. 621 00:38:30,853 --> 00:38:32,393 Family man now. 622 00:38:32,595 --> 00:38:35,002 Before that, did you move around a lot? 623 00:38:36,648 --> 00:38:39,567 Not a good way to live. I feel settled now. 624 00:38:41,903 --> 00:38:43,530 Is that your statement, Mr. Moran? 625 00:38:47,826 --> 00:38:50,161 I come into town, grab a beer now and then. 626 00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:55,667 I seen Beverly Jean a few times. 627 00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:57,710 You saw Beverly Jean at a bar? 628 00:38:58,586 --> 00:38:59,586 At The Kettle. 629 00:39:01,047 --> 00:39:03,508 - Finally got up the nerve. - The nerve to do what? 630 00:39:04,592 --> 00:39:05,844 To buy her a drink. 631 00:39:08,054 --> 00:39:10,014 She wasn't interested, end of story. 632 00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:14,686 Maybe I asked her more than once. 633 00:39:14,769 --> 00:39:18,064 More than once that night at the bar, or on more than one occasion? 634 00:39:18,731 --> 00:39:21,025 I guess you'd say on more than one occasion. 635 00:39:24,362 --> 00:39:25,883 He's too old and too married. 636 00:39:25,908 --> 00:39:28,098 He was a drifter until recently. 637 00:39:28,157 --> 00:39:29,742 Beverly Jean rejected him. 638 00:39:29,826 --> 00:39:32,620 He's got a record. He tried to help the police. 639 00:39:32,704 --> 00:39:36,207 And his alibi? Home watching TV with the wife? 640 00:39:36,291 --> 00:39:38,391 If a man like that took Beverly Jean, 641 00:39:38,437 --> 00:39:40,235 he'd draw it out, make her suffer. 642 00:39:40,295 --> 00:39:42,505 You saw the photos, he must've tortured her for hours. 643 00:39:42,589 --> 00:39:45,069 Those wounds were inflicted posthumously. Can't forget. 644 00:39:45,093 --> 00:39:47,429 You said that before. What difference does that make? 645 00:39:48,803 --> 00:39:51,139 When you're married, it's a contract. 646 00:39:51,556 --> 00:39:53,725 There's children, a mortgage, 647 00:39:53,808 --> 00:39:56,311 a house to keep up, almost like a business. 648 00:39:57,270 --> 00:40:00,231 Only you can't quit. She can't fire you. 649 00:40:00,315 --> 00:40:02,025 Stock goes up, stock goes down... 650 00:40:02,108 --> 00:40:03,568 doesn't matter, you're trapped. 651 00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:07,196 Unless you want to bring on the lawyers and open Pandora's box. 652 00:40:07,780 --> 00:40:09,324 Resentment builds on both sides. 653 00:40:09,407 --> 00:40:10,909 A thousand tiny cuts. 654 00:40:11,784 --> 00:40:14,162 If Alvin Moran had a married man's anger, 655 00:40:14,621 --> 00:40:16,247 he'd have tortured, then killed her. 656 00:40:17,165 --> 00:40:18,416 No question in my mind. 657 00:40:20,585 --> 00:40:23,922 Maybe we should talk to his wife. See if there's anything there. 658 00:40:25,798 --> 00:40:27,175 I mean, she's the whole alibi. 659 00:40:28,801 --> 00:40:30,970 Wouldn't mind checking it holds up. 660 00:40:35,558 --> 00:40:37,602 Mrs. Moran, thank you for coming in. 661 00:40:37,685 --> 00:40:40,939 My name is Bill Tench. This is my partner, Holden Ford. 662 00:40:41,022 --> 00:40:42,023 Hello. 663 00:40:44,817 --> 00:40:46,736 I don't understand. I can't call my husband? 664 00:40:46,819 --> 00:40:48,659 Aren't I supposed to get my phone call? 665 00:40:48,684 --> 00:40:50,605 You're not under arrest, Mrs. Moran. 666 00:40:50,728 --> 00:40:52,021 These men are from the FBI. 667 00:40:52,158 --> 00:40:54,077 They just want to ask you a couple questions. 668 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,120 Have you been following the investigation? 669 00:40:59,290 --> 00:41:01,751 Can't look at that. Poor girl. 670 00:41:03,503 --> 00:41:05,463 - Wouldn't hurt a fly. - You knew her? 671 00:41:07,048 --> 00:41:08,675 Can we ask how you knew her? 672 00:41:09,884 --> 00:41:12,804 - She was almost our babysitter. - Almost? 673 00:41:16,099 --> 00:41:17,099 Mrs. Moran? 