1 00:02:24,853 --> 00:02:28,065 I saw that kid Spinks bust his ass the last time in Vegas. 2 00:02:28,148 --> 00:02:31,818 Oh, he got way too confident, boy. 3 00:02:33,737 --> 00:02:36,782 You should've seen that face when he left the ring. 4 00:02:40,619 --> 00:02:44,247 The Norton fight, too. Ali didn't have a prayer. 5 00:02:44,331 --> 00:02:46,249 - Norton's tough. - Huh! 6 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:48,413 Kept getting backed up into the corner. 7 00:02:48,438 --> 00:02:50,861 His gloves up all around his ears. 8 00:02:51,546 --> 00:02:54,174 Norton broke Ali's jaw. 9 00:02:54,257 --> 00:02:56,343 I remember that. 10 00:02:58,261 --> 00:03:01,515 Saw this interview with Ali's trainer. 11 00:03:02,140 --> 00:03:05,519 He said he didn't know what was wrong. 12 00:03:06,103 --> 00:03:09,356 The mouthpiece just kept coming out bloody. 13 00:03:11,775 --> 00:03:14,277 Oh! Norton got a lot of shots in, 14 00:03:15,404 --> 00:03:18,115 but still, that was something. 15 00:03:20,075 --> 00:03:25,831 It is not an easy thing to break a human being's jaw. 16 00:03:27,082 --> 00:03:28,542 Let me assure you... 17 00:03:30,127 --> 00:03:33,130 that takes practice. 18 00:03:37,926 --> 00:03:40,846 Hey, welcome to Oregon. 19 00:03:42,347 --> 00:03:43,432 Thanks. 20 00:03:45,517 --> 00:03:47,686 I'm Holden Ford, this is Bill Tench. 21 00:03:47,769 --> 00:03:49,169 We're with the Federal Bureau of... 22 00:03:49,193 --> 00:03:50,653 Can I get something to drink? 23 00:03:51,732 --> 00:03:52,816 Sure. Coffee? 24 00:03:52,899 --> 00:03:55,736 Coffee's okay, I guess. 25 00:03:56,278 --> 00:03:58,572 - Could we get him a coffee, please? - Actually... 26 00:03:59,406 --> 00:04:04,077 what I'd really love is some cigarettes and a pizza. 27 00:04:04,661 --> 00:04:07,164 - Afraid we can't help you with that. - Really? 28 00:04:07,247 --> 00:04:08,707 You're the FBI. 29 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:10,625 We can get you anything in the commissary. 30 00:04:10,709 --> 00:04:12,753 Well, fuck you for wasting my time. 31 00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:15,922 What? 32 00:04:16,006 --> 00:04:18,216 Just messing with you guys. 33 00:04:21,845 --> 00:04:23,221 Do you mind if we record? 34 00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:26,475 I don't know. Tony, do we mind? 35 00:04:26,558 --> 00:04:29,144 - You got the paperwork? - This was pre-approved. 36 00:04:29,227 --> 00:04:33,064 - Hey, I didn't approve anything. - You don't have to do this, Jerry. 37 00:04:34,775 --> 00:04:36,109 Okay. 38 00:04:36,193 --> 00:04:40,280 I'll do it, as long as I know I don't have to. 39 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:45,660 - We'll take it from here. - Yeah, Tony, I'm good. 40 00:04:56,087 --> 00:04:57,422 Mr. Brudos... 41 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:00,532 we are conducting interviews with people 42 00:05:00,557 --> 00:05:02,368 who've been convicted of violent crimes. 43 00:05:02,427 --> 00:05:04,455 What you discuss with us cannot be used 44 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:05,996 against you in your applications... 45 00:05:06,056 --> 00:05:07,516 That's your recorder? 46 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,519 Electronics these days keep getting smaller. 47 00:05:10,602 --> 00:05:12,020 Where's the mic? 48 00:05:12,896 --> 00:05:15,106 See that little shiny part on the top? 49 00:05:15,816 --> 00:05:17,275 No shit. 50 00:05:17,359 --> 00:05:20,737 You should see the cameras coming out, fit in your pocket. 51 00:05:24,282 --> 00:05:25,283 What you discuss with us 52 00:05:25,367 --> 00:05:28,328 cannot be used against you in your applications for parole. 53 00:05:28,829 --> 00:05:31,206 We will be asking you about your family history, 54 00:05:31,289 --> 00:05:32,791 antecedent behavior, 55 00:05:32,874 --> 00:05:35,836 and thought patterns surrounding the crimes you've been convicted of. 56 00:05:35,919 --> 00:05:38,755 Our goal is to eventually publish a statistical analysis 57 00:05:38,838 --> 00:05:40,757 which will not include your name. 58 00:05:46,221 --> 00:05:48,598 Thought this was gonna break the monotony. 59 00:05:48,682 --> 00:05:50,850 We can go straight to the questions, if you prefer. 60 00:05:50,934 --> 00:05:52,102 Please. 61 00:05:52,686 --> 00:05:53,687 Okay. 62 00:05:54,771 --> 00:05:56,690 Let's discuss the pre-crime phase. 63 00:05:56,773 --> 00:05:58,936 Specifically, the day before you killed 64 00:05:58,963 --> 00:06:00,844 your first victim, Laura Sullivan. 65 00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:03,113 I didn't kill Laura Sullivan. 66 00:06:04,155 --> 00:06:05,490 You didn't kill... 67 00:06:05,574 --> 00:06:09,119 They never found her body. I was never convicted of that murder. 68 00:06:09,202 --> 00:06:10,954 - But you confessed to it. - Nope. 69 00:06:11,955 --> 00:06:15,417 On... June 27, 1969, 70 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,060 you confessed to murdering 71 00:06:17,106 --> 00:06:19,403 Laura Sullivan, Jane Weber, and Kathy Schmidt. 72 00:06:19,462 --> 00:06:21,631 - Don't go by that. - Why not? 73 00:06:21,715 --> 00:06:23,592 It was given under coercion. 74 00:06:23,675 --> 00:06:25,176 You're saying it was forced? 75 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:27,304 I am looking at three consecutive life sentences 76 00:06:27,387 --> 00:06:30,015 thanks to an elaborate plot by the Portland PD. 77 00:06:30,932 --> 00:06:33,560 You pleaded guilty to three counts of murder. 78 00:06:33,643 --> 00:06:36,021 They drugged me. Beat me. 79 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:38,064 Wouldn't let me talk to a lawyer. 80 00:06:38,148 --> 00:06:39,649 Turned away my wife. 81 00:06:40,567 --> 00:06:43,028 Told me they'd go after my kids if I didn't confess. 82 00:06:43,111 --> 00:06:45,030 Are you saying you never met Laura Sullivan? 83 00:06:45,113 --> 00:06:47,866 Yeah, I met her. She was wandering around my front yard. 84 00:06:47,949 --> 00:06:49,509 - Selling encyclopedias. - That's right. 85 00:06:49,533 --> 00:06:51,059 That part of the confession is correct? 86 00:06:51,084 --> 00:06:52,239 Sure. 87 00:06:52,537 --> 00:06:54,164 You said... 88 00:06:55,624 --> 00:06:56,625 she was lost. 89 00:06:56,708 --> 00:06:59,461 It was raining, she couldn't find the right address. 90 00:06:59,544 --> 00:07:01,963 But you told her that you ordered the encyclopedias. 91 00:07:02,047 --> 00:07:03,047 Nope. 92 00:07:03,673 --> 00:07:04,674 You didn't say that? 93 00:07:04,758 --> 00:07:05,925 We got to chatting. 94 00:07:07,052 --> 00:07:08,970 She was an aspiring model. 95 00:07:09,054 --> 00:07:12,641 Not surprising, she was beautiful. 96 00:07:14,559 --> 00:07:16,519 I said I'd take some photos of her. 97 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:19,946 Is that when you invited her in, 98 00:07:20,013 --> 00:07:21,359 - took her to the garage? - Yep. 99 00:07:21,384 --> 00:07:23,777 Sent your wife and children out to get hamburgers? 