674 00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:20,645 We talked with her about it. 675 00:41:22,271 --> 00:41:26,567 When she left, Alvin wouldn't shut up about the girl. 676 00:41:27,402 --> 00:41:28,402 Meaning? 677 00:41:29,445 --> 00:41:30,571 You know what I mean. 678 00:41:30,655 --> 00:41:32,532 It's best if we don't have to guess, ma'am. 679 00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:39,163 She was young, and skinny, and... 680 00:41:40,415 --> 00:41:42,333 "Oh, such pretty blonde hair." 681 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,837 Didn't need that in my house. 682 00:41:46,337 --> 00:41:48,381 Not with two little kids in the picture. 683 00:41:49,382 --> 00:41:50,425 What do I look like? 684 00:41:51,342 --> 00:41:55,221 Were you aware that your husband made overtures to Beverly 685 00:41:55,304 --> 00:41:56,639 on several occasions? 686 00:41:56,723 --> 00:41:59,350 Didn't I just say he had a thing for the poor girl? 687 00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:04,272 Alvin does this. 688 00:42:05,148 --> 00:42:09,235 It's like sportfishing. He doesn't mean anything by it. 689 00:42:09,318 --> 00:42:11,446 We were told he was home with you watching television 690 00:42:11,529 --> 00:42:12,864 the night Beverly disappeared. 691 00:42:16,409 --> 00:42:18,202 You think Alvin did this? 692 00:42:20,955 --> 00:42:23,833 Oh! No. 693 00:42:25,334 --> 00:42:28,463 I mean, I'd love for him to get a good scare, 694 00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:30,631 bothering a girl half his age, 695 00:42:30,715 --> 00:42:32,967 but... no. 696 00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:35,887 The idiot was with me. 697 00:42:36,429 --> 00:42:37,430 The whole night? 698 00:42:38,181 --> 00:42:39,265 The whole night. 699 00:42:42,810 --> 00:42:45,383 Okay, her husband made a pass at a younger woman. 700 00:42:45,408 --> 00:42:47,339 He's an idiot. 701 00:42:48,107 --> 00:42:49,567 But so are a million other men. 702 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:51,819 I don't see any of the anger you've been talking about. 703 00:42:51,903 --> 00:42:53,905 So lo and behold, we're back to the fiancé. 704 00:42:53,988 --> 00:42:55,531 Follow your own logic, Bill. 705 00:42:55,865 --> 00:42:58,409 The anger makes no sense in a young couple either. 706 00:42:58,493 --> 00:43:00,244 This could be the first in a sequence. 707 00:43:00,328 --> 00:43:02,188 Nine times out of ten, it's the boyfriend, 708 00:43:02,213 --> 00:43:04,064 the husband, somebody close. 709 00:43:04,123 --> 00:43:05,750 Nine times isn't every time, Bill. 710 00:43:05,833 --> 00:43:06,834 Listen, uh... 711 00:43:08,211 --> 00:43:10,463 Can't say how much I appreciate all your help. 712 00:43:10,797 --> 00:43:13,674 Sorry if I got off a little shaky there at the start. 713 00:43:13,758 --> 00:43:16,594 I'm gonna stick with Alvin, if it's all the same, keep you posted. 714 00:43:20,598 --> 00:43:23,476 So you're in the middle of an ongoing investigation? 715 00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:26,020 A local detective asked for our help. What else could we do? 716 00:43:26,104 --> 00:43:28,544 Tell them you have more important things to do with your time. 717 00:43:28,606 --> 00:43:30,892 We've been consulting with local cops for years. 718 00:43:30,917 --> 00:43:32,467 No reason to change that now. 719 00:43:32,527 --> 00:43:34,529 My assumption is you're good at your job. 720 00:43:34,612 --> 00:43:37,281 Which means you're gonna be more focused on solving an actual crime 721 00:43:37,365 --> 00:43:38,991 than the theoretical work we're doing. 722 00:43:39,075 --> 00:43:41,953 - And that's bad? - It's not good or bad. 723 00:43:42,036 --> 00:43:44,413 We can't end crime, no matter what we do. 724 00:43:44,438 --> 00:43:45,618 But in the long run, 725 00:43:45,643 --> 00:43:47,715 I think that our project could have a deeper impact 726 00:43:47,834 --> 00:43:49,377 than solving a single murder. 727 00:43:49,460 --> 00:43:51,546 We can do both. It's not an issue. 728 00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:56,010 What jumped out when you were talking to Rissell? 729 00:43:56,092 --> 00:43:58,094 He seems aware of the trap of his childhood. 730 00:43:58,177 --> 00:44:00,972 How things might be different if he was allowed to stay with his dad. 731 00:44:01,055 --> 00:44:02,255 Kemper said something similar. 732 00:44:02,279 --> 00:44:04,600 They're both playing the victim, looking for sympathy. 733 00:44:04,684 --> 00:44:06,310 I think it's more complicated. 734 00:44:06,394 --> 00:44:09,772 I think you're both right. I mean, it's self-pity, absolutely. 735 00:44:09,856 --> 00:44:12,733 And the psychopath understands how that plays to his audience. 736 00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:14,569 - Exactly. - But the complicated part 737 00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:17,405 is that they actually believe it. They have to. 738 00:44:17,488 --> 00:44:20,408 I mean, if they admitted that they rape and murder for pleasure, 739 00:44:20,491 --> 00:44:21,491 it would destroy them. 740 00:44:22,451 --> 00:44:23,536 There's a tension. 741 00:44:23,619 --> 00:44:26,539 They need to be seen to have power over someone, 742 00:44:26,622 --> 00:44:29,083 and yet circumstance demands that they erase the only witness, 743 00:44:29,167 --> 00:44:32,086 which means they have to do the whole thing over again. 744 00:44:32,605 --> 00:44:33,605 It must be hell. 745 00:44:33,629 --> 00:44:36,591 So the self-pity angle works. You have sympathy for both of them. 746 00:44:36,674 --> 00:44:38,634 Yeah, of course. How else could I do my job? 747 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,096 Do Kemper and Rissell have other common traits? 748 00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:44,974 That what you're doing with these cards, figuring out similarities? 749 00:44:45,057 --> 00:44:47,518 And differences. I've been going through their files. 750 00:44:47,602 --> 00:44:50,157 I'm trying to frame an overall taxonomy, 751 00:44:50,182 --> 00:44:51,379 except I don't know where to start. 752 00:44:51,439 --> 00:44:52,523 The crime scene. 753 00:44:52,607 --> 00:44:54,947 Kemper's like a general, planning his campaigns. 754 00:44:54,972 --> 00:44:56,015 But Rissell... 755 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,677 Didn't intend to kill his first victim. 756 00:44:57,737 --> 00:44:59,295 All of his victims seem spontaneous. 757 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,639 He just walks away when he's done. 758 00:45:00,698 --> 00:45:02,867 Kemper took photographs, and dissected the victims, 759 00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:04,911 and was very good at hiding the remains. 760 00:45:04,994 --> 00:45:07,830 So could we say "systematic" and "anti-systematic"? 761 00:45:07,914 --> 00:45:09,624 Maybe something a little less... 762 00:45:09,707 --> 00:45:11,947 Something even a beat cop could understand straight away. 763 00:45:12,001 --> 00:45:14,837 Right. Like "organized" and "disorganized." 764 00:45:14,921 --> 00:45:16,505 Okay. Let's try it. 765 00:45:16,589 --> 00:45:17,589 What goes where? 766 00:45:18,966 --> 00:45:19,966 Well... 767 00:45:20,676 --> 00:45:24,222 "High intelligence" would go under "organized." 768 00:45:24,597 --> 00:45:27,058 "Low intelligence": "disorganized." 769 00:45:30,645 --> 00:45:32,563 - What do you think? - Definitely. 770 00:45:32,647 --> 00:45:36,025 The class is great, but he's obsessed with the meaning of shit. 771 00:45:36,108 --> 00:45:37,109 Does shit have meaning? 772 00:45:37,193 --> 00:45:38,653 All shit has meaning, man. 773 00:45:40,196 --> 00:45:41,196 Is that her? 774 00:45:44,325 --> 00:45:46,410 No. Wendy's more... 775 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,680 not that. 776 00:45:48,704 --> 00:45:50,122 Look at you. 777 00:45:50,206 --> 00:45:53,334 Dr. Wendy has you all nervous. Should I be jealous? 