100 00:07:23,860 --> 00:07:25,195 I thought we could use privacy. 101 00:07:25,278 --> 00:07:27,530 Then you hit her with a two-by-four? 102 00:07:31,159 --> 00:07:33,620 Actually, I realized I didn't have any film. 103 00:07:34,245 --> 00:07:36,790 I apologized for wasting her time, showed her out. 104 00:07:38,708 --> 00:07:39,709 Okay. 105 00:07:41,252 --> 00:07:43,264 The day before you met Laura Sullivan. 106 00:07:43,978 --> 00:07:45,527 Can you tell me what you were feeling? 107 00:07:45,552 --> 00:07:48,635 You consider yourself a bit of a photographer, right, Jerry? 108 00:07:48,718 --> 00:07:51,096 Got my first camera at 15. 109 00:07:51,179 --> 00:07:52,514 You're into ladies' fashions? 110 00:07:52,597 --> 00:07:55,767 Mm... it's women, isn't it? Can't call them ladies anymore. 111 00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:57,227 Women's fashions. 112 00:07:57,310 --> 00:07:59,688 I've got my magazine subscriptions, I know what's going on. 113 00:07:59,771 --> 00:08:02,232 - You subscribe to... - Mostly shoe catalogs. 114 00:08:03,191 --> 00:08:04,192 Shoe catalogs. 115 00:08:04,275 --> 00:08:05,360 It's my smut. 116 00:08:05,443 --> 00:08:06,987 So you masturbate to it? 117 00:08:07,779 --> 00:08:09,322 That's usually how it works. 118 00:08:09,406 --> 00:08:11,408 Did you masturbate to the photos of your victims? 119 00:08:11,950 --> 00:08:13,994 I'm not sure what you're talking about. 120 00:08:14,077 --> 00:08:16,246 The photos the police found in your garage? 121 00:08:17,789 --> 00:08:20,125 Did you see them? 122 00:08:20,208 --> 00:08:22,836 They're sloppy. I didn't take those. 123 00:08:22,919 --> 00:08:25,422 Actually, we did see them. There's one of them... 124 00:08:25,505 --> 00:08:27,007 Holden, maybe you can find it. 125 00:08:36,099 --> 00:08:37,892 Did you take this picture? 126 00:08:40,228 --> 00:08:41,228 I don't remember. 127 00:08:42,105 --> 00:08:44,566 Ever since the kids were small, I get these blackouts. 128 00:08:44,649 --> 00:08:46,401 It's hypoglycemia, low blood sugar. 129 00:08:46,484 --> 00:08:50,113 I could walk off the roof of a building and not know it. 130 00:08:52,782 --> 00:08:53,782 You see that? 131 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,828 That's you in the photo. 132 00:08:57,495 --> 00:08:59,456 Which means you took this photo. 133 00:09:00,331 --> 00:09:01,916 Which means you killed that girl. 134 00:09:04,961 --> 00:09:06,546 Boy, oh, boy. 135 00:09:08,423 --> 00:09:09,466 Kemper was right. 136 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:11,360 Kemper? 137 00:09:11,384 --> 00:09:13,428 He said you guys were idiots. 138 00:09:15,305 --> 00:09:18,224 But I'd call you fucking morons. 139 00:09:20,268 --> 00:09:22,479 Big Ed with his big mouth. 140 00:09:23,313 --> 00:09:28,860 I bet you swallowed every fucking line that came out of him. 141 00:09:28,943 --> 00:09:30,403 And he must have loved it. 142 00:09:30,487 --> 00:09:34,449 Wait a minute. As far as I know, all his communication is monitored. 143 00:09:34,532 --> 00:09:36,159 What can I say? 144 00:09:36,242 --> 00:09:38,411 Prisons are like knitting circles. 145 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,457 Word gets around. 146 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,546 Fuck if I know. We should find out. 147 00:09:48,637 --> 00:09:50,310 Well, yeah. It's got to affect the study 148 00:09:50,335 --> 00:09:51,831 if our subjects are all pen pals. 149 00:09:51,883 --> 00:09:54,010 I'll call the superintendent at Vacaville. 150 00:09:54,302 --> 00:09:55,887 Or let's just go back and ask. 151 00:09:56,638 --> 00:10:00,058 What are the chances the warden's gonna know what's going on? 152 00:10:00,141 --> 00:10:01,434 You might as well call. 153 00:10:01,518 --> 00:10:03,645 Do you really think that Kemper called us idiots? 154 00:10:04,229 --> 00:10:05,855 It doesn't sound like Ed to me. 155 00:10:08,733 --> 00:10:11,319 We could phone Kemper, ask him directly. 156 00:10:11,402 --> 00:10:14,656 - Ask him if he called us idiots? - If he talks to Brudos. 157 00:10:14,739 --> 00:10:16,616 Then we would be idiots. 158 00:10:16,699 --> 00:10:19,327 Excuse me. I believe I'm in the middle seat. 159 00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:22,288 Oh, yeah? Well, that's all right. You can have the aisle. 160 00:10:22,372 --> 00:10:24,958 Yes, but that's the seat number on my ticket. 161 00:10:25,041 --> 00:10:28,128 It's okay. My partner and I need to talk, works out for both of us. 162 00:10:29,629 --> 00:10:33,091 I really think it's best if I sat in the seat that's on my ticket. 163 00:10:41,057 --> 00:10:42,267 Thank you. 164 00:10:55,738 --> 00:10:56,823 Hey, Holden. 165 00:10:58,116 --> 00:10:59,325 Does this turn you on? 166 00:11:00,994 --> 00:11:02,036 Oh... 167 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,247 - But it's sexy, right? - Well, no. 168 00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:05,957 How different is it from this? 169 00:11:07,959 --> 00:11:09,586 I'd say it's pretty different. 170 00:11:10,253 --> 00:11:11,588 To us, maybe. 171 00:11:12,255 --> 00:11:13,256 This one... 172 00:11:13,339 --> 00:11:15,758 This could be in Playboy, easy. 173 00:11:17,302 --> 00:11:19,178 Movies, TV. 174 00:11:19,262 --> 00:11:21,306 Classic damsel in distress. 175 00:11:21,973 --> 00:11:24,809 So what are you saying, advertising creates psychos? 176 00:11:24,893 --> 00:11:26,311 All men are pervs? 177 00:11:26,394 --> 00:11:28,813 No, but sex is our trigger. 178 00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:30,773 I'm sure Wendy has a theory. 179 00:11:30,857 --> 00:11:33,568 But this? This is how we get to him. 180 00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:40,033 Please. I can switch with you. 181 00:11:40,658 --> 00:11:42,201 I'm enjoying the leg room. 182 00:11:45,455 --> 00:11:49,959 What can I say? Prisons are like knitting circles. 183 00:11:50,043 --> 00:11:52,629 Word gets around. 184 00:11:55,006 --> 00:11:56,716 - Fascinating. - You think so? 185 00:11:59,093 --> 00:12:01,596 Hypoglycemia? Is he lying or denying? 186 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:02,889 My vote's with lying. 187 00:12:03,932 --> 00:12:05,892 We can learn from what he doesn't tell us. 188 00:12:05,975 --> 00:12:08,256 You're not always going to get a Chatty Cathy like Kemper. 189 00:12:08,311 --> 00:12:10,271 Well, yeah, the whole talking to Kemper thing. 190 00:12:10,355 --> 00:12:12,899 We called around. There's no evidence they were in touch. 191 00:12:12,982 --> 00:12:15,652 - Which doesn't mean they haven't. - God, if only... 192 00:12:15,959 --> 00:12:18,080 If they're corresponding, it could screw up our thing. 193 00:12:18,105 --> 00:12:19,130 Really? 194 00:12:19,155 --> 00:12:21,755 How is the study valid if our subjects can compare notes? 