778 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,837 Would I have invited her to go out with us if I was interested in her? 779 00:45:56,921 --> 00:45:59,090 I've seen men do stranger things. 780 00:45:59,548 --> 00:46:01,968 - So she's married. - How does that follow? 781 00:46:02,051 --> 00:46:04,595 If you're not interested, she must be married. 782 00:46:05,054 --> 00:46:09,058 For a man who picks up strange women in bars, you have your scruples. 783 00:46:10,226 --> 00:46:11,227 Thank you. 784 00:46:13,938 --> 00:46:15,147 I don't think she is married. 785 00:46:16,065 --> 00:46:17,066 That's her. 786 00:46:19,026 --> 00:46:21,028 No. 787 00:46:22,655 --> 00:46:24,115 Do you plan on getting married? 788 00:46:24,198 --> 00:46:26,033 Having kids, the whole thing? 789 00:46:27,368 --> 00:46:29,704 Are you proposing, Holden Ford? 790 00:46:29,787 --> 00:46:30,871 Just curious. 791 00:46:32,456 --> 00:46:35,584 - Your parents have a good marriage? - I have no idea. 792 00:46:35,668 --> 00:46:38,129 - Where's this coming from? - The study. 793 00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:40,631 We're talking a lot about parents. 794 00:46:40,881 --> 00:46:42,508 Harsh mothers, absent fathers. 795 00:46:42,591 --> 00:46:44,552 All fathers are absent fathers. 796 00:46:46,721 --> 00:46:47,930 That's definitely her. 797 00:46:49,932 --> 00:46:51,684 No. 798 00:46:51,767 --> 00:46:52,767 Hello. 799 00:46:53,811 --> 00:46:54,811 Hi. 800 00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:57,815 - Wendy Carr. - Deborah Mitford. 801 00:46:57,898 --> 00:46:59,025 It's a pleasure. 802 00:46:59,108 --> 00:47:00,628 Thank you so much for the invitation. 803 00:47:00,653 --> 00:47:02,302 It was unexpected, but appreciated. 804 00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:05,448 Yeah, for a fed, he's not so bad at having a good time. 805 00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:07,408 Are you in law enforcement also? 806 00:47:07,491 --> 00:47:09,660 No, I'm doing postgrad, actually. 807 00:47:09,744 --> 00:47:12,121 - Sociology at UVA. - What's your concentration? 808 00:47:12,204 --> 00:47:14,498 - Social deviance. - So... Durkheim? 809 00:47:14,582 --> 00:47:16,542 - Yes. - Oh, God. 810 00:47:17,251 --> 00:47:18,961 Because I didn't know who Durkheim was... 811 00:47:19,045 --> 00:47:21,672 - Or Goring, or Blumer. - It's fine. 812 00:47:22,173 --> 00:47:25,092 I'm not intimidated being around women who are smarter than me. 813 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,179 Men often say that, but they rarely mean it. 814 00:47:28,262 --> 00:47:29,346 Holden means it. 815 00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:32,933 He has a lot of flaws, but surprisingly, that's not one of them. 816 00:47:35,186 --> 00:47:37,646 - I'm... Excuse me. - Yes. 817 00:47:38,439 --> 00:47:41,317 Could I get a Manhattan? And will you have another round? 818 00:47:42,026 --> 00:47:43,360 - Yeah, thank you. - Yeah. 819 00:47:44,695 --> 00:47:46,015 So he called you directly? 820 00:47:46,072 --> 00:47:49,366 No, Andrea called. Said he wanted to meet with us. 821 00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:51,118 Any idea what this is about? 822 00:47:51,202 --> 00:47:54,371 No. Usually, it's about finding clarity. 823 00:47:54,830 --> 00:47:56,499 But he asked for me specifically? 824 00:47:56,582 --> 00:47:57,750 All three of us. 825 00:48:19,146 --> 00:48:20,147 Come in. 826 00:48:22,316 --> 00:48:26,195 Dr. Carr, Unit Chief Shepard. Nice to meet you finally. 827 00:48:26,278 --> 00:48:27,279 You as well. 828 00:48:27,863 --> 00:48:30,074 Sit, please. All of you. 829 00:48:32,243 --> 00:48:35,579 So, how's everything? Progressing? 830 00:48:37,581 --> 00:48:38,958 Uh, yes, thank you. 831 00:48:39,041 --> 00:48:40,584 - Fine, thanks. - Slowly, but yes. 832 00:48:40,668 --> 00:48:41,794 Can I help with anything? 833 00:48:45,464 --> 00:48:47,299 Is there anything I need to know? 834 00:48:49,969 --> 00:48:52,555 - Sir, if this is about the car... - Nobody cares about the car. 835 00:48:52,638 --> 00:48:55,599 It was insured and I assume driven by your protégé. 836 00:48:56,016 --> 00:48:58,352 - It's not important who was driving. - I agree. 837 00:48:58,435 --> 00:49:01,939 Dr. Carr, I'm aware of your consulting with Bill over the years 838 00:49:02,022 --> 00:49:05,526 and your help framing certain psychological concepts with the BSU. 839 00:49:05,609 --> 00:49:08,195 Uh, yes, a handful of times. Special Agent Tench was... 840 00:49:08,279 --> 00:49:10,014 I assume that meant you understood 841 00:49:10,039 --> 00:49:11,890 how things were done here at Quantico. 842 00:49:11,949 --> 00:49:14,285 I assumed the same for your cohorts. 843 00:49:15,661 --> 00:49:18,205 You might think it is my job to impede your progress 844 00:49:18,289 --> 00:49:22,084 with my insistence on timelines and established protocols. 845 00:49:22,168 --> 00:49:24,044 - No, sir. Not at all. - That is not my job. 846 00:49:24,128 --> 00:49:27,298 My job is to provide guidance and quite a bit of protection. 847 00:49:27,965 --> 00:49:29,967 - I don't understand. - Clearly. 848 00:49:32,136 --> 00:49:34,471 You have stepped outside the shade of my umbrella 849 00:49:34,555 --> 00:49:36,849 and you are now exposed to direct sunlight. 850 00:49:37,308 --> 00:49:39,685 I applied for grant money from several sources 851 00:49:39,768 --> 00:49:41,729 anticipating a response months from now. 852 00:49:41,812 --> 00:49:42,813 Much to my surprise, 853 00:49:42,897 --> 00:49:46,066 the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration was already aware 854 00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:47,318 of our needs and activities. 855 00:49:47,401 --> 00:49:50,529 I see. I had no intention of embarrassing you, Unit Chief Shepard. 856 00:49:50,613 --> 00:49:53,532 I was at a fund-raiser for the university and I was talking to some... 857 00:49:53,616 --> 00:49:55,451 Yes, talking to people outside the FBI 858 00:49:55,534 --> 00:49:58,287 about something you were not even supposed to be aware of. 859 00:49:58,370 --> 00:50:01,957 The LEAA explained that the application was anticipated. 860 00:50:02,041 --> 00:50:03,667 How could that be, I wondered. 861 00:50:04,627 --> 00:50:07,671 It seems they know more about what's going on in our basement 862 00:50:07,755 --> 00:50:10,216 than I was comfortable including in the application. 863 00:50:10,299 --> 00:50:13,260 - I so apologize. It... - Sir, this is my fault. 864 00:50:13,344 --> 00:50:15,512 Your research has been awarded $200,000. 865 00:50:17,806 --> 00:50:19,141 - What? - There's more. 866 00:50:19,225 --> 00:50:21,435 As I said, I applied to more than one place for funding. 867 00:50:21,518 --> 00:50:24,355 The National Institute of Justice heard about the LEAA, 868 00:50:24,438 --> 00:50:25,648 and they are in competition, 869 00:50:25,731 --> 00:50:29,713 so the NIJ has awarded you an additional $185,000. 870 00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:30,861 You can't be serious. 871 00:50:30,945 --> 00:50:33,822 This amount of money comes with considerable scrutiny. 872 00:50:34,156 --> 00:50:35,908 And I'm not talking about bookkeeping, 873 00:50:35,991 --> 00:50:38,953 although you will certainly be required to keep meticulous records. 874 00:50:39,036 --> 00:50:43,624 I'm talking about Congress having a real interest in everything we do. 875 00:50:43,707 --> 00:50:47,419 So much for the protection I might have afforded you. 876 00:50:48,295 --> 00:50:50,381 Congratulations, I suppose. 877 00:50:51,757 --> 00:50:53,092 Have a nice day. 878 00:51:17,476 --> 00:51:22,476 synced & corrected by PopcornAWH www.addic7ed.com