195 00:12:21,824 --> 00:12:24,661 Wouldn't it be... cross-contamination? 196 00:12:24,744 --> 00:12:26,621 What would these two guys talk about? 197 00:12:26,704 --> 00:12:28,744 Would Brudos share with Kemper everything he's done? 198 00:12:29,374 --> 00:12:32,168 These are two organized killers, but they're on opposite sides 199 00:12:32,251 --> 00:12:34,291 of the spectrum when it comes to what they'll admit. 200 00:12:34,337 --> 00:12:36,089 Kemper is overly forthcoming. 201 00:12:36,172 --> 00:12:39,258 Brudos denies everything, even when confronted with evidence. 202 00:12:40,718 --> 00:12:42,804 It's a new behavior to sort by: 203 00:12:42,887 --> 00:12:46,057 post-conviction admission or non-admission of guilt. 204 00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:47,180 You're excited about this. 205 00:12:47,953 --> 00:12:48,953 I am. 206 00:12:48,977 --> 00:12:51,562 We didn't get anything useful out of that prick. 207 00:12:51,646 --> 00:12:52,689 I'm telling you, you did. 208 00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:56,234 Maybe in an academic sense, but this isn't only about your study. 209 00:12:56,317 --> 00:12:57,443 My study? 210 00:12:57,527 --> 00:13:00,029 Once we've collected all the data, we can all apply it. 211 00:13:00,113 --> 00:13:01,823 You mean, in four years? 212 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,658 I need coffee. 213 00:13:10,248 --> 00:13:12,709 - The way he lies is very interesting. - How so? 214 00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:14,210 Well, it's just so exaggerated. 215 00:13:14,293 --> 00:13:16,087 He can't possibly expect you to believe him. 216 00:13:16,170 --> 00:13:17,922 We called him on a lie, showed him evidence, 217 00:13:18,006 --> 00:13:19,424 and that ended the interview. 218 00:13:19,507 --> 00:13:21,092 So don't back him into a corner. 219 00:13:21,175 --> 00:13:23,761 Guys, post-conviction sorting? What good is that? 220 00:13:23,845 --> 00:13:25,930 We need pre-apprehension info, not post. 221 00:13:26,597 --> 00:13:28,683 You know, Bill, all categories are important 222 00:13:28,766 --> 00:13:30,518 for cross-referencing and sorting. 223 00:13:30,601 --> 00:13:33,229 I bet you dinner that this guy's got more to add. 224 00:13:34,788 --> 00:13:36,654 You read the story about the girl he held at knifepoint 225 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:37,945 when he was 15? 226 00:13:38,192 --> 00:13:40,486 Made her undress, took pictures, locked her in a corncrib. 227 00:13:40,570 --> 00:13:42,530 Then pretended to be his own twin brother. 228 00:13:42,613 --> 00:13:44,157 Right. And he talked all about Jerry. 229 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,325 - That shows how fucked up he is. - Maybe. 230 00:13:46,409 --> 00:13:48,929 There's something about disguise, pretending to be someone else. 231 00:13:48,953 --> 00:13:50,497 It gives him room for what? 232 00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:53,958 He said he started blacking out when his kids were small. 233 00:13:54,042 --> 00:13:56,294 So he isn't averse to talking about his family. 234 00:13:56,377 --> 00:13:58,046 Bill, you could talk about your son. 235 00:13:58,129 --> 00:13:59,714 - No. - Try. 236 00:13:59,797 --> 00:14:01,466 I'm not discussing my son with him. 237 00:14:01,549 --> 00:14:04,229 Well, you don't have to talk about your family. You can make one up. 238 00:14:04,302 --> 00:14:06,054 It's just about building rapport. 239 00:14:06,137 --> 00:14:10,099 And he asked for stuff, cigarettes and pizza. Indulge him. 240 00:14:14,604 --> 00:14:16,522 - When do you want to go back? - I don't. 241 00:14:17,231 --> 00:14:18,231 Next week? 242 00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:21,193 Sure. 243 00:14:27,742 --> 00:14:30,828 Hey, Holden. I asked a buddy of mine with the Portland PD. 244 00:14:30,912 --> 00:14:31,954 You might want to... 245 00:14:33,664 --> 00:14:34,664 On two. 246 00:14:48,971 --> 00:14:51,182 - Hello? - Mrs. Cooke? 247 00:14:51,265 --> 00:14:53,059 - Yes? - Who's Mrs. Cooke? 248 00:14:53,142 --> 00:14:55,561 - Mrs. Darcie Cooke? - Yes? 249 00:14:55,645 --> 00:14:58,731 Hi. My name is Bill Tench, I'm with the FBI. 250 00:15:01,067 --> 00:15:02,276 Is this about Jer? 251 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,987 About your ex-husband, Mr. Brudos. 252 00:15:05,822 --> 00:15:08,324 Am I required to talk to you? 253 00:15:08,408 --> 00:15:11,035 Well, no, but I only have a couple of questions. 254 00:15:11,119 --> 00:15:13,996 I'm sorry, I changed my last name for a reason. 255 00:15:19,335 --> 00:15:21,421 She said, "Is this about Jer?" 256 00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:22,921 "Jer." 257 00:15:24,632 --> 00:15:27,427 Those shirts looked good on you. I can't believe you didn't buy them. 258 00:15:27,885 --> 00:15:29,262 I don't like patterns. 259 00:15:29,762 --> 00:15:32,265 You know you dress the same off-duty as on-duty? 260 00:15:32,348 --> 00:15:33,975 I'm wearing plain clothes. 261 00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:35,977 Yeah, plain is right. 262 00:15:41,441 --> 00:15:43,234 - Ooh... - No. 263 00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:50,199 Seven and a half. 264 00:15:50,283 --> 00:15:53,035 - Are you sure? I usually wear a seven. - Hmm. 265 00:15:53,578 --> 00:15:55,371 Your shoes been a little tight lately? 266 00:15:56,164 --> 00:15:57,957 My boots, maybe, a little. 267 00:15:58,541 --> 00:16:01,878 Okay. Tell you what. I'll bring out seven-and-a-half in all these. 268 00:16:03,004 --> 00:16:05,590 Yes, please. Are my feet getting bigger? 269 00:16:07,091 --> 00:16:09,969 Well, it's just half a size. It's not that big a deal. 270 00:16:10,052 --> 00:16:11,304 I don't want big feet. 271 00:16:12,138 --> 00:16:15,391 - You do not have big feet. - That's right, and I don't want them. 272 00:16:18,394 --> 00:16:20,521 - No way. - Come on. 273 00:16:21,147 --> 00:16:22,565 I don't need new shoes. 274 00:16:23,191 --> 00:16:24,233 Please. 275 00:16:39,332 --> 00:16:41,250 - You look bitchin'. - Can I take it off now? 276 00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:43,669 - You don't like them? - I look like a Village Person. 277 00:16:43,753 --> 00:16:44,754 Ugh! Holden. 278 00:16:53,971 --> 00:16:55,932 - Excuse me, sir. - Yes. 279 00:16:56,724 --> 00:16:59,435 Could you tell me the largest size you have of that shoe? 280 00:16:59,714 --> 00:17:00,718 That one? 281 00:17:00,743 --> 00:17:02,179 - Yeah. - I'm not sure. 282 00:17:02,204 --> 00:17:03,296 I have to go take a look. 283 00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:05,191 Could you put a pair on hold for me? 284 00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:07,275 Sure. 285 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,306 Hello, ladies. 286 00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:39,392 Back for more? 287 00:17:39,475 --> 00:17:40,810 Tell us where to sit. 288 00:17:42,144 --> 00:17:44,146 That won't be necessary this time. 289 00:17:45,064 --> 00:17:46,190 Great. 290 00:17:50,736 --> 00:17:51,736 Want to arm wrestle? 291 00:17:53,197 --> 00:17:54,407 How about a smoke? 292 00:17:55,616 --> 00:17:57,243 Well, well, well. 293 00:17:59,870 --> 00:18:01,330 I want him to light me. 294 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,169 How'd you get that scar? 295 00:18:08,546 --> 00:18:09,839 Darcie... 296 00:18:09,922 --> 00:18:13,009 found out I was chasing skirt at OSU. 297 00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:15,636 - Came after me with a Ginsu. - No, really. 298 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,013 God's truth. 299 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:19,765 She loved horror films. 300 00:18:20,516 --> 00:18:22,018 We'd appreciate honesty. 301 00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:23,311 About my scar? 302 00:18:25,646 --> 00:18:28,065 We know that you've been jumped in here a few times. 303 00:18:29,859 --> 00:18:32,987 If you got all the answers, what do you need from me? 304 00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:35,526 - We want details. - We want to know why. 305 00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:36,668 Why what? 306 00:18:36,713 --> 00:18:38,242 Let's start with the women's clothes. 307 00:18:38,326 --> 00:18:40,286 Could you be more specific? 308 00:18:40,369 --> 00:18:42,022 In her testimony, 309 00:18:42,109 --> 00:18:45,190 your wife said you approached her dressed as a woman. 310 00:18:45,249 --> 00:18:46,834 Hmm... she said... 311 00:18:48,294 --> 00:18:50,880 whatever the police wanted her to say. 312 00:18:50,963 --> 00:18:53,924 But you did approach her dressed as a woman. 313 00:18:54,008 --> 00:18:55,635 - Are you married? - Yeah. 314 00:18:55,718 --> 00:18:58,179 - What's your wife's name? - None of your business. 315 00:18:58,262 --> 00:18:59,847 I appreciate honesty. 316 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,600 Nancy. 317 00:19:04,101 --> 00:19:07,813 How does Nancy deal with things that she doesn't understand? 318 00:19:07,897 --> 00:19:09,148 I don't follow. 319 00:19:09,231 --> 00:19:10,983 Let's just say, my wife... 320 00:19:12,777 --> 00:19:14,612 was less than adventurous. 321 00:19:14,695 --> 00:19:18,157 - You were young when you got married. - Twenty-two. She was 17. 322 00:19:18,491 --> 00:19:20,826 - What was it about her? - She popped my cherry. 323 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:22,370 That seems old-fashioned. 324 00:19:22,453 --> 00:19:24,705 You married the first girl you had sex with? 325 00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:27,083 It wasn't that unusual in 1961. 326 00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:30,795 But you had... "interests" by then. 327 00:19:31,295 --> 00:19:33,631 Stealing lingerie off of clotheslines. 328 00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:36,717 You photographed a neighborhood girl naked when you were 15. 329 00:19:36,801 --> 00:19:39,470 Just a healthy, red-blooded American male. 330 00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:41,972 - What about the shoes? - What shoes? 331 00:19:42,056 --> 00:19:43,307 In your garage. 332 00:19:43,391 --> 00:19:44,934 - The women's shoes. - Ah. 333 00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:47,353 The wife loved to shop. 334 00:19:47,436 --> 00:19:50,773 There were nearly a hundred pairs. Most of them size 16. 335 00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:53,192 Ah, those. Friends sent those to me. 336 00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:54,860 - Friends? - That's right. 337 00:19:54,944 --> 00:19:56,821 Why would friends send you shoes? 338 00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:02,576 Started as a goof. Got out of hand. 339 00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:03,660 That's interesting. 340 00:20:05,996 --> 00:20:07,748 - What's that? - Hmm? 341 00:20:10,584 --> 00:20:12,545 A reward for honesty. 342 00:20:12,628 --> 00:20:15,589 Come on, Jerry. Your friends didn't send you those shoes. 343 00:20:15,673 --> 00:20:18,843 What can I say, I'm a collector. 344 00:20:18,926 --> 00:20:20,010 Do you wear them? 345 00:20:20,094 --> 00:20:21,595 I don't have to. 346 00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:23,639 Don't have to, to what? 347 00:20:24,265 --> 00:20:26,100 - You know. - Get off. 348 00:20:26,911 --> 00:20:27,911 He's adorable. 349 00:20:27,935 --> 00:20:30,146 I thought wearing them was part of the allure? 350 00:20:32,273 --> 00:20:35,526 - Why's he so interested? - I'm really just asking for Darcie. 351 00:20:35,609 --> 00:20:38,154 She still doesn't get it. We caught up on the phone. 352 00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:39,739 - Right. - Nice woman. 353 00:20:41,073 --> 00:20:42,241 My wife... 354 00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:44,226 wouldn't talk about me. 355 00:20:44,273 --> 00:20:45,327 Ex-wife. 356 00:20:45,411 --> 00:20:47,413 She had to divorce me to protect the kids. 357 00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:48,998 And change her last name? 358 00:20:50,458 --> 00:20:53,043 I'm sure it makes it easier for them in school. 359 00:20:53,127 --> 00:20:54,962 What would they say to their friends? 360 00:20:55,045 --> 00:20:58,132 Not just about the murders. How do you explain the cross-dressing? 361 00:20:58,215 --> 00:21:00,426 "Dad's a tranny? Dad's a fag?" 362 00:21:00,509 --> 00:21:01,969 Fuck you, man. 363 00:21:02,052 --> 00:21:04,346 How does it fucking work with the shoes? 364 00:21:05,055 --> 00:21:07,600 He is dying to know. 365 00:21:07,683 --> 00:21:11,145 I'll pass it along to Darcie. Ten years later, she's still confused. 366 00:21:11,228 --> 00:21:14,273 - Give her my love. - I'll do that... Jer. 367 00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:19,319 Tony! Hey! 368 00:21:19,862 --> 00:21:21,363 - Get in here! - What are you doing? 369 00:21:21,447 --> 00:21:22,567 Go fuck yourselves. 370 00:21:22,591 --> 00:21:24,909 - They're just questions. - I've had enough. 371 00:21:24,992 --> 00:21:26,792 - What's going on? - I'm done. 372 00:21:26,816 --> 00:21:28,401 - Wait a minute. - I'm done! 373 00:21:28,484 --> 00:21:29,830 Bill, tell him. 374 00:21:29,914 --> 00:21:32,917 We didn't talk to your stupid wife. She hung up on us. 375 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,835 And you're forgetting something. 376 00:21:56,774 --> 00:21:58,692 Ah... 377 00:22:00,069 --> 00:22:01,153 Brand new. 378 00:22:01,737 --> 00:22:03,572 They're the biggest size they had. 379 00:22:11,247 --> 00:22:13,749 You should have brought me a pair of Nancy's. 380 00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:15,459 - Fuck you. - Fuck you. 381 00:22:27,054 --> 00:22:30,182 So when did it start, your interest in women's shoes? 382 00:22:30,266 --> 00:22:32,184 It didn't start. It was always there. 383 00:22:33,143 --> 00:22:37,523 There must have been a moment during puberty when it became... sexual. 384 00:22:37,606 --> 00:22:39,733 I got my first pair of heels at five. 385 00:22:39,817 --> 00:22:40,817 Five? 386 00:22:41,443 --> 00:22:43,988 - Five years old? - Stilettos. 387 00:22:44,071 --> 00:22:46,490 Found them in the junkyard, brought 'em home. 388 00:22:46,574 --> 00:22:47,575 Why? 389 00:22:47,658 --> 00:22:50,703 Never seen anything like 'em before, except in pictures. 390 00:22:50,786 --> 00:22:52,621 Didn't your mom wear heels? 391 00:22:52,705 --> 00:22:53,706 Never. 392 00:22:55,499 --> 00:22:57,219 What'd she think when you brought them home? 393 00:23:04,967 --> 00:23:07,219 One time, my mom walked in on me jacking off. 394 00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:08,970 Came into my bedroom. 395 00:23:09,013 --> 00:23:11,390 - I hadn't locked the door. - Really? 396 00:23:12,808 --> 00:23:13,934 - Yeah. - What'd she do? 397 00:23:14,476 --> 00:23:16,270 I'd never seen her so shocked. 398 00:23:16,353 --> 00:23:19,231 It's like I was doing something too horrible to even imagine. 399 00:23:19,315 --> 00:23:20,858 She thought I needed help. 400 00:23:21,275 --> 00:23:23,235 She offered to help? 401 00:23:23,319 --> 00:23:27,865 Psychological help. 402 00:23:27,948 --> 00:23:31,827 - My mom burned the shoes. - The stilettos? 403 00:23:31,910 --> 00:23:33,829 Dragged me into the backyard, 404 00:23:33,912 --> 00:23:36,165 poured kerosene all over 'em, lit 'em up. 405 00:23:36,915 --> 00:23:39,835 - That must have been memorable. - She always said she wanted a girl. 406 00:23:41,503 --> 00:23:43,297 She wanted you to be a girl? 407 00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:45,591 She had my brother, that's what she wanted next. 408 00:23:45,674 --> 00:23:47,718 - She told you this? - All the time. 409 00:23:47,801 --> 00:23:50,054 Why was she so upset when you brought home the shoes? 410 00:23:50,846 --> 00:23:52,931 I was wearing 'em around the house. 411 00:23:54,099 --> 00:23:56,393 Were you trying to be what she wanted you to be? 412 00:23:56,477 --> 00:23:57,477 What? 413 00:23:57,978 --> 00:24:00,189 Were you trying to be a girl? 414 00:24:02,983 --> 00:24:06,362 Fuck no, I never wanted to be a girl. 415 00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:08,989 I liked the shoes. 416 00:24:09,073 --> 00:24:11,659 I didn't know why she was so angry. 417 00:24:11,742 --> 00:24:13,195 I took a pair of my teacher's shoes, 418 00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:15,103 and she didn't lose her fucking mind. 419 00:24:15,162 --> 00:24:16,246 Your teacher's shoes? 420 00:24:16,330 --> 00:24:18,207 Mrs. Kernegan. First grade. 421 00:24:19,375 --> 00:24:21,395 She'd kick her shoes off under the desk. 422 00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:22,430 Heels? 423 00:24:22,455 --> 00:24:25,255 Low, but stylish. She checked our book bags. 424 00:24:25,339 --> 00:24:28,217 When she found them on me, I thought she'd go berserk, 425 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,136 but... she was just curious. 426 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:33,222 - About what? - Why I had taken them. 427 00:24:37,768 --> 00:24:40,229 Women always want to know, don't they? 428 00:24:40,979 --> 00:24:43,357 - At least they think they do. - Did Darcie want to know? 429 00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:48,696 It's tricky when you're married. 430 00:24:49,530 --> 00:24:52,282 You either have to deny yourself or... 431 00:24:52,866 --> 00:24:54,410 keep a private space. 432 00:24:54,493 --> 00:24:55,619 Like a golf course. 433 00:24:57,830 --> 00:25:00,499 I put a lock on the garage, installed an intercom 434 00:25:00,582 --> 00:25:03,022 so she could call in if she needed something from the freezer. 435 00:25:03,085 --> 00:25:04,631 Wouldn't want her finding your trophies. 436 00:25:08,006 --> 00:25:11,468 She would not have wanted that. 437 00:25:37,411 --> 00:25:38,620 What the fuck? 438 00:25:43,333 --> 00:25:44,333 Tony! 439 00:25:44,877 --> 00:25:47,254 - That was amazing. - Yeah, that was great. 440 00:25:47,337 --> 00:25:49,423 All that shit about his mom burning the shoes. 441 00:25:49,506 --> 00:25:50,506 Uh-huh. 442 00:25:51,133 --> 00:25:52,426 The high heels worked. 443 00:25:52,509 --> 00:25:53,802 You could say that. 444 00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:55,763 Let me ask you something. 445 00:25:56,305 --> 00:25:58,432 Was that true about your mom walking in on you? 446 00:25:58,515 --> 00:26:00,893 - Yeah. - It didn't bother you, using that? 447 00:26:00,976 --> 00:26:03,562 Who doesn't have a weird story about their mom and sex? 448 00:26:03,854 --> 00:26:07,649 You're telling a private, personal story to a murderous asshole. 449 00:26:10,611 --> 00:26:11,653 It bothered me. 450 00:26:18,535 --> 00:26:21,914 Is this about Nancy? 451 00:26:25,436 --> 00:26:26,436 Nothing wrong with... 452 00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:28,378 If what we're doing doesn't get under your skin, 453 00:26:28,462 --> 00:26:30,923 you're more screwed up than I thought or kidding yourself. 454 00:26:48,857 --> 00:26:52,569 You're just like a son to me. You never did nothing I told you to do. 455 00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:58,492 Hey, Archie. We want you and Ma to come visit us out there. 456 00:26:59,368 --> 00:27:02,538 Well, maybe your mother-in-law can do that, but, you know... 457 00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:23,242 Hello? 458 00:28:25,412 --> 00:28:27,456 Where are you? 459 00:29:54,543 --> 00:29:57,004 They almost said it was our fault. 460 00:29:57,087 --> 00:30:00,757 Jesus, Nancy. I don't know what to say. 461 00:30:00,841 --> 00:30:03,260 Well, I was hoping for a little more than that. 462 00:30:03,343 --> 00:30:05,178 I can't talk about this now. Okay? 463 00:30:05,262 --> 00:30:07,822 Brian's teacher thinks we're not paying enough attention to this. 464 00:30:08,557 --> 00:30:10,434 That's why he's acting out. 465 00:30:11,393 --> 00:30:13,113 - We have to do something. - Uh-huh. 466 00:30:13,854 --> 00:30:16,648 Is that a "Uh-huh, I know," or is that "Uh-huh, uh-huh"? 467 00:30:16,732 --> 00:30:18,066 The first. 468 00:30:20,027 --> 00:30:21,945 You want to go to Lamplighter tonight or not? 469 00:30:22,029 --> 00:30:24,197 Sure. But why are you being like this? 470 00:30:24,281 --> 00:30:26,992 Like I said, I really can't talk about this now. Okay? 471 00:30:27,701 --> 00:30:29,244 - Did you finish it? - I did. 472 00:30:30,537 --> 00:30:32,331 It's pretty great, right? 473 00:30:32,414 --> 00:30:34,499 Can you believe what he said about his mom? 474 00:30:37,377 --> 00:30:39,212 - Did you listen to it? - Mm-hmm. 475 00:30:41,381 --> 00:30:43,258 What's in the box? 476 00:30:43,342 --> 00:30:45,802 Holden's idea. You figure it out? 477 00:30:45,886 --> 00:30:47,512 I'm guessing shoes. 478 00:30:47,596 --> 00:30:48,847 He got an erection. 479 00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:51,475 - Isn't that what you wanted? - We wanted to get him talking. 480 00:30:51,558 --> 00:30:53,053 No, you baited him with those shoes 481 00:30:53,078 --> 00:30:54,358 and you lied to him about his wife. 482 00:30:54,394 --> 00:30:57,147 He pulled that bullshit about Kemper, so we used the same tactic. 483 00:30:57,230 --> 00:31:00,609 - So it was revenge? - No. Speaking his language. 484 00:31:00,692 --> 00:31:02,986 This is a scientific study, not a locker room hazing. 485 00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:04,488 - Let me explain. - Please. 486 00:31:04,571 --> 00:31:06,948 Guys communicate in a certain way. 487 00:31:07,032 --> 00:31:10,369 It can be rough, but it's like a code, it gets out the conflict. 488 00:31:10,452 --> 00:31:12,746 Well, thank you for illuminating me on male rituals. 489 00:31:13,205 --> 00:31:15,165 You threw our questionnaire right out the window. 490 00:31:15,248 --> 00:31:16,888 Your questionnaire, which wasn't working. 491 00:31:16,917 --> 00:31:18,365 All you wanted to do was force him 492 00:31:18,390 --> 00:31:19,944 to admit that he wears women's clothes. 493 00:31:20,003 --> 00:31:22,047 Yeah, get under his disguise. 494 00:31:22,130 --> 00:31:24,257 Cross-dressing is part of his psychology. 495 00:31:24,341 --> 00:31:28,011 His fixation on women's clothes, women's bodies, wanting to own them, 496 00:31:28,095 --> 00:31:29,471 wanting to inhabit them. 497 00:31:29,554 --> 00:31:32,265 If we can understand that, we can recognize it in another killer. 498 00:31:32,349 --> 00:31:35,950 Cross-dressing is not an antecedent to homicidal behavior. 499 00:31:35,997 --> 00:31:37,079 I didn't say that. 500 00:31:37,104 --> 00:31:39,689 For most people, it's a harmless form of expression. 501 00:31:39,773 --> 00:31:41,274 - Most people? - Those who do it. 502 00:31:41,358 --> 00:31:44,528 But it's usually sexual, right? And we know sex drives our subjects. 503 00:31:44,611 --> 00:31:45,821 It's sometimes sexual. 504 00:31:45,904 --> 00:31:48,490 Transvestism has been practiced in every era, 505 00:31:48,573 --> 00:31:49,973 - in every human culture. - Come on. 506 00:31:49,997 --> 00:31:51,993 If you want to teach a class, go back to Boston. 507 00:31:52,077 --> 00:31:53,745 No, you weren't speaking his language. 508 00:31:53,829 --> 00:31:55,642 You were persecuting him about something 509 00:31:55,667 --> 00:31:57,688 that challenges your masculinity. 510 00:31:57,916 --> 00:31:59,709 - What? - That interview was personal. 511 00:31:59,793 --> 00:32:02,671 - No, this is personal. - Guys. 512 00:32:02,754 --> 00:32:04,381 - You're being irrational. - Oh, Jesus. 513 00:32:04,464 --> 00:32:06,144 - Where's this coming from? - I don't know. 514 00:32:06,168 --> 00:32:08,510 Maybe shock at your total lack of objectivity. 515 00:32:08,593 --> 00:32:10,353 - We were supposed to be objective? - Mm-hmm. 516 00:32:10,377 --> 00:32:12,010 I seem to remember you encouraging us 517 00:32:12,037 --> 00:32:13,622 to use our families to get to him. 518 00:32:13,682 --> 00:32:16,017 - How objective is that? - We have to use strategies. 519 00:32:16,101 --> 00:32:18,895 I said use fake information, as long as you establish rapport... 520 00:32:18,979 --> 00:32:21,523 That's not what you said. And it's not possible. 521 00:32:21,606 --> 00:32:23,167 It is not possible to communicate 522 00:32:23,192 --> 00:32:24,925 with someone like Brudos and be fake. 523 00:32:24,985 --> 00:32:27,278 We can hassle him or we can open up to him, 524 00:32:27,303 --> 00:32:29,054 but either option has a cost. 525 00:32:34,494 --> 00:32:35,871 Musical therapy. 526 00:32:37,164 --> 00:32:38,790 She comes highly recommended. 527 00:32:38,874 --> 00:32:41,376 She has like ten years of experience... Oh. 528 00:32:48,008 --> 00:32:49,008 Thank you. 529 00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:53,388 The only thing is, she's in Charlottesville. 530 00:32:54,347 --> 00:32:56,183 I looked for someone in D.C. 531 00:32:56,433 --> 00:32:59,394 You'd think they'd have music therapists in D.C. 532 00:32:59,478 --> 00:33:00,938 with all the politicians' kids there, 533 00:33:00,963 --> 00:33:04,173 but... maybe it's considered too alternative. 534 00:33:05,233 --> 00:33:08,028 I don't know that she's a hippie. I only talked to her on the phone. 535 00:33:08,111 --> 00:33:11,198 But she... she sounded very nice. 536 00:33:11,907 --> 00:33:12,908 Professional. 537 00:33:20,207 --> 00:33:21,750 I could drive him there once a week. 538 00:33:21,833 --> 00:33:23,713 Maybe even get him out of school a little early, 539 00:33:23,793 --> 00:33:26,796 which could also be a good thing, after what happened today. 540 00:33:30,133 --> 00:33:32,177 - How much is she? - Forty-five. 541 00:33:33,595 --> 00:33:34,846 An hour? 542 00:33:34,930 --> 00:33:36,264 An hour and a half. 543 00:33:37,682 --> 00:33:40,685 - Nancy, that's a lot. - You spend that much on a golf club. 544 00:33:41,728 --> 00:33:44,105 Yeah, but when you buy a club, you have the club. 545 00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:50,529 I got a recommendation for a child psychologist in Woodbridge, 546 00:33:50,612 --> 00:33:51,696 much closer. 547 00:33:52,614 --> 00:33:54,866 - You got a recommendation? When? - Mm-hmm. 548 00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:56,576 About a month ago. 549 00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:57,869 Why didn't you tell me? 550 00:33:58,370 --> 00:34:00,664 Because I really don't want to send him to a shrink. 551 00:34:00,747 --> 00:34:02,067 - Me neither. - But at that price, 552 00:34:02,123 --> 00:34:04,793 I'd rather send him to a doctor than some hippie musician. 553 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:07,379 Please. This is not about the money. 554 00:34:07,462 --> 00:34:08,547 Of course not. 555 00:34:10,048 --> 00:34:11,049 I was... 556 00:34:14,761 --> 00:34:16,680 I was hoping it wouldn't go this far. 557 00:34:53,633 --> 00:34:54,926 It's a private school. 558 00:34:55,594 --> 00:34:58,305 If he keeps biting other children, he's gonna get kicked out. 559 00:34:58,388 --> 00:35:00,849 He's getting bullied, so he's defending himself. 560 00:35:01,308 --> 00:35:02,829 We should have held him back a year. 561 00:35:02,854 --> 00:35:04,501 I don't think that's the problem. 562 00:35:05,312 --> 00:35:07,522 He's fine with me, he's great with Julie. 563 00:35:13,028 --> 00:35:15,655 I've read a couple of books which recommend music therapy 564 00:35:15,739 --> 00:35:17,657 when a child needs communication training. 565 00:35:17,741 --> 00:35:20,785 "Communication training." Is that what the books call it? 566 00:35:20,869 --> 00:35:22,996 Sure describes what we need. 567 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,791 I'm exhausted, Nancy. Could we table this for tonight? 568 00:35:31,463 --> 00:35:33,506 Looks like we gotta do it ourselves. 569 00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:34,883 Let's work on these ropes. 570 00:35:36,868 --> 00:35:38,011 Hi, Julie. 571 00:35:38,094 --> 00:35:39,971 It's no use! 572 00:35:40,055 --> 00:35:42,599 We're home a little early tonight. 573 00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:46,394 Hey. 574 00:35:46,936 --> 00:35:48,313 Is everything okay? 575 00:35:49,064 --> 00:35:50,065 Is Brian all right? 576 00:35:50,148 --> 00:35:51,316 He's asleep. 577 00:35:52,817 --> 00:35:54,319 Did something happen? 578 00:35:54,402 --> 00:35:57,656 When I was putting him to bed, I found something under it. 579 00:35:57,739 --> 00:35:59,783 - What did you find? - I don't have change, 580 00:35:59,866 --> 00:36:01,159 so here's a little bonus. 581 00:36:05,955 --> 00:36:07,595 She found this under Brian's bed. 582 00:36:12,087 --> 00:36:13,254 Julie, I'm so sorry. 583 00:36:13,797 --> 00:36:16,899 You know I'm an FBI agent. I work on some rough cases. 584 00:36:16,924 --> 00:36:18,486 He must have got this out of my office. 585 00:36:18,511 --> 00:36:19,973 I should lock that file cabinet. 586 00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:22,013 Honey, you shouldn't have had to see that. 587 00:36:22,097 --> 00:36:23,181 Brian saw it, too. 588 00:36:23,264 --> 00:36:24,264 Of course. 589 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:27,185 - We really messed up. - I messed up. 590 00:36:27,268 --> 00:36:28,436 He gets into things. 591 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,240 We need to keep a closer eye on him. 592 00:36:30,264 --> 00:36:32,524 - We'll find a way to explain it. - I'll talk to him, 593 00:36:32,607 --> 00:36:34,447 make sure he understands there's nothing wrong. 594 00:36:34,859 --> 00:36:37,612 - Nothing's wrong? - Honey, come here. 595 00:36:39,406 --> 00:36:41,241 - Are you all right? - Um... 596 00:36:41,324 --> 00:36:42,670 I've been meaning to tell you, 597 00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:45,102 my parents want me to get some real job experience, 598 00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:47,789 so I'm applying at the mall and... 599 00:36:47,872 --> 00:36:50,709 But you'd still be able to sit for us sometimes, right? 600 00:36:51,292 --> 00:36:53,086 I think it's going to be hard. 601 00:36:53,169 --> 00:36:55,505 Julie, honey... 602 00:36:56,172 --> 00:36:57,716 you've been with us for years. 603 00:36:58,341 --> 00:36:59,718 I'm sorry, Mrs. Tench. 604 00:36:59,801 --> 00:37:01,052 Don't forget your money. 605 00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:05,974 Please say goodbye to Brian for me. 606 00:37:06,933 --> 00:37:07,933 Julie... 607 00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:17,402 I know that file cabinet has a lock. I just have to find the key. 608 00:37:18,570 --> 00:37:19,863 Or get a new one. 609 00:37:20,405 --> 00:37:21,990 That one's 20 years old. 610 00:37:23,575 --> 00:37:25,243 Kid's kind of a Houdini, though. 611 00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:27,120 Maybe I should get a safe. 612 00:37:28,663 --> 00:37:30,123 Why is it in the house at all? 613 00:37:31,958 --> 00:37:34,002 It's work. I have to bring it home sometimes. 614 00:37:34,085 --> 00:37:36,463 That? You have to bring that home? 615 00:37:37,714 --> 00:37:38,923 What do you do with it? 616 00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,676 Examine it for clues. 617 00:37:43,261 --> 00:37:45,513 You don't tell me a thing about what you do. 618 00:37:46,097 --> 00:37:47,097 Now you know why. 619 00:37:47,474 --> 00:37:50,074 - You don't need to protect me. - I'm trying to protect everybody. 620 00:37:50,098 --> 00:37:52,391 No, you need to protect your son. 621 00:37:53,021 --> 00:37:55,523 What was he doing in my office in the first place? 622 00:37:56,524 --> 00:38:00,111 We can't watch him every second. He's always trying to get in there. 623 00:38:00,195 --> 00:38:01,613 Because he knows it's not allowed. 624 00:38:01,696 --> 00:38:04,616 - I should put a lock on the door. - He's trying to get closer to you! 625 00:38:05,784 --> 00:38:07,619 Sometimes I find him in our closet. 626 00:38:07,702 --> 00:38:10,538 He's putting on your ties. He's walking around in your shoes. 627 00:38:13,082 --> 00:38:15,877 I'm here on the weekends now. I'm putting in the time. 628 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,380 When you're not at the golf course, you're angling to get there. 629 00:38:20,507 --> 00:38:22,509 When you're playing with him, you check your watch. 630 00:38:22,592 --> 00:38:25,845 - Well, to be honest, he's not much fun. - He's not much fun? 631 00:38:25,929 --> 00:38:27,972 I know how that sounds, but I've tried. 632 00:38:28,056 --> 00:38:31,267 - He's just not interested. - It takes more than turning up, Bill. 633 00:38:31,601 --> 00:38:35,104 Okay, you... you need to play with him. 634 00:38:35,188 --> 00:38:38,233 I can't have a conversation with him. I can't get a hug out of him. 635 00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:40,235 I can't even get him to look me in the eye. 636 00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:42,487 - He is not beyond hope. - Well, maybe I am. 637 00:38:43,321 --> 00:38:44,489 Want to know what I do? 638 00:38:44,572 --> 00:38:46,908 Want to see what I work on every night? Come on. 639 00:38:48,785 --> 00:38:49,994 That's the tip of the iceberg. 640 00:38:51,371 --> 00:38:53,790 A young mother with a boy Brian's age. 641 00:38:53,873 --> 00:38:55,750 Killer did the same thing to him. 642 00:38:55,834 --> 00:38:58,419 You want to see that photo? I got it here somewhere. 643 00:38:59,045 --> 00:39:00,463 This one's interesting. 644 00:39:00,547 --> 00:39:03,258 A woman who was stabbed, raped, breasts cut off. 645 00:39:03,341 --> 00:39:06,010 Turns out it was her boyfriend, his brother, and their sister. 646 00:39:06,094 --> 00:39:07,387 A little family affair. 647 00:39:08,096 --> 00:39:09,571 Here's the one I'm working on now. 648 00:39:09,596 --> 00:39:11,373 Lovely guy by the name of Jerry Brudos. 649 00:39:11,432 --> 00:39:13,560 Murdered four women not much older than Julie. 650 00:39:13,643 --> 00:39:15,436 Strung them up in his garage. 651 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,446 One of them came to his door accidentally. 652 00:39:17,471 --> 00:39:18,964 One of them had car trouble. 653 00:39:19,029 --> 00:39:20,943 One of them he grabbed from a parking garage 654 00:39:20,968 --> 00:39:23,389 she was on her way to lunch with her mom. 655 00:39:35,373 --> 00:39:36,374 I'm sorry. 656 00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:38,209 I know. 657 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,089 I'm sorry. 658 00:41:15,723 --> 00:41:16,891 Your favorite... 659 00:41:18,977 --> 00:41:20,478 Quantico Blend. 660 00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:24,481 Thank you. 661 00:41:28,736 --> 00:41:30,863 - The mom. - Hmm? 662 00:41:30,947 --> 00:41:32,699 The mom and the shoes. 663 00:41:33,366 --> 00:41:34,742 Something happened there. 664 00:41:36,577 --> 00:41:37,578 Clearly. 665 00:41:40,123 --> 00:41:41,207 What was it? 666 00:41:42,083 --> 00:41:43,209 Her reaction? 667 00:41:47,463 --> 00:41:48,631 The force of it. 668 00:41:49,757 --> 00:41:52,719 Burning the shoes seared them into his mind as forbidden. 669 00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:56,764 Which became part of the sexual fantasy. 670 00:41:58,975 --> 00:42:01,644 Then the teacher had an entirely different reaction. 671 00:42:01,853 --> 00:42:03,643 So he's getting mixed messages 672 00:42:03,668 --> 00:42:06,173 from two adult women about his impulses. 673 00:42:09,068 --> 00:42:13,281 Brudos said that he was attracted to women's shoes before all of that. 674 00:42:14,282 --> 00:42:16,576 He took the stilettos from the dump when he was five. 675 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,954 Not everyone agrees with Freud's theories on sexuality, 676 00:42:20,038 --> 00:42:22,019 but he did hit upon how young we are 677 00:42:22,044 --> 00:42:24,024 when we start to form preferences. 678 00:42:24,083 --> 00:42:25,501 So when did that come in? 679 00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:28,796 How did it get tied to his sexuality? 680 00:42:29,255 --> 00:42:32,383 Was there a point at which someone could have... intervened? 681 00:42:32,467 --> 00:42:34,385 Well, you're asking the right questions. 682 00:42:34,886 --> 00:42:36,179 I want the right answers. 683 00:42:36,262 --> 00:42:37,305 Don't we all. 684 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,642 - I'm glad you're here. - Well... 685 00:42:56,991 --> 00:42:59,994 Hey, Bill. I've been thinking about another angle with Brudos. 686 00:43:00,078 --> 00:43:02,663 Remember what Wendy said about deflecting responsibility? 687 00:43:02,747 --> 00:43:03,748 Save it. 688 00:43:12,340 --> 00:43:13,700 Fairfield Police Department. 689 00:43:13,724 --> 00:43:17,232 May I speak with Detective McGraw? This is Bill Tench with the FBI. 690 00:43:17,257 --> 00:43:18,523 He's out right now. Can I take a message? 691 00:43:18,548 --> 00:43:19,614 Yes. 692 00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:22,433 Ask him to look at the photos from the Ada Jeffries case. 693 00:43:22,517 --> 00:43:24,037 - Ada Jeffries? - That's right. 694 00:43:24,102 --> 00:43:26,729 Tell him to look at the knots that were used to tie her up. 695 00:43:26,813 --> 00:43:29,982 They're nautical and Fairfield is landlocked. 696 00:43:30,525 --> 00:43:32,276 - Okay, I'll let him know. - Thank you. 697 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,571 - You're back on Fairfield? - We said we'd take a look. 698 00:43:35,596 --> 00:43:36,709 Are you sure there's still something... 699 00:43:36,734 --> 00:43:38,666 Holden, leave me alone. 700 00:43:40,409 --> 00:43:42,787 Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed. 701 00:43:45,498 --> 00:43:46,498 Bill. 702 00:43:48,209 --> 00:43:51,420 What I was saying yesterday about remaining objective, 703 00:43:51,504 --> 00:43:53,214 you were right, it's bullshit. 704 00:43:53,798 --> 00:43:54,966 It's very hard. 705 00:43:55,591 --> 00:43:56,926 I've been around crazy. 706 00:43:57,009 --> 00:43:58,511 I was in the army. 707 00:43:58,594 --> 00:44:00,263 Road School was a cakewalk. 708 00:44:00,346 --> 00:44:02,019 I didn't mind talking about this stuff. 709 00:44:02,044 --> 00:44:04,926 But... what the fuck did I even know? 710 00:44:05,031 --> 00:44:07,004 These people are extremely damaged, 711 00:44:07,029 --> 00:44:09,044 and they know how to cause damage. 712 00:44:09,772 --> 00:44:11,524 I'm running on fumes. 713 00:44:11,607 --> 00:44:12,733 Can you take a break? 714 00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:14,694 - No. - Talk to someone? 715 00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:17,738 - I'm talking to you. - No, a professional. 716 00:44:17,822 --> 00:44:19,407 You are professional. 717 00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:21,250 I'm your coworker. I can't be your therapist. 718 00:44:21,325 --> 00:44:24,579 Therapist? It's not like that. 719 00:44:25,371 --> 00:44:27,915 Times have changed. You don't have to be the good soldier. 720 00:44:30,877 --> 00:44:32,420 He's fucking immune. 721 00:44:33,921 --> 00:44:35,423 How do I tap into that? 722 00:45:05,286 --> 00:45:08,039 - Hello, there. - Oh, my God. You look fantastic. 723 00:45:08,122 --> 00:45:09,165 So do you. 724 00:45:10,333 --> 00:45:13,294 I am so happy to be done with exams. 725 00:45:14,879 --> 00:45:16,672 Mm... I made dinner. 726 00:45:17,506 --> 00:45:21,636 Oh. 727 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,930 That was astounding. 728 00:45:24,013 --> 00:45:25,431 Well, don't sound so surprised. 729 00:45:25,514 --> 00:45:28,643 - You've been holding out on me. - Isn't that what nice girls do? 730 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:30,353 It worked. Marry me. 731 00:45:30,436 --> 00:45:32,104 So I can cook for you? No. 732 00:45:34,482 --> 00:45:36,067 To your culinary skills. 733 00:45:38,986 --> 00:45:41,155 - To your fellatio skills. - Just stop. 734 00:45:41,238 --> 00:45:42,406 To changing my life. 735 00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:43,908 To opening my mind. 736 00:45:45,576 --> 00:45:47,578 Inspiring me to go back to school. 737 00:45:47,662 --> 00:45:48,996 Wasn't this toast about me? 738 00:45:52,166 --> 00:45:54,085 I want you to know that I see you. 739 00:45:54,669 --> 00:45:56,796 How dedicated you are, how disciplined. 740 00:45:58,714 --> 00:45:59,714 Hey. 741 00:46:00,216 --> 00:46:03,469 You have the courage to follow your curiosity. 742 00:46:03,552 --> 00:46:05,054 Okay, enough. 743 00:46:05,137 --> 00:46:07,282 And you put up with my tendency to go on. 744 00:46:07,307 --> 00:46:08,617 That, I do. 745 00:46:12,561 --> 00:46:14,772 I am truly delighted to be in your life. 746 00:46:25,658 --> 00:46:26,658 Come on. 747 00:46:31,038 --> 00:46:32,038 Come on. 748 00:46:45,761 --> 00:46:47,096 Hold that thought. 749 00:48:29,281 --> 00:48:30,324 What's wrong? 750 00:48:31,909 --> 00:48:32,993 You don't like it? 751 00:48:36,622 --> 00:48:37,832 No, I love it. 752 00:49:26,839 --> 00:49:27,923 Are you okay? 753 00:49:33,053 --> 00:49:34,096 It's weird. 754 00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:39,018 This? 755 00:49:40,311 --> 00:49:42,188 It's just... not you. 756 00:49:46,692 --> 00:49:49,028 Yeah, Holden. That's the point. 757 00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,187 synced & corrected by PopcornAWH www.addic7